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People don't want to play Supports

Tentacle Love··96 votes·7,416 views

Let's look at why.

  1. In league there are 3 lanes and one jungle, for 4 sources of income across 5 players. Whoever ends up the odd one out always ends up feeling like they're giving up something so that the rest of their team can take a shot at being the star. ...because they ARE.

  2. Playing support is hard. You have less resources to work with and your champion pool is much smaller, and the champions you do play with don't get to do the awesome things for you that they do for other players. (Unless you "become the carry now") Your whole existence in the game revolves around other people.

  3. Playing support is thankless, with very few exceptions. When a Bard ult nails three players and catches them out, it's a big damn moment to shine. When Thresh lands The Full Combo™, it's his big damn moment, but in both of those moments, it's the other players who clean up. Outside of moments like these, the game doesn't do much to make supports feel welcome.

  4. Which is probably the heart of the problem. The game is explicitly designed such that you want gold to be a more awesome teammate and one teammate always gets the shaft, so the game explicitly tries to hold back supports.

Now let's look at the more minor issues.

a) Every time that a champion ends up being a very strong support pick, they get nerfed to hell, to prevent that support pick from being strong, which nerfs them in lane as well. (Goodbye Miss Fortune, we hardly knew you) It's either a retooling to force them back into their lane where they belong, or a retooling to force them into support and away from lane. Neither one makes anyone happy.

b) Expectations are low for supports in general. "What are you complaining about? You get free ELO every game from just queuing up as support, everyone else is doing all the work"

c) When you did special streams for lane specific views during LCS and worlds, you had "Jungler Stream" and "Top Lane Matchup" and then you had "Bot Lane Matchup." ADC's felt like they were being forced to share their time with supports, and supports felt like they got nothing. It's a little too meta.

d) It's depressing just to TALK about this treatment. (take a break if you need to)

So let's brainstorm some things we can do to improve the play experience of supports. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

188 Comments

LoomberFoot58 votes

i main support and I see playing it as being a part of the secret service, whenever you do something great and save lots of people no one noticed you but if you fail and people die then everyone notices you.

Eevee In A Jar6 votes

Then there are times when supports do this

https://youtu.be/waYn8hw8nfI

Rivuo8 votes

[{quoted}](name=Eevee In A Jar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qvIGm43j,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2016-10-28T18:40:58.712+0000)

Then there are times when supports do this

https://youtu.be/waYn8hw8nfI

Watching Shens Q damage........ I cant believe riot nerfed it............ thats so fuckin pitiful

Eevee In A Jar1 votes

To be fair that's against a VERY fed Nasus. I honestly believe Shen's Q did too much damage. Every time I supported Shen, I would end up in a 1v2 skirmish as my ADC would back off from a losing trade. Then they'd rejoin seeing that I'm outdueling 1v2. Shen's Q currently I feel like is at a balanced damage. It's not strong enough where it's a problem but strong enough that Shen can still duel with a lot of his old counters and compete. Once max leveled, against ADC's and most supports who aren't rushing armor stacks will die pretty fast.

Rivuo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Eevee In A Jar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qvIGm43j,comment-id=0007000000010000,timestamp=2016-11-11T06:50:42.037+0000)

To be fair that's against a VERY fed Nasus. I honestly believe Shen's Q did too much damage. Every time I supported Shen, I would end up in a 1v2 skirmish as my ADC would back off from a losing trade. Then they'd rejoin seeing that I'm outdueling 1v2. Shen's Q currently I feel like is at a balanced damage. It's not strong enough where it's a problem but strong enough that Shen can still duel with a lot of his old counters and compete. Once max leveled, against ADC's and most supports who aren't rushing armor stacks will die pretty fast.

Everything... does too much damage.... to an adc....

The reason people hate blitz not because the hook, but because the hook does 200, the ult does 330, and the knockup is 130.

You are technically solod at that point

Eevee In A Jar1 votes

Yes but as I mentioned I can 1v2 them at like lvl 2. That shouldn't happen. Shen should destroy ADC that can't kite him late game but not early and in skirmish against ADC. Also I lane Shen too and his Q simply did way too much damage against some handed counters (not hard counters but they still countered Shen).

