@Riot, I really feel like %Health True Damage just shouldnt exist.

Over Innsmouth··28 votes·2,735 views

Or at least not in it's current state.

The issue with %health true damage is that you can't itemize against it, which could actually be made to work if you could play against it; ie - being able to dodge it/deny it, etc...

The problem is, the 2 out of three of the Champions that employ %health true damage (%HTD) apply it via autoattacks. Undodgable, free, point-click damage that you can't itemize against. You know what else makes that worse? The fact that both of these Champions have anti-escape mechanics.

Vayne has a spammable (albiet short) dash, and a passive MS buff when chasing Champion that triples during Final Hour. She also likes to build items with passive MS (item 3087 item 3046 ) and item 3153 active. Fiora has an even more spammable dash (wow 60% cdr on hitting anything), an AA-based slow, also has MS when she ults (when near her target) and typically likes to build BC for more MS. Her passive also grants even more MS upon triggering it.

Only a very small handful of Champions in this game can feasibly escape these two, and even then it takes some pretty good juking most of the time.

The problem with %HTD I'm getting at here, is that it's not inherently always awful to deal with. Look at Garen , I see/hear complaints directed at his %HTD very rarely. Let's look at it.

Garen is entirely melee, so you can just kite him. He has mobility, bu unlike Fiora though, his mobility comes in the form of one mediocre MS buff with a slow cleanse attached, though it's easy to just slow him after he uses Q and screw him over anyway. His %HTD can only actually affect one person on the enemy team at a time, and it's not the majority of his damage.

Basically, for Garen it's harder to apply, and it's also situational.

I like Vayne being this inescapable night hunter and being super scary lategame, but the issue arises when you tack on such a ridiculously strong mechanic on a Champion with little meaningful counterplay (read: don't be in range). You've come a long way in Champion design, surely there's something you could do for Vayne that'd retain her current power while stripping away her frustrating gameplay.

I like Fiora being "the Grand Duelist", someone who you should only feasibly be able to 1v1 if they are significantly worse than you or significantly behind. I do like her Vitals and how core they are to her gameplay. I do not like Vitals being %HTD. There's no reason it couldnt just be %health physical damage (maybe even ignoring a portion of armour) with the same fantasy fulfilled.

You know who would be super great and remain balanced/not frustrating with %HTD in their kit?

Velkoz , the so-called "True Damage Mage". It'd just apply on his passive rather than the current flat True Damage. Boom, healthy, counterplay-filled %HTD mechanics.

Does this...mean anything?

84 Comments

The Deckowner3 votes

The reason why Garen feels much less oppressive than vayne and fiora is:

  1. he has no spammable dashes and mobility(vayne 2 second tumble and free movement speed on passive, fiora has similar abilities and even shorter cd)
  2. his true dmg only applies in specific senirios(when target is low)
  3. he is completely melee
  4. he has no form of disengage/kiting

Kog also feels much easier to deal with than vayne and fiora desite him being a ranged champion because

  1. again, no spammable mobility
  2. he actually has to stand still to do dmg, which means he is very vulnerable.
NineTailedMystic1 votes

Garen actually applies true damage to the Villain no matter what. Basic attacks and every tick of his E do 1% of the Villains Max HP in True Damage and his ult does True Damage instead of Magic Damage regardless of how low they are. You just get a nice indicator saying "Hey, if you ult his guy, he's dead."

Sylverblitz2 votes

Vayne's Silver Bolts are not % true damage any more. That was changed a while back to flat damage per level of the skill. As for her duel potential and being very hard to escape from I like that part of her kit even when I'm the one trying to run away. You need strong peel and hard cc for her but I would hardly consider her impossible to escape from. Her big drawbacks are her relatively short auto attack range and being single target on all her abilities.

Over Innsmouth7 votes

http://imgur.com/fEemWpp

They actually removed the flat true damage component and added more %health true damage.

