Boards›Gameplay

The problem(s) with Aatrox.

Zexvain··39 votes·3,540 views

As a Aatrox enthusiast, I've noticed a few problems with him. Here's a few problems that I've come solutions up with in hopes of a mini rework.

1.His Q. It's clunky, hard to use, and a little delayed. It feels like i'm watching a slide show while using this ability. A few things that could work are lessen the charge time, and give it a little bit of a bigger hit box. You could also just rework the ability completely, which wouldn't be a bad idea.

2 His Ult. I feel like what it currently offers is great, but one of the biggest problems Aatrox has, is survivability. An idea i've come up with, is for each champion you hit with it, you get a percentage of tenacity, sorta how Irelia's new passive works. Another addition would be giving him a slight AD increase, I feel like it makes sense anyways, for his blade enlarges.

Other than that, I feel like he's an all around alright champion if you get good with him. Just needs a few tweaks here and there, and he might become meta.

73 Comments

GodSage11 votes

he also depends a lot on getting the blood bar filled and when you use your passive then your attack speed from the bar is gone. I got to agree that the Q is very predictable and easy to dodge.

Luminier7 votes

My ideas were as followed: Make his passive revive give him CC immunity (for a very brief time), or knock everyone back when he's revived. His Q makes him untargetable for the flight duration. His E shreds a % of enemy's total armor. His R cleanses him and fears all enemies hit by it for .5 seconds.

Honestly I think this would be enough to make him good again.

Asayake 5150glow2 votes

{quoted}

My ideas were as followed: Make his passive revive give him CC immunity (for a very brief time), or knock everyone back when he's revived. His Q makes him untargetable for the flight duration. His E shreds a % of enemy's total armor. His R cleanses him and fears all enemies hit by it for .5 seconds.

Honestly I think this would be enough to make him good again.

He needs better defensive base stats.

Funkin Dunkin2 votes

An uninterruptable that isn't an ultimate is never a good idea.

MuffledGarbage4 votes

Fizz E Elise Spider form E Fiora W Kled Passive (debatably) Urgot EQ combo

SociopathFriend1 votes

I have a feeling he meant to add "knock-up" after uninterruptible.

Sellinia1 votes

Even so, Fizz jumps up on a little stick and can't be hit, so why can't Aatrox fly up in the air and not be hit? Yes he does a knockup, but his q is one of the big parts of his kit, when it gets shut down by a Morg q, Lux q, any form of cc, it eats away at a part of his fighting ability.

AhmadS51 votes

{quoted}

My ideas were as followed: Make his passive revive give him CC immunity (for a very brief time), or knock everyone back when he's revived. His Q makes him untargetable for the flight duration. His E shreds a % of enemy's total armor. His R cleanses him and fears all enemies hit by it for .5 seconds.

Honestly I think this would be enough to make him good again.

This is the best thing i have seen today .

LordGeovanni1 votes

I like this but i think that league has too much armor shreading tools until they lower black cleavers armor shread at least 10%

Sergeant Hawk1 votes

THAT KNOCK BACK IDEA THO. THATS GENIUS. KINDA LIKE ASCENSION XERATH. RITA PLEASE

AirKingNeo3 votes

I think you forget a few other things:

  1. He had no armor pen in his kit to be able to even hurt tanks. Yes he can beat them in lane, but after that or thornmail, he's a goner.

  2. He has little base stats. His ult would be a fine ability had he have real base stats like every other fighter.

  3. His kit is underloaded compared to new champions and meta picks. Seriously if his E had another effect he's probably be meta assuming other fixes.

Also they should make it so his Q isn't canceled by CC. Otherwise he cannot, under any circumstance, fight Riven.

Sad Tyrant1 votes

3 would be solved if he did % health damage on top of the Bonus damage on W.

AirKingNeo1 votes

No because if his W dealt % HP physical damage he still wouldn't hurt tanks as they stack armor.

Sad Tyrant1 votes

What if the % Max Health did Magic damage instead?, making harder to build against him immediately

AirKingNeo1 votes

Then he couldn't really kill ADCs with GA and he'd still fall off due to a lack of penetration.

