Aatrox, where is he on the priority list?

Vicarious117··3 votes·2,936 views

So Aatrox is a lot of fun, in my opinion, but it's a pretty well known fact that he's absolutely weak as shiiiiiiiit! The new devourer helps him out, but due to his horrendously low defensive base stats until you're like 3 items in most champs will just decimate you before you get a chance to really utilize the sated devourer buff.

On top of him being generally weak, he doesn't fit anything, like his kit seems to be designed for a tanky initiator with sustain, but his base stats are similar to those of an ADC and he requires so many offensive items to ever have any use that he can't really be a full tank at any point of the game, aside from beastly mid game 1v1s if you're not behind. And then ofc other duel heavy champs like Irelia and Olaf still win 1v1s against him more often then not, but they're faaaaaar tankier with a lot more ways of teamfighting as well, so there is very little point of ever playing Aatrox at all.

So he's weak and has no true role.... like I get that he's new-ish and you probably don't want to change a champ that hasn't been around for all that long before you change others that need it far more, like Poppy, Taric, and Yorick, but Aatrox needs SOMETHING. One thing, is why did you guys ever nerf his passive straight into the ground not long after his release? He was a good jungler with good ganking and dueling, and he actually had some favorable match ups in top lane that didn't require a constant amount of outplaying just to survive, then "poof" you fuck him over and he now is a low tier jungler and has an extremely small pool of even slightly favorable match ups in top lane.

I get that buffing a champ with a kit like his is risky, due to his immense sustain potential, so rework him a bit, make him a juggernaut as well, his fucking kit is designed for it anyway, just do SOMETHING! It's so sad to see this champ just fall to the wayside of complete uselessness.

33 Comments

MLDzXnRRR3 votes

He was probably made to be fighter like Trynda, but they decided that he was probably too op - manaless, heals, has mobility, has some form of cc - slow and knockup, - has AS steroid and AOE nuke, has poke. If his base stats weren't shit, he would be OP. Give him Trynda's base stats and he becomes permaban in Soloq.

Aatrox: Health 538 – 1983 (loses 15 % of current hp for Q+E)

Trynd: Health 626 – 2292

Xin: Health 591 – 2070

Irelia: Health 607 – 2137

Olaf: Health 597 – 2178

Warwick: Health 593 – 2259

All these can be played as lifesteal tanks and all are better than Aatrox.

Shénzhì1 votes

Can't this be fixed? I just had two ideas for Aatrox's kit that could bring back normal Base HP Stats

#Scaling Life Heal #1 Blood Lament passive attached to [W]. These are stacks that progressively upscale and downscale with each use of Blood Thirst or Blood Price, increasing and decreasing effectiveness of [W] on-hit effects. These stacks do not decay. These stacks are statistically adapted to new Base HP Stats. Granted half stacks at spawn. With buffed normal Base Stats this idea can work to counter those buffs.

  • Each Blood Thirst [W] that lands +stacks 'Blood Lament'. These stacks do not decay.
  • Blood Thirst: Each successive 3rd-hit Heal is improved competitively.
  • (The stacks double when below 50% Health)
  • (Granted full Blood Lament stack at Blood Well revival)
  • Each Blood Price [W] that lands -stacks 'Blood Lament'. The stacks are deducted.
  • Blood Price: uses Blood Thirst's stacks to do increased damage on each 3rd hit.
  • (The stack deduction is doubled above 50% Aatrox HP)
  • (The self-infliction is increased above 50% Aatrox HP)
  • (Granted full Blood Lament stack at Blood Well revival)

Like Darius and like juggernauts, he works to become powerful and clean-up the battle. Get too close and he'll consume you. Aatrox now reinforces decision-making to either damage output or self-sustain, or both depending current circumstance (just like before) but because their scaling effectiveness, he's still risking death (just like before).

So what have I just said? This idea with normal and consistently acceptable Base HP stats, Aatrox's 3rd-Hit HP+ is weak initially but as he works to earn more stacks he can potentially clean up a battle like Darius. Heavy flaw is as he builds more attack speed he'd gain stacks quicker, and so the [W] stacks would increase per level. (e.g. Leve l 14; 14 stacks). Another problem is having to look more around the screen at Blood Well, Blood Lament Stacks, positioning, mini-map awareness - Possibly too taxing in this sense.