I'm not saying Vayne has no counterplay (though I am saying it's limited), I'm saying that %HTD shouldnt exist on such a straightforward kit.

Sylverblitz1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tides of Blood,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qb9QoMcf,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-05-30T13:32:11.956+0000)

http://imgur.com/fEemWpp

They actually removed the flat true damage component and added more %health true damage.

I'm not saying Vayne has no counterplay (though I am saying it's limited), I'm saying that %HTD shouldnt exist on such a straightforward kit.

I somehow missed this ;_;

Over Innsmouth3 votes

It happens, honest mistake.

Mandang01 votes

This is such a better argument than the "I can't itemize against it" argument - I really wish people would focus on this instead of the other.

I mean, when grievous wounds was changed to not work on heals coming from other targets, no one was complaining that Sona or Nami or Kayle were OP, yet you couldn't itemize against those heals.

Lastly, there still is an optimal way to itemize around %HTD, but most players are too stubborn to seek it out (most of the time, it's still stacking health, as Last Whisper removes 35% of the value from any gold you spend on armor). Attack speed debuffs should still help too, but AA resets are a poison on this game that circumvent such counter itemization.

Spoofghoul1 votes

Yea thats the main thing i dislike in this game atm the fact that most carries have counter counters like aa resets or counter counter itemization options like the lastwhisper which makes all your armor very ineffective.

%hp damage is similar in that it scales with the opponents stats which is just awkward, anoither counter counter.

I think its also one of the reasons why i don't see alot of tanks being succesfull anymore, there is too much shit going around to literally counter what they are building to counter.

You see the occasional maokai or malphite or gragas because their kits have readily available reliable engage or disengage tools they are straightforward you go in stun or displace some peeps and hope ur team kills them before you die. Maokai also makes his team more tanky and has the passive heals which helps, and then there is alistar with a massive damage reduction ult.

But tanks without reliable utility or engage have it tough atm, which is why i think riot needs to do a tank update next, as they are also good in dealing with assassins provided they get the right tools and itemization.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tides of Blood,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qb9QoMcf,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-05-30T13:32:11.956+0000)

http://imgur.com/fEemWpp

They actually removed the flat true damage component and added more %health true damage.

I'm not saying Vayne has no counterplay (though I am saying it's limited), I'm saying that %HTD shouldnt exist on such a straightforward kit.

vayne does have counterplay

she just reduces its effectiveness by building attack speed.

built optimally vayne reduces the effectiveness of purchases against her damage alone by 25% in what I'll call a vacuum. Doesnt include things you do to stall her damage.

LSmaster169 votes

It had flat damage plus % max health damage, in preseason they changed it to % max health with a minimum. It was never just flat damage.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

It had flat damage plus % max health damage, in preseason they changed it to % max health with a minimum. It was never just flat damage.

the sad part is, that her w deals even more damage to squishies than before, while its downright stupid against bruisers and tanks.

taking 1k true damage from silver bolts is a normal occurance right now.

Sylverblitz3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qb9QoMcf,comment-id=000000030000,timestamp=2016-05-30T15:21:08.788+0000)

the sad part is, that her w deals even more damage to squishies than before, while its downright stupid against bruisers and tanks.

taking 1k true damage from silver bolts is a normal occurence right now.

How dare you guys prove me wrong using statistics and proof! That shut me up then, willing to admit I'm wrong.

killd0zer1 votes

I cant tell if you're being retarded intentionally but to take 1k damage from silver bolts the enemy needs 8.3k hp

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

I cant tell if you're being retarded intentionally but to take 1k damage from silver bolts the enemy needs 8.3k hp

you are aware, that vayne can proc her w more than once in a fight against you?

and youre calling me retarded lol.

Skias1 votes

{quoted}

Vayne's Silver Bolts are not % true damage any more. That was changed a while back to flat damage per level of the skill. As for her duel potential and being very hard to escape from I like that part of her kit even when I'm the one trying to run away. You need strong peel and hard cc for her but I would hardly consider her impossible to escape from. Her big drawbacks are her relatively short auto attack range and being single target on all her abilities.