N Pelosi19 votes

I like to queue support for queue time speed. But I don't play support, I play "support".

Tentacle Love33 votes

[{quoted}](name=N Pelosi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qvIGm43j,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-10-28T16:30:13.714+0000)

I like to queue support for queue time speed. But I don't play support, I play "support".

Velkoz : "I see what you did there."

And A Real Hiero3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Love Tentacle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qvIGm43j,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-10-28T16:32:57.213+0000)

Velkoz : "I see what you did there."

Velkoz Only the bellest of bozzes.

Craft Zeppelin2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bel Boz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qvIGm43j,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-28T16:41:12.281+0000)

Velkoz Only the bellest of bozzes.

our god and saviour who can carry bot solo, cute purple octopus, with his golden skin. ramen god.

notice me Sin pi3 votes

as a supp main, i actually play either support or "support" depending on the team comp.

If my team decides full AD team comp is the best idea ever, then im definitely playing Lux Annie Brand Veigar Velkoz Zyra Morgana "support" instead of real support

Ark Sorcerer1 votes

I do the same thing too but my champ pool isn't as big.

The only thing with your "Support" is that Morgana, Lux and Zyra are actually support champions. They are secondary supports. To make this more accurate, it should be: Support- Primary supporting champions. 'Support'- Secondary Support champions. "Support" - Off meta Supports--- Miss Fortunate (Like how did that work in Worlds?), Brand, Veigar; basically any champion that is not classified as support and is not in the meta.

Ariel the Cruel3 votes

(Like how did that work in Worlds?)

I don't watch LCS. But if I were to take a guess, they did it to achieve a specific goal and knew what they were doing. Which is a far cry from all the sheep that make me regret every game I don't support these last few days.

SH Azykan3 votes

they picked ashe+mf bot lane specifically to wreck the enemy zyra support. basically mf make it rain > Ashe arrow > MF ult = dead immobiles every time

tempname0754759319 votes

coming from a support main; gold is not the problem - unless you're new to support. i started playing support when sightstone didn't exist and there was no ward cap. you were an actual ward bot, spending ALL of your money on them and placing them EVERYWHERE (i actually kind of miss these days, lighting the rift up like a christmas tree was fun.) nowadays you have fantastic gold generation, sightstone, and a warding cap. it's never been better for supports in the gold department, and it's not uncommon to see carry items anymore thanks to AP scaling utility. if they were to up support's gold generation anymore - oh boy, just wait until you see Jannas with Rabadons at 25 minutes throwing out 500 HP shields every ~5 seconds. then you'll be complaining. (Edit: forgot to mention how much dumber Brand, Velkoz, Zyra & crew would be with increased gold generation. we'd see 2 mid laners even more than we do now.)

the problem with supports is the XP difference & damage increase. many games i've been level 12-13 while the entire game is 18 (not counting the enemy support.) and with damage being increased across the boards it's not surprising (anymore) to get hit by some 1200 range CC from fog of war and die instantly to anything or anybody. what they need to do is give us back that one mastery that gave us XP if you were with a higher level ally, whether it's in the form of a mastery or added onto a gold generation/sightstone, i don't care. it would help out a ton.

unrelated note: i've seen alot more support players lately; more then i've seen in a long time.. when i pick support/fill and get mid.. yeah.

Magearna6 votes

As a fellow support main, I must say: you are spot on. It's frustrating having to say "can you please come with me to ward," but when no one does and you can't ward because you risk being blown up like a hot air balloon, they complain that you aren't warding enough. That would be mitigated if we had the xp, the level, and the extra stats that it provides. But I digress.

TL;DR I agree with the XP difference point :P

Ariel the Cruel13 votes

Vayne We need vision. Slave, ward dragon. And don't die this time. Soraka Then come with me. I'm 5 levels behind the rest of you. Vayne F no. I'm farming. Soraka Then ward it yourself. Vayne Do I look like a support to you? Soraka (>_>)

{ Your support is evolving! } Soraka -----> TahmKench Ok. Time for some behavioral modification.