#Scaling Life Deal #2 (Think of the new Ashe's %CritChance incorporated into her new passive Frost Shot)

This idea proposes the use of Life-Steal and/or Spell Vamp. calculated into one value named 'Blood Lament' to increase the build-up of Blood Well and increase the cooldown decay of inactive Blood Well, depending if it's Active or Inactive. This requires Health Point stats which may lead him to becoming a Juggernaut.

Blood Well [P] now uses Life-Steal and Spell Vamp. Runes, Masteries and Items. These two facilitates the hemomancing properties of the Darkin Blade:

  • Increases self-infliction damage from abilities.
  • Increases Blood Well reward from self-infliction abilities.
  • Applies Blood Lament (Spell Vamp.) on Massacre [R]. (More champs; more heal)
  • [W] Blood Thirst 3rd-hit healing will item-scale from Blood Lament.

The increased self-infliction may bring about increased risks at mid/late game, and so the Blood Well cooldown decay is adjusted/scaled to compensate.

  • Blood Well revival cooldown decay increased by LifeSteal and Spell Vamp stats.

Basically, he gains Blood Well faster based on Life-Steal and Spell Vamp equated into one %value named 'Blood Lament'. When he uses an ability, he gains Blood Well. With increased Blood Lament, those chunks of Blood Well and self-infliction increase. All these are improved and managed by increasing Health Points (same as before?). Increased attack speed means increased self-healing to manage and compensate the initial HP loss. Aatrox's item builds will be kept more or less the same:

  • Attack Damage.
  • Attack Speed.
  • Life Steal / (new) Spell Vamp.
  • +Health.
  • +Resists.

This juggernaut Aatrox new item builds can now prioritize item 3124 "finally!.."

With this he becomes a juggernaut .. I think. May need some tweaks. (e.g. Blood Well resource decays sooner and quicker out-of-combat). (e.g. mobility changes of [Q] Dark Flight) (e.g. 'Blood Lament' (LS & SV) will scale Blood Thirst's heal; Base HP Stat increase) (e.g. *****Blood Price [W] may need to deny on-hit life-steals)

So what have I just said? Aatrox is one that depends on attack speed for his 3rd-Hit [W] on-hit abilities to deal or heal. This idea reinforces that dependency of his Blood Well. In each battle instance he'll start off slow and steady but will escalate much more quickly depending on 'Blood Lament'. Aatrox can capitalize if he's allowed to! What is kept is the same risk assessments and reluctance without an active Blood Well, and the same vulnerability to crowd-control is also kept. What's new is scaling greater self-infliction and functions to manage HP fluctuation. It's capturing the idea of his balance above and below 50% health; staying alive or dealing damage but to do so requires more Base HP Stats for these actions to be more reliable.

All about that Attack Speed, Max Health and 'Blood Lament' (LS & SV).

Additionally, both Life-Steal and Spell Vamp combined as 'Blood Lament' could make a well-placed Massacre [R] more intimidating (because sudden heal) and thus Blood Well revive becomes more reliable. Like juggernaut Darius as an example, take him down before Aatrox becomes a problem for everyone.

Problem with this idea is maybe branching into new builds from which extensive rework may be needed. By expanding build paths instead of narrowing may make item choices more difficult (e.g. the ambiguity between Ravenous Hydra (life-steal) or Titanic Hydra (health points)). If Blood Thirst [W] keeps its +%AD it shouldn't be too difficult. Additionally there could be a thematic conflict or deviation. 'Blood Lament' may be more of a Warwick thing.


Thanks for reading :D Read of other ways to improve Aatrox: [Effects & Animations Update]

Vicarious1171 votes

I think those ideas might not be so bad and could work out in making Aatrox a bit more viable.

However I was thinking, change his kit so he isn't auto attack reliant, make him an ability user that grants sustain. Like change his Q so when he lands he can heal based on something like damage done or he leaves a pool for a very short time that heals him over time as he stands in it, then change his E so it costs more health to cast but has a life stealing or spell vamping effect of it's own based on damage done to anything or just champs. He'd need a new W, probably put his AS steroid there instead so he can build more tanky and not have to build up offensive items before he can do his job, could even add in one of the effects from his current W for the duration, probably the healing portion. Then his ult could be changed into a teamfighting style ult so it fits his lore more, I was thinking something like Hades' ult from Smite with more life stealing/spell vamping properties.