Wrong.

Sylverblitz1 votes

{quoted}

Wrong.

Welcome to yesterday. :)

Caítlyn2 votes

People get so worked up over "% true damage" without ever actually doing math. Irelia MasterYi Olaf all do far more true damage.

If you want to complain about true damage you should complain about Chogath because 1k true damage with the click of 1 button has far less counterplay then a squishy autoing you.

CppL5 votes

{quoted}

People get so worked up over "% true damage" without ever actually doing math. Irelia MasterYi Olaf all do far more true damage.

If you want to complain about true damage you should complain about Chogath because 1k true damage with the click of 1 button has far less counterplay then a squishy autoing you.

Its not about who does more true dmg ,is about %hp true dmg having no counterplay.Against true dmg you can build hp.Against % hp true dmg you cant bulld anything to counter it

Caítlyn3 votes

Riot has taken steps to balance it with something called "power budget". Because of % true damage, Vayne has literally no skills that do damage (nobody uses E to do damage). All she has are auto attack enhancers. Fiora has an ult that does no damage, it only gives her the potential to.

Meanwhile we have KogMaw who does so much damage, both magic and physical.

CppL3 votes

{quoted}

Riot has taken steps to balance it with something called "power budget". Because of % true damage, Vayne has literally no skills that do damage (nobody uses E to do damage). All she has are auto attack enhancers. Fiora has an ult that does no damage, it only gives her the potential to.

Meanwhile we have KogMaw who does so much damage, both magic and physical.

Thats why she has huge steroids ,mobility , stealth.Unlike kog

Masala Chai1 votes

That's why Kog has an attack that gives him twice the attack speed and range extender; at the expense of 55% power auto attacks, an armor and MR reducer, multi target percent health damage, and a long range execute.

Ultîma1 votes

Yes, % True damage has no counterplay, and the champions that have it Fiora Vayne are designed with that special power in mind. They are meant to be able to kill targets at any point in the game if they are able to fulfill the conditions that gives them access to their true damage. The passive is not exactly on-demand or instant, but has to be played around. Neither Vayne nor Fiora have a great deal of influence outside their short range, so they're instead exceptional duelists that can win out in a skirmish. There are other characters that also do this like Yasuo Irelia Riven MasterYi and could probably take on either of those characters in the right situation as well.

Given the context that % true damage is the high point of both of those characters I don't see how it is a problem. There exists characters that can deleted people far faster with a lot more ease/less counterplay than either of them. If you don't agree with characters having consistent kill power under certain conditions (which is somewhat inaccurate in Fiora's case since she needs to build AD for it anyway...) then idk how we can have a discussion about this topic.

Crowe Stalker4 votes

{quoted}

If you want to complain about true damage you should complain about Chogath because 1k true damage with the click of 1 button has far less counterplay then a squishy autoing you.

300/475/650 (1000 when used on Non-Champions) (+70% AP Ratio) Maybe try reading the pages on the Lol Wiki before quoting numbers. Also he does have to be within Melee Range to do it. EDIT: Thanks for catching my mistake in quoting the numbers Sasogwa

Caítlyn2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jhin n Tonix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qb9QoMcf,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2016-05-30T15:02:05.766+0000)

300/450/675 (1000 when used against minions/monsters) (+70% AP Ratio) on Champions Maybe try reading the pages on the Lol Wiki before quoting numbers

Chogath only needs a little over 400 AP (easily attainable) to do 1k true damage. Maybe you should try doing math before replying.

Crowe Stalker5 votes

You put that in without the context of Cho'gath building damage, which detracts from his tankiness. Keep in mind he also has no source of major mobility.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

ROA, Hextech Protobelt/GLP, Zhonya's, Abyssal. ~300 AP while still being pretty durable.