{ Enemy double kill! }

And I Said Dance4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qvIGm43j,comment-id=001100010000,timestamp=2016-10-29T03:58:46.844+0000)

Vayne We need vision. Slave, ward dragon. And don't die this time. Soraka Then come with me. I'm 5 levels behind the rest of you. Vayne F no. I'm farming. Soraka Then ward it yourself. Vayne Do I look like a support to you? Soraka (>_>)

{ Your support is evolving! } Soraka -----> TahmKench Ok. Time for some behavioral modification.

{ Enemy double kill! }

PREACH

Resonance x LFT14 votes

Also, let's discuss the matter of itemization. <generic boring support item> item 2049 item 3190 item 3117 oritem 3009 if you're AP damage item 3116 if you're tank item 3110 if you're Janna or Soraka item 3504 or item 3041.

There's almost nothing unique about itemization on support. It makes the game stale.

Bardful1 votes

item 2301 item 3401 item 3092 item 3800 item 3050 (Though prob not viable) item 3123 item 3069

I only write this because they are adding more support items in 6.22 so I feel they are addressing this issue.

Ark Sorcerer1 votes

I have seen the items from other YouTubers who relayed the info and I do not like it. It will be just as stale as right now. That is why after my stupid Sightstone and upgraded income item, I build AP. I go for whatever items that increase my damage since my marksmen won't cuss me out for damage dealing items.

Bardful2 votes

I don't know I like some of the support items so much I have taken them into the jungle. Still I just wanted to say they see the problem too and are trying to address it. These items are a step in the right direction and I hope as season 7 continues they further try to push utility in all items especially support.

Manwalrus11 votes

You're pretty spot on for the most part because playing support is sometimes like an abusive relationship but my one gripe is that you implied MF support is good. 9 times out of 10 It really isn't people play it without understanding what is good about it, being that it's only good with Ashe or Jhin vs a Caitlyn-Zyra antifun lane, people playing MF support has brought her winrate down over 6% on it's own and seeing people play it makes me sad

Knight Devout12 votes

What he meant is that if something is playable as a support thanks to a gimmick, and Riot decidedes that gimmick is not core to that champ, that champ will get nerfed in order to avoid it being playable as a support.

Battlecast Sona9 votes

I've been a support main since season 1 and I have to say that the biggest problem is the HUGE lack of support champions. I mean, I had a party when Riot guaranteed at least one support a year, and that's just downright pathetic. There is no other role in the game that gets so few new champs and so little focus paid to whether they're actually having a good game experience, and every time we get new support items they're almost instantly nerfed because they're abused my mid.

I almost wish Riot would just make some items require certain masteries or something so supports could have strong support items without them being stolen by midlaners. That, I feel, is one of the major problems (especially with AP supports, but kinda with supports in general).

Awesomedude88882 votes

I almost wish Riot would just make some items require certain masteries or something so supports could have strong support items without them being stolen by midlaners.

How about Riot make item 2049 (and/or its upgrades) a required item for other support items? This way, not only would it be unable to be abused by midlaners (who shouldn't be building SS anyways), but also forces supports to build sightstones.

Azure Hamster6 votes

I main ADC, I secondary Support. I feel itemization is not super interesting, as I tend to play Leona. But I find the role is interesting.

Since I'm not worried about last hitting all the damned time, I can watch the map to help people know what's going on. I can help make play calls because I have some extra processor time in my head to analyze where the game is.

It's not super-exciting like ADC or JG are, but it's still an interesting role to play. The advent of the gold items went a long way to making this better.

I agree with the points about sightstone and how it hampers character development. I hope to see them make some adjustments there.

Caitlyn

TheStevenWu6 votes

Idk what elo OP is, but everything he types screams "I'm silver/bronze and do not have a full understanding of the game." Not to be mean... but

  1. Play support is not hard because you have less resources. Supports are hard because it's the role that requires the most brain power; and most people are stupid. In fact, champions suited for the support don't really need gold to accomplish their objective. What is their objective? To get their ADC fed. How? By setting up the offensive and defensive plan of the lane, whether your are positioning yourself to engage or zone to CC locking the opponent or outplaying them.