He'd lose carry potential, but he'd be a very viable tank/initiator, as well as still a decent duelist, just not so dependent on items and auto attacks.

Vicarious1171 votes

Exactly, that's what I was saying when I said buffing him is very risky, and why I think he needs to to be changed slightly to better fit an identity so he doesn't just become them all.

Maple Crusader2 votes

He has no clear identity still. What is he supposed to be? A melee carry, tanky fighter, or a tank?

RyzeRework1 votes

I feel like he fits thw roll of duelest his laning is actually pretty strong and so is his ganks all you really need is devour 1 l ifesteal item go the rest tank and never die

Vicarious1171 votes

You'd be surprised at how quickly he dies with 4 tank items, one of those having to be boots ofc. And his laning is far from strong, he has good sustain but he has to be able to keep hitting the minions, most the common top laners atm will just harass him off the minions and his dueling is still atrocious compared to all the other duelist top laners. Yeah he can out duel someone like a Maokai, big woop, Maokai and champs like him don't fall off super hard and after one item will be able to survive any attempt at killing them from Aatrox. And his ganking is OK, but he is very reliant on either being the counter ganker or never being counter ganked, if he ever gets counter ganked his dead, passive and everything. He also requires his team to do well in lane, he's extremely one directional and has very little sustain power against damage from enemy champs early before a couple items so he has a tendency to implode, unlike other junglers with good early ganking, who also don't have to farm as much as an early ganker who also needs devourer stacks.

RyzeRework1 votes

Lol idk if you ever hit by his 3rd w in lane but it takes almost half your hp and he his regeneration passive idk I've never died as a fed aatrox like most champions he is situational and even then if you get btork blood thruster top lane then get sv and Hotmail then get boots of your choosing plus either ga or frozen mallet you will not die lol that's like almost a 1v5 aatrox build

yOABRammjB2 votes

What idiot gets hit by 3 Ws and doesnt trade back...? Dont want to sound desrespectfull but I see u are Silver 1 and that shit may work there but even after plat elo I doubt that shit works.

RyzeRework1 votes

So a plat doesnt understand aatrox can hit a minion 2 times then a champion? Idk who elo boosted you but if u can't understand simple concepts you don't deserve your rank

yOABRammjB1 votes

that was my mistake,I didnt know that his W works like that,no need to go apeshit on me now and im in diamond but w/e,my mistake.

RyzeRework1 votes

Lol my bad idk I was gold 4 and had a loss streak to sliver 2 and now I'm going back up so my ranking is a little touchy lol but yeah woth devour an aatrox with botrk gets 100+ hp every 2 hits lol

Vicarious1171 votes

But still implodes in a matter of seconds.

Vicarious1171 votes

1v5.... He will implode 3 times in a quick row, while being hard kited by the carries and the only ones you'll be able to come close to killing in such a situation.

And his W doesn't do THAT much damage, unless you're building straight AD instead of AS as well, in which case you fall off earlier and harder then Panth and Lee combined.

And ofc you never die as a fed Aatrox, welcome to being fed on anyone, but getting fed as such a horrendous champ with next to no half decent match ups is the problem.

As for him being "situational," he's VERY rarely ever in one of those situations especially in the current meta, or the last two/three as well, that the numerous champs that are better at his one job in all of those situations who aren't as situational themselves are always a better option.

RyzeRework1 votes

Lol 2 life steal items and that tank build i was joking when I meant 1v5 but you can prolly zone off 3 members of the enemy team in teamfights lol full ad aatrox never works unless you can get super far ahead he's a very good champion just underated

yOABRammjB2 votes

His laining is shit,his Q can be dodged by a half retarded snail,his W is rly shit,and his E makes no sense since he aint initiating shit with those stats and his passive is like pure garbage now.He has no idea what he is trying to do...

RyzeRework1 votes

His w at max level does a base damanage of 300 attack damanage his w and e are made to chase and kite lol we got an aatrox hater who doesnt know how to play him rip

Vicarious1171 votes

Says the silver 1 with a total of 5 ranked Aatrox games in the past two whole seasons.......

You also should be maxing his W second, so by the time it's maxed you'll already have fallen off, that extra damage every third attack will rarely get off, especially since by that time you'll mostly be using the healing to survive your fights and engages since you're always squishy as fuck.