Crowe Stalker1 votes

100 (GLP is 80 and worse than RoA generally) 60, 70, 60 = 290. Need an Infernal Dragon but it's close, you have a fair point.

Hibeki1 votes

Not to mention it's his ultimate, has a mana cost, and can only be used once.

Sasogwa5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jhin n Tonix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qb9QoMcf,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2016-05-30T15:02:05.766+0000)

300/450/675 (1000 when used against minions/monsters) (+70% AP Ratio) on Champions Maybe try reading the pages on the Lol Wiki before quoting numbers

Well it can reach 1k starting 464 AP

Edit : 500 AP actually, because the number you gave was wrong, it's 650 at max rank (300/475/650)

alfavhunter2 votes

{quoted}

People get so worked up over "% true damage" without ever actually doing math. Irelia MasterYi Olaf all do far more true damage.

If you want to complain about true damage you should complain about Chogath because 1k true damage with the click of 1 button has far less counterplay then a squishy autoing you.

, cho has no mobility, has to get in to melee range for that click and do true damage, has to build a good bit of AP to do that much true damage, AND it's not spammable

Vayne on the other hand just needs you in her proximity and if you have 1 million armor, she can still kill you at a good speed, same with Fiora, and building more HP doesnt change that (unlike vs cho and other flat true damage dealers, who having more HP vs makes thier true damage weaker)

I'll tell you now, if I am a Sion with + 10k hp I fear a vayne or Fiora MUCH more than I would any of the other true damage dealers, why? Because they are still going to kill me just as effectively as if that was a 5K hp bonus

What I feel they should do to the vayne and Fiora %hp true damage is this

Remove it and replace it with this mechanic

The attack that would have done % HP true damage instead ignores 100% of armor for that hit, this still gives them true damage, but is now dependent on thier AD (and crits) to be effective, this in turn would delete possibilities like tank Fiora or vayne (yes I've seen AS tank vayne, it was toxic)

Caítlyn2 votes

If you have 1 million armor Vayne needs to shoot you 27 times in a row, without ever attacking ANYTHING ELSE, to kill you with true damage alone.

If you let anyone hit you with auto attacks 27x in a row you deserve to die.

Over Innsmouth2 votes

Cho's has a base of 300/450/675 True Damage against Champions, it's only 1000 against minions/monsters.

There is no way that Yi, Olaf, or Irelia do more true damage than true damage that scales off the enemies health.

Caítlyn3 votes

Have you even tried doing math?

Chogath can do 1k true damage with less then 500 AP.

MasterYi can do 100 true damage on hit.

Irelia does 75 true damage on hit.

Olaf does 300 true damage every few seconds in combat.

Vayne deals between 200-300 true damage every 3 hits on the same target.

Meanwhile all those other champions also have huge damage on all their other skills while Vayne literally ONLY HAS AUTO ATTACKS. If a champion has only auto attacks they had better be pretty dang powerful if they are to be useful at all. And when you actually do math, its really not that powerful in comparison.

Over Innsmouth3 votes

Sure, I agree with the idea that a Champion who's entire kit can only function from behind one mechanic (autoattacking), should be pretty strong to make up for that, but in my main post I talked about how my issue isnt with how much true damage Vayne does (though it's certainly annoying), it's how it's applied.

If Vayne decides she's going to kill you, you can't really build armour and health to effectively stop that since %HTD ignores both. You could run for it, but then she ults and gains 90 MS towards you.

That's my issue with it, it feels binary. It's too easy to apply for the amount of power it has. The fact that Vayne is entirely AA-based makes counterplay for the opponent difficult to access, since you're either in range taking damage, or not.

Cho'Gath's damage doesnt bother me because he'll need to be next to me to do it, it's his ultimate, he's taking the CD away from stacking his bonus health, and I can counterbuild with flat health. Irelia is also melee, and I can counterbuild with flat health. Yi is also melee, Olaf is also melee and his E has a health cost attached to it.