  2. Playing support is thankless 50% of the time. That's because people are self-centered. The enemy team knows why the lost. They lost because the enemy support engaged at the right moment that lead the team to an ACE. In higher elos, supports get a lot more credit as they understand better why they win or lose.

  3. There's a reason why supports are always being re-balanced. Because every good player knows the true carries of the team: The jungler and the support. The jungler and support leads the team to victory; everyone else are just follow up. Companies are successful because of their officers, not because of their employees.

  4. Expectations are low for support only in low elo, because low elo players do not understand how to play the game effectively. Support is arguably the most important role second only to the jungler.

Why do people not want to play support? Because people are selfish and violent. People would rather go 20/0/0 and lose the game than go 0/0/20 and win the game. That's just how humans are. They're shortsighted and only look to themselves.

CerealBoxOfDoom6 votes

#5 the impact of support is not easily visible. But when they don't make an impact you are blind and can see nothing to make any judgement.

Its like if you asked a person with good vision and a blind person if they appreciated the beauty of nature. Nature is a big fucking deal and stuff but we take it for granted when we can see it and blind people have probably never seen it before and probably get pissed off at it a lot, especially at trees and vines.

BastionKross5 votes

The best thing would be to make the number of sources of gold equal to the number of players. Imagine a rift where it was only 4v4, or that the jungle was large enough to benefit two champions. That would quickly put an end to this problem once and for all, but that would require huge changes and monumental retooling.

The next best (and much easier) thing you can do is have items be the fifth gold source. We already have that, but the gold gen is gimped because if it was a roughly equal gold source other roles would buy them and benefit from two sources at once (frost queen was stolen by midlane for a while). So you have to find some way of restricting gold gen items to just the support role, which is very difficult. You could do the jungler way and make a summoner spell requirement like jungle items require smite, or you could have CSing temporarily disable the gold gen; but those are imperfect solutions. What if a laner takes the summoner spell anyway (remember top lane smite in season 5), or what if the support needs to CS to hold the lane or clear a wave from tower or accidentally takes CS from AoE abilities?

Once you solve the problem of not having a fifth gold source, most of the support issues should vanish since they can actually afford to buy big ticket carry items and start directly carrying games instead of indirectly carrying games. Support Brand is popular right now because he's a support that can carry, much the same with support MF.

Additional gold income would also open up the support role to more diversity, since champions who may not have great base damage or built in utility could then become more viable there.

Chamuel855 votes

With Aegis gone (ok it isn't, they just took the HP and moved it to a shield... kind of since the shield isn't always available), I'm not sure what to do on support for an MR item for myself. I already find myself INCREDIBLY squishy against Mages and AP because I'm levels behind.
So you're:

  1. Levels behind
  2. Down a lot of gold (can't buy damage easily or tank easily)

I'm a support main and I love support (aka being a play maker). Just feels hard sometimes

Hyperiön1 votes

Just grab some of the new Health tank items that are super OPOP.

Then you can get like an abyssal or something (depending on the champion.) I could see sunfire coming back into the support itemization.

The locket and aegis might still be worth getting, but idk if they are as important as before

Chamuel852 votes

Yeah my worry is though that they didn't really release anything for non shielding/healing support ranges that don't get as tanky.......................Just checked PBE. Abyssal Sceptor seems interesting. Buff to AP's killing tanks. Nerf to killing squishies. While it is listed under "Support Items" i find it curious that supports are normally paired with the ADC so 10% buff to magic damage. I guess Idk. It seems like itemizing on low income might be in effect less HP but idk we'll see. I"ll wait and see.

Unstoppable Monk4 votes

Sometimes I think they need an item that stuffs the ADC inside of the turret for a good minute so that derpwad doesn't die under the enemy turret 1v2ing because reasons.

Leon Etoile3 votes

I would play support more often if I wasn't guaranteed to get it every game.

Previous seasons I was a mid/supp pref main. Had to change that this year after like getting nothing but supp.

Teridax683 votes

I completely agree with #1. Right now, I think one of the biggest issues with supports is that there's this all-around "be seen and not heard" mentality, where supports are expected to stop themselves from interacting with many of the game's most basic systems (e.g. gold and experience, and by extension many items that would otherwise interest them, especially AP items), just so that they can play servant to others, namely by going out to ward for the entire team, which is a burden everyone should be sharing equally among themselves. Supports basically have no presence in the in-game world until they jump in to help a teammate, which isn't a good feeling.