RyzeRework1 votes

Lol I don't play aatrox cause he's to easy to play I've only lost 1 game with him and with lifesteal you can have your w active and you'll kill them faster then they kill you and I don't understand why you can't accept building aatrox tanky makes him almost unkillable

Vicarious1171 votes

Because he's one of my mains and I can attest to him not being anywhere near unkillable, unless you're playing a bunch of morons ofc. And you've lost twice and only won 3 times, so that means nothing in either case.

yOABRammjB1 votes

He is ADC base stats top with Tank initiation spells and working best with new jungle items. QQ just kill it,he is suffering 2 much....sweg....

Vicarious1172 votes

They do need to kill it and start from the bottom up it seems, he's all over the fucking board atm, far too spread to ever be truly balanced as is.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

He may be quit weak,but he isn't shit if you mastered him like me

Vicarious1171 votes

I play him quite often as well, I enjoy his kit and if you're better then your opponents then you can still utilize him to decent effectiveness. But that doesn't alter his issues, they're still issues and there are other champs who do his job plus many more but much better.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

{quoted}

I play him quite often as well, I enjoy his kit and if you're better then your opponents then you can still utilize him to decent effectiveness. But that doesn't alter his issues, they're still issues and there are other champs who do his job plus many more but much better.

There are many unique play styles but you can't say any champion does better job than the other,unless you mean tanks which are natural to tank damage,or carries to deal damage.

Vicarious1171 votes

A duelist top laner with engage mechanics and viable splitpush potential. That's the one thing Aatrox can effectively do most the time, but common champs like Irelia and Olaf do ALL of those things better, then others like Tryndamere and Xin have much better and more reliable carry potential, and finally tank champs ofc initiate and tank faaaaar better then Aatrox does.

So yes I can easily say other champs do his job but far better lol

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

{quoted}

A duelist top laner with engage mechanics and viable splitpush potential. That's the one thing Aatrox can effectively do most the time, but common champs like Irelia and Olaf do ALL of those things better, then others like Tryndamere and Xin have much better and more reliable carry potential, and finally tank champs ofc initiate and tank faaaaar better then Aatrox does.

So yes I can easily say other champs do his job but far better lol

That's what you think. Vs competitive team,never engage as aatrox.

Vicarious1171 votes

EXACTLY! Therefore why does he have a kit designed for engaging but you can never actually engage? And due to his kit being designed like this the other duelists, with better dueling abilities, will usually win out in a 1v1 with him anyway, so he's not really that great at doing either of the things he is apparently designed to do.

He's not designed well, that's just a fact.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

{quoted}

EXACTLY! Therefore why does he have a kit designed for engaging but you can never actually engage? And due to his kit being designed like this the other duelists, with better dueling abilities, will usually win out in a 1v1 with him anyway, so he's not really that great at doing either of the things he is apparently designed to do.

He's not designed well, that's just a fact.

You are right,but he's not designed well to the playstyle riot wanted him to be,he fills different roles and my unique playstyle,whoever he can still be balanced but riot REALLY fucked up with the numbers

Vicarious1171 votes

There is not a single role he does that isn't done better by someone else. Ofc, besides the very rare scenario of fighting 1v1 against a low damage champ who doesn't kite, and I say rare cause not many people are dumb enough to try that without a lot of kiting involved. Anything besides that, someone else does better, and that's all caused by Riot's fuck up, that's what it means.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

{quoted}

There is not a single role he does that isn't done better by someone else. Ofc, besides the very rare scenario of fighting 1v1 against a low damage champ who doesn't kite, and I say rare cause not many people are dumb enough to try that without a lot of kiting involved. Anything besides that, someone else does better, and that's all caused by Riot's fuck up, that's what it means.

You are right,however I invented my own role: Mid game Massacre And I fulfill it very well

ScreamPaste1 votes

It's weird that people think Aatrox is bad.

http://champion.gg/champion/Aatrox/Top

Average win rate, and once you master him his win rate becomes pretty good, 55%, he just requires game and match up knowledge. He isn't a "pick whenever I feel like it" champion.

Vicarious1171 votes

I hate when people try to justify a champs balance based on average winrates. His winrate stats aren't accurate to his viability cause people only play him in specific match ups, and not very many of them, meaning he's more often then not only played in "viable" match ups and he still only gets a 55% winrate.

If he was played as often as the other duelist top laners his stats would be faaaaar worse, that's a guarantee.

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