Skias1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tides of Blood,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qb9QoMcf,comment-id=0003000300000000,timestamp=2016-05-30T16:35:02.354+0000)

Sure, I agree with the idea that a Champion who's entire kit can only function from behind one mechanic (autoattacking), should be pretty strong to make up for that, but in my main post I talked about how my issue isnt with how much true damage Vayne does (though it's certainly annoying), it's how it's applied.

If Vayne decides she's going to kill you, you can't really build armour and health to effectively stop that since %HTD ignores both. You could run for it, but then she ults and gains 90 MS towards you.

That's my issue with it, it feels binary. It's too easy to apply for the amount of power it has. The fact that Vayne is entirely AA-based makes counterplay for the opponent difficult to access, since you're either in range taking damage, or not.

Cho'Gath's damage doesnt bother me because he'll need to be next to me to do it, it's his ultimate, he's taking the CD away from stacking his bonus health, and I can counterbuild with flat health. Irelia is also melee, and I can counterbuild with flat health. Yi is also melee, Olaf is also melee and his E has a health cost attached to it.

Reliability is probably the one thing Riot is worst at balancing in a kit budget. There are a ton of champs that dont pay a tax for having overwhelmingly binary easy to apply damage.

Vayne and Veigar being some of the worst offenders. Annie is pretty bad here too.

Emerald Fang2 votes

% HP is for tank-busting.

For example, say you have a 5000 HP Malphite with 400 armor and 300 MR. Which happens. Way too much. He's unkillable. Even Jhin's supercharged 700 AD shots only deal 100-200 damage to him. But luckily, Vayne comes in with her Silver bolts. 3 hits later, the malphite took 600 true damage. Easier to kill, right? And Vayne can shred through Malphite with a few procs. But %HP is useless against mages and ADC's who usually don't build HP items. it's basically just flat damage to them, and it doesn't deal much. If you didn't have this, you would see everyone building HP and Armor/MR, b/c there would be no counter.

Vayne Completely balanced as of now. No issues here. She's hard enough to play that her Silver Bolts is justified. You went off on a rant about her MS, also. She is meant to be a mobile ADC. She is meant to be fully reliant on basic attacks. But these make up for low HP and mana, weak early game, and if she gets hard CCed she really can't do anything. Hard CC counters her. Fiora Yes, some issues, but a good counterpick for armor champs like Malphite and Rammus. I think Riot made her for countering these champions, but others suffer from this. Garen Has other issues than his true damage, but the main issue is, if you're the villain you can't really touch him b/c he will true damage you to death. That Ultimate does a lot of magic damage, but imagine it in true damage. Velkoz I like the new Vel'koz rework. I can see how the %HTD is justified on him, but Riot made it so that it scales with AP, making him a better late game champion.

Icestar11861 votes

400 armor, 300 MR, and 5k HP? What build gets you that?

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

400 armor, 300 MR, and 5k HP? What build gets you that?

none.

youd have to be malphite, rammus or graves.

Masala Chai1 votes

Sion with 6 GA and MR and Armor Runes as needed.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

But %HP is useless against mages and ADC's who usually don't build HP items. it's basically just flat damage to them, and it doesn't deal much.

A Mage with 2000 HP is gonna take 240 damage in True Damage at max W rank on top of being outright shredded by the normal Physical damage. And HP Items don't matter. If Vayne did 0 Physical Damage and only did 12% Max HP True Damage every third auto, she'd kill anybody in the same amount of Autos regardless of their HP.