As for #2, and #3, though, while I agree that playing support is difficult, especially in non-premades where there's less player synergy overall, I don't think support plays are entirely ignored. If a support makes a critical play, it tends to have an impact everyone else can feel and appreciate, and people will recognize the difficulty in setting up kills and saving allies. There are probably some players who don't acknowledge support plays, but I don't think it's all that different from the players saying that X role takes no skill, something that often gets directed at top laners and marksmen, too.

While I think the new support items will make supporting feel more fun, I think supports will eventually need to be placed on the same gold and experience bar as everyone else, even if they still don't take CS, and their items should follow suit. At no point should an AP-scaling caster support consider swapping out their support build for a mage build, simply because the latter provides more raw power. Balancing a champion around two different positions is difficult enough without also having to consider two completely different levels of gold income, and leveling that difference would likely make Riot's job easier, and make support and mage players happier.

Adding to this, I think support items need to genuinely enhance their power: not only are supports isolated from a lot of non-support itemization due to their lesser gold income, the items they have often give them a heap of stats that don't feel all that desirable individually, rarely synergize with the item's core effect and often feel completely secondary to the item's niche or purpose. There still isn't really a dedicated support stat (mana regen doesn't really count), despite the fact that supports have this unique strength above all other classes: utility. If supports had a dedicated utility-empowering stat, they'd finally get to have strong, desirable stats on items without making them too generically good on other classes, which is a current problem with AP, and they'd finally get to feel like their itemization truly enhances the power of their own kit, instead of just giving them more actives to play with (which is cool, but has its limitations). We already sort of have this in the form of Forbidden Idol's bonus to healing and shields, but support utility goes beyond that, and takes many more forms (usually boosts to various stats).

In the longer term, I'd also like supports to have more freedom of movement, and it'd be nice to see more supports in the jungle and in other lanes, and not just bot lane. There's often confusion with the support class and the support role, and one of the reasons behind that is that the support class is almost completely restricted to bot lane, alongside a marksman. Meanwhile, every other class has at least two different positions to choose from, and it's not rare to see more than one member of any other class on the same team. If supports were given that same freedom, more players would be able to enjoy supports, and it would also allow bot lane to be a little less restrictive: if more supports were popular enough in the jungle, for example, it would be okay for more mages or tanks to go into bot lane, since they wouldn't crowd the support class out of the game. If supports were allowed to duo with top and mid laners, diversity would increase exponentially on so many levels: supports would get to interact with classes besides marksmen in lane, non-marksmen would get to enjoy the full duo lane experience, and both the compositional and positional metas would be significantly less rigid.

dark100dark1002 votes

True. It would be great if support could be a secondary jungler in some way (which is already their role in pro level).

JDB8eoX8x03 votes

Give us Aura Support items back so we can have fun buffing our ADCs.

meroboth1 votes

or add more items like item 3050 so we can buff the adc but is isnt buffing your entire team

it be lìke that3 votes

i dont agree with this at all, when a support makes good plays teams always recognize it or say something positive. the issue imo is, there are far more bad supports than good ones.

mf is a terrible support (queue the angry people who have played it 4 times now) unless you are a 5 man premade, you just hurt your team. Ive had godly nami/janna/thresh win us games by being playmakers.

the issue imo is supports who use their skills at the most elementary level and complain they are underappreciated, THOSE are the ones getting freelo.

comes down to what kind of Soraka are you? do you stand behind your adc all game putting down your ipad you are currently using to complain that you as a support are underappreciated just to throw a quick heal out? or do you try to poke and set up plays with your silence/root and be active in the lane?

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

This.

I love support becuase I when I make the good plays people notice. If not my ADC then somebody.

My favorite supports are Taric and Soraka.