Sad Tyrant1 votes

you do know that he can build items like LW and VS right?

edit : Also someone suggested to make his E like Sion's and Attach AR pen to it

AirKingNeo1 votes

No, you can't build LW on Aatrox because then you're blown up in fights due to a lack of tank stats. Every fighter but Aatrox has a tank killing mechanic (except Jax), why doesn't Aatrox?

Zexvain1 votes

{quoted}

I think you forget a few other things:

  1. He had no armor pen in his kit to be able to even hurt tanks. Yes he can beat them in lane, but after that or thornmail, he's a goner.

  2. He has little base stats. His ult would be a fine ability had he have real base stats like every other fighter.

  3. His kit is underloaded compared to new champions and meta picks. Seriously if his E had another effect he's probably be meta assuming other fixes.

Also they should make it so his Q isn't canceled by CC. Otherwise he cannot, under any circumstance, fight Riven.

Fighting riven isn't impossible, yeah, the cc is near damn impossible to deal with, you just have to learn how optimize your w.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Severely incorrect. Aatrox cannot fight Riven. She outdamages and out CC's him too much.

Zexvain1 votes

{quoted}

Severely incorrect. Aatrox cannot fight Riven. She outdamages and out CC's him too much.

All depends on the play, I have no issue fighting against riven.

IxtaliKing3 votes

I think it would be cool if his Dark Flight ability was a short duration flight ability that could be recasted to slam down for the knock up. Probably a silly idea, but I feel like if he has wings he should probably make more use of them xD. Aside from that I'd be happy to see any changes that brings Aatrox back into the game without taking away from his awesome theme.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

So make it like Meta Knight's Shuttle Loop?

IxtaliKing3 votes

Kinda, I guess. The way I imagine it: Aatrox becomes airborne (perhaps gaining a small ms boost?) and ignores terrain for about 3 seconds maybe, recasting this ability causes him to slam down on the target location. I think it would be cool to have a short duration controllable flight ability in the game, and who better to have that than a Diver like Aatrox?

Melledoneus1 votes

The only issue is you can't stop him when he does that.

IxtaliKing1 votes

Why not? I mean I guess it would depend if his flight is disabled or delayed by taking damage, or just disabled by cc. There's many ways it could be handled, design wise.

Melledoneus1 votes

Hopefully you don't make him immune to CC. That's a mini-Malphite ult on a regular ability.

IxtaliKing1 votes

Yeah, I don't believe removing counterplay from champs is ever a good idea really. I definitely wouldn't advocate for something like that.

Toxickh2 votes

I think his passive could use a little bit of tweaking somehow, not sure how though.

Booleans1 votes

{quoted}

I think his passive could use a little bit of tweaking somehow, not sure how though.

The only thing wrong with his passive is actually the biggest problem in aatrox's entire kit -- he loses a bunch of attack speed when he revives. If his passive only drained half his bloodwell, restoring double the drained health, he would heal the exact same amount while retaining some power after reviving.

joger123452 votes

Make Aatrox great again! (kill me)

Serika Zero2 votes

Aatrox only needs his Q to be "unstoppable", like Malphite ult, so you can't stop it in anyway (except camille's ult). Then he's fine and balanced.

It won't make him and OP, meta champion, must pick and ban like right now we have with camille. But it will make him able to survive bad match-ups, win good match-ups harder and have his skill match-ups slightly easier with an "unstoppable" escape.

Legacy Hydralpha2 votes

You could also just rework the ability completely, which wouldn't be a bad idea.

I feel that if Aatrox Q wasn't so clunky and was good, it might be a bit too strong of an ability. A free AOE knockup with an engage? It's like Yasuo's Q into Ult combo but all at once. Maybe if they made a new Q that worked as a mobility spell, but a bit differently. Maybe a dash that pushes enemies to the side of it?

Karakot2 votes

Well I have news for you, aatrox buffs on PBE soon :)

Zexvain1 votes

{quoted}

Well I have news for you, aatrox buffs on PBE soon :)

when and where can I find this?