Hinagiku332 votes

The reason you, and some other people, dislike % Max HP True Damage is because you feel that you cannot counter-build it. However, that is exactly the reason why this mechanic exists. Champions like Fiora are specifically designed so they cannot be ignored 1v1 just because you bought a little armor. Her lane opponents top all deal more than enough damage to kill her while getting to build all or mostly tank. If her damage was all physical then she'd be shut down just for buying item 1031

I hear your argument here a lot: "Just make it physical damage! Amp up the numbers if you have to! Let it ignore a % of armor if you have to!" This would be a terrible idea. The reason that Fiora vitals are not % Health Physical Damage is because she would not be able to fight Tanks or Bruisers. They already stack armor to fight the enemy Marksmen and can easily deal enough damage to kill her even when building mostly tank. So you just increase the number then right? Let's be realistic: if you amp up the numbers on Fiora's vitals to make up for the handicap of them being physical damage then she will turn squishy champs into a fine red misty instantly. If you let them ignore resistances to make them numbers lower then you might as well keep the % Max Health True Damage.

By the way, Yasuo "solved" this problem by just letting him get super easy 100% Critical Strike Chance. And we all know that we've never complained about constant bursts of huge, flat physical damage before.

Here's the thing, the reason why Riot uses % Max Health True Damage and will likely keep using it: It's fair. It is unique in that it is the only mechanic in this game that punishes squishy champs and tanky champs equally. 10% is 10% no matter what. True Damage is True Damage no matter what. It hurts squishy champs but does not instantly kill them while hurting tanky champs enough to make them have to pay attention to you.

But at the end of the day it's no different than flat True Damage. Get more Health and you will always have a net gain in durability. Here's some math:

Marksman at Level 18, Max HP: ~2000 Olaf's Reckless Swing (E): 250 (40% AD) at max rank. Vayne's Silver Bolts (W): 12% of Max Health at max rank. Sterak's Gage: 400 bonus Health

Olaf's E: 2000 - 250 = 1750 Health remaining (12.5% Max HP lost) Olaf's E with 80 bonus AD from ult: 2000 - 250(32) = 2000 - 282 = 1718 Health remaining (14.1% Max HP lost) Vayne's W: 2000 - 12% (240) = 1760 Health remaining (12% Max HP lost)

Olaf's E with Sterak's: 2400 - 250 = 2150 Health remaining (10.4% Max HP lost) Olaf's E with 80 bonus AD from ult with Sterak's: 2400 - 250(32) = 2400 - 282 = 2118 Health remaining (11.7% Max HP lost) Vayne's W with Sterak's: 2400 - 12% (288) = 2112 Health remaining (12% Max HP lost)

The only difference between flat True Damage and % Max Health True Damage is how that damage is calculated. Either way you are going to be hit by a flat amount of True Damage, which is probably going to be about the same anyway, especially considering some sources of True Damage scale. The answer to True Damage is ALWAYS to build more Health, you will have a net gain in Health remaining no matter what so you NEVER have to actually worry about getting less durable for building Health.

Skias2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fiora All Night,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qb9QoMcf,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2016-05-30T23:11:40.609+0000)

The reason you, and some other people, dislike % Max HP True Damage is because you feel that you cannot counter-build it. However, that is exactly the reason why this mechanic exists. Champions like Fiora are specifically designed so they cannot be ignored 1v1 just because you bought a little armor. Her lane opponents top all deal more than enough damage to kill her while getting to build all or mostly tank. If her damage was all physical then she'd be shut down just for buying item 1031

I hear your argument here a lot: "Just make it physical damage! Amp up the numbers if you have to! Let it ignore a % of armor if you have to!" This would be a terrible idea. The reason that Fiora vitals are not % Health Physical Damage is because she would not be able to fight Tanks or Bruisers. They already stack armor to fight the enemy Marksmen and can easily deal enough damage to kill her even when building mostly tank. So you just increase the number then right? Let's be realistic: if you amp up the numbers on Fiora's vitals to make up for the handicap of them being physical damage then she will turn squishy champs into a fine red misty instantly. If you let them ignore resistances to make them numbers lower then you might as well keep the % Max Health True Damage.