Taric's great because, well he's Taric. Nothing he does isn't flashy, and you will see every bit of contribution he does. And that five man ult that wins the teamfight is so satisfying to watch...

the issue imo is supports who use their skills at the most elementary level and complain they are underappreciated, THOSE are the ones getting freelo. comes down to what kind of are you? do you stand behind your adc all game putting down your ipad you are currently using to complain that you as a support are underappreciated just to throw a quick heal out? or do you try to poke and set up plays with your silence/root and be active in the lane?

Thank you so much for this. As somebody who plays Soraka I cannot stand when people call her braindead and no use. I mean, of course she seems stupid simple when all you do is afk heal. The good Sorakas know better, and nothing feels better than to throw an ult to help my toplaner get that little bit of health he needed to beat his lane opponent and get a leg up in lane. The peels with Soraka are among the least expected because for some reason people forget that it roots as well.

Paladin 0f Life2 votes

I enjoy CCing ppl. But when you que for it and 90% of the time get it it's not as fun to que for it if you like variety

Hryna2 votes

Support is really hard to play. Very subtle specificities and game knowledge. I'm not touching it until I get to higher tiers.

NahDogSolRahn2 votes

I think we should change the whole dynamic of botlane so that ADCs don't need to be babysat and Supports have a larger impact on the game. For this to happen, masteries would need to be largely updated to include the second row of single selection masteries, a tweak to the Bandit mastery that ties in with Sightstone items. Keeping the one gold for minions slain by allies, but the second part could be something like double gold income when alone*only active if you have a Sightstone item. On the items side, it could have the unique passive of "passive xp gain, but lower kill xp. *Bandit mastery required"

Then we could micro buff ADCs to have better survivability and Supports could be dedicated roamers. RIOT could actually let Supports be supportive of the team for the whole game, not just after 20 minutes. At this point the issue of this kind of thing being abuse will come up, just tie Sightstone into the Exhaust summoner spell. That would mean anyone who wants to use this must give up the option of Dangerous Game, whatever comes in as the third option in that mastery tier, an item slot, and a summoner spell to get passive xp and greater gold.

Once everything is in place, balance as needed and you will have Supports who are accually level with the team which equates to better survivability when caught in duals and fights. ADCs who get full xp, have thier own lane, have a better time against dives and 1v2s, could also teach them to ward more. Finally Supports can help on the opposite side of the map while the JG is contesting objectives and there is a wider range of vision for the whole team. [slayer-jinx-wink]

BakedLotion2 votes

it's not fun to be someone's bitch the entire game. people want to do things on their own without relying on others.

Existential Bard2 votes

I actually enjoy the support role. My only issues are that it is really fun when your team is doing well, but really frustrating when your team is struggling. In the latter scenario you just don't have much impact because you can't really carry the game as a support as you just lack the damage output in most cases.

My second issue is that I feel sightstone items are too over priced. As bard support I would much rather rush medallion and then start building a zzrot portal as this offers better stats earlier on. It's rough when sightstone only offers health and vision, when supports really need some stat boosts early to help be more impactful. I would be more apt to build sight stone if the sight stone itself offered Magic Resist, Armor, and Health. Maybe they could also allow it to give us passive gold as well for every time we placed wards.

Swaid2 votes

Time to earn some downvotes.

Playing Support in Heroes of the Storm is way more rewarding and entertaining because there is no 'income' to split.

That being said, I have pulled off shit as a support that gets people to thank me in League, but it doesn't come very often.

Treyhova2 votes

I'm that rare player that mained Support before ADC (Really because Jhin came out). I know that being a Support is hard, and I try to give as much thanks that I can to the fuckers that carry my ass in lane. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs] Good Job Supports

Bardful1 votes

I don't play support for two reasons. in ranked because if I put it as my secondary I will get it. I play support jungler nunu and I play shaco like a support in the jungle but, I put top as secondary when I play ranked and I play bard top. Besides I love roaming and roaming from bot lane is only in small windows which junglers do it 70% of the game. In normals because I might fight one of the ani-fun characters in bot lane. Especially blitz he is anti fun and I own him but I refuse to play him bc I can play shaco, yasuo or any other form of abuse on an enemy player but, I draw the line on blitz.

Bardful4 votes

Also miss fortune is probably not getting nerfed because of her playing sup. It is because she is pretty broken right now as an adc.

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