By the way, Yasuo "solved" this problem by just letting him get super easy 100% Critical Strike Chance. And we all know that we've never complained about constant bursts of huge, flat physical damage before.

Here's the thing, the reason why Riot uses % Max Health True Damage and will likely keep using it: It's fair. It is unique in that it is the only mechanic in this game that punishes squishy champs and tanky champs equally. 10% is 10% no matter what. True Damage is True Damage no matter what. It hurts squishy champs but does not instantly kill them while hurting tanky champs enough to make them have to pay attention to you.

But at the end of the day it's no different than flat True Damage. Get more Health and you will always have a net gain in durability. Here's some math:

Marksman at Level 18, Max HP: ~2000 Olaf's Reckless Swing (E): 250 (40% AD) at max rank. Vayne's Silver Bolts (W): 12% of Max Health at max rank. Sterak's Gage: 400 bonus Health

Olaf's E: 2000 - 250 = 1750 Health remaining (12.5% Max HP lost) Olaf's E with 80 bonus AD from ult: 2000 - 250(32) = 2000 - 282 = 1718 Health remaining (14.1% Max HP lost) Vayne's W: 2000 - 12% (240) = 1760 Health remaining (12% Max HP lost)

Olaf's E with Sterak's: 2400 - 250 = 2150 Health remaining (10.4% Max HP lost) Olaf's E with 80 bonus AD from ult with Sterak's: 2400 - 250(32) = 2400 - 282 = 2118 Health remaining (11.7% Max HP lost) Vayne's W with Sterak's: 2400 - 12% (288) = 2112 Health remaining (12% Max HP lost)

The only difference between flat True Damage and % Max Health True Damage is how that damage is calculated. Either way you are going to be hit by a flat amount of True Damage, which is probably going to be about the same anyway, especially considering some sources of True Damage scale. The answer to True Damage is ALWAYS to build more Health, you will have a net gain in Health remaining no matter what so you NEVER have to actually worry about getting less durable for building Health.

This is easy for you to say in a vacuum. We all know that Vaynes true damage is quickly multiplied and made worse with attack speed and other item passives. They quickly synergize to make a miserable opponent with very little counterplay.

Emerald Fang1 votes

Yeah, but that is the exact point of Vayne: A tank buster...

Just think about it this way: For non-tanks, there isn't a difference btwn %HTD and flat true damage b/c they don't have much HP; they would both do roughly the same damage. But for tanks, there's a bigger difference between 400 flat true damage and 12% of 5000 HP (600). Vayne is just scary because of her massive late-game power.

Skias1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, but that is the exact point of Vayne: A tank buster...

Just think about it this way: For non-tanks, there isn't a difference btwn %HTD and flat true damage b/c they don't have much HP; they would both do roughly the same damage. But for tanks, there's a bigger difference between 400 flat true damage and 12% of 5000 HP (600). Vayne is just scary because of her massive late-game power.

Thats the horseshit about it. She does get AD and crit along the way so shes equally effective against tanks, melees, assassins and adcs. Shes not a tank buster, shes an everything buster. Thats not a niche, thats overloaded.

Ralanr1 votes

Without %true damage, health stacking would run amok as the main defensive strategy.

As for itemization, the only way I know off is through attack speed slows. But even then that doesn't feel right.

WoonStruck2 votes

How so?

In which circumstances is %HP true damage unable to be viably replaced with magical or physical?

Imagine this; if Vayne had %HP magical, she could build typical ADC builds while having a lot of additional damage that isn't countered by armor. Her Q would also deal a lot more damage this way as well, since AD/crit would be more of a focus. Overlaps with Kog too much? Physical! Make her E grant armor pen against champions pinned! Wow! She doesn't automatically wreck anything when she's ahead!

If Fiora had physical, she'd just be a balance-able champion. Imagine that!

Ralanr1 votes

Heavy resistances make the damage weaker on its intended targets.

ComatosePhoenix3 votes

its almost like building defence should mean something

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