AmazoX1 votes

Go to Surrender at 20 website and see the full PBE Full Cycle Coverage it updates everytime there is new/change on PBE.

Karakot1 votes

Well go to surrender at 20 and look at the latest red post explaining some upcoming changes to him

BastionKross2 votes

Aatrox's main problem is that his kit is completely binary. If you have bigger numbers, you win - If the enemy has bigger numbers, he wins. His entire kit is built around stat checking opponents and hoping you've got the bigger numbers.

Aatrox suffers from that because his base numbers are embarrassingly low for a fighter. He's likely not winning a stat check unless he gets fed first, and it's difficult to get fed if you can't win stat checks with Aatrox. A vicious cycle.

Riot purposefully made it this way, since if you have an opponent who constantly forces stats checks and has the base stats to actually win them, it's not going to be a very enjoyable game for you. He's just going to all-in you every chance he gets, and has a better chance of winning that all-in every time he wins. That type of hyper snowballing is one of the mains reasons people don't like certain bully champs, as well as the current meta itself.

Further compounding the issue is that Aatrox is a drain tank. So the more damage he builds, the more defense he has by way of constant healing. This multiplies his snowballing problem since he can get ahead on offense and also get ahead on defense at the same time as long as he's attacking something. He's doubling-down on an often toxic mechanic.

In addition, Riot has traditionally been very bad at handling drains tanks. This is why WW was Urgot tier for the last couple years (except 4.20 Warwick, may he burn in hell), Xin balances on a knife's edge where one small buff or nerf could easily take him into broken OP or garbage respectively, and Olaf has the act of completely destroying a champion with nerfs and keeping them there for an extended period of time named after him. Even Aatrox himself was strong for all of a couple weeks back in season 3 before his kneecaps were broken and the balance team tried their hardest to forget he existed.

Those are his main problems. They refuse to be solved with simple number changes, so it's going to require a rework of how he functions on a basic level.

Zephyrous X1 votes

I've played AAtrox since he came out. his q would be fine if the knockup radius wasn't so damn small, his w is really good except for when it bugs with guinsoo's, his e is just garbage, needs to travel like 30% faster to be a decent ability and his ult needs some AD scaling. He would also be a good champion to give a unique item to similar to viktor or rengar. He additionally needs higher base stats and to do physical damage with his e and ult.

Sad Tyrant1 votes

Q would also be better if it wasn't interruptable and had extra range, E needs a longer Range and a change in shape, and he doesn't need to deal Physical damage with his E or R

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sad Tyrant,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qXLdH1Od,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2017-02-19T16:13:16.598+0000)

Q would also be better if it wasn't interruptable and had extra range, E needs a longer Range and a change in shape, and he doesn't need to deal Physical damage with his E or R

It should be interruptable, it'd make it consistent with other air-borne knock-up abilities like zac's slingshot. There are other ways to buff it than to make it uninterruptable (which would remove a huge amount of counterplay).

Sad Tyrant1 votes

Then it needs an almost ridiculous Range increase, or a massive reduction in Wind-up in order to stop the FRUSTRATION AND ANGER AND SALT GENERATED BY being stopped mid flight, Just so y'know all of the options (I can think of) to correct it reduce its counterplay in some form or another.

Zero Skill Tank1 votes

I think you Aatrox people need to understand that Riot knows very well how to make Aatrox "meta", but they don't want to, because his current kit is freaking toxic.

Don't worry though, he gets some substantial changes in next PBE cycle.

Legacy Hydralpha1 votes

I think that's what they're talking about anyways. Riot mentioned the changes he's getting, and people want to give their opinion in hope that Riot doesn't fuck up the champion again and make people not want to play him. Seeing recent discussions, that's how some Malzahar mains felt about the rework.

Zero Skill Tank1 votes

The point is, dude up here propose buffs which - obviously - would make Aatrox stronger without solving any of his game health issues.

GigaPube1 votes

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Clunky

Zexvain1 votes

{quoted}

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Clunky

ye

Shrek Luigi1 votes

The best thing that Riot could do for Aatrox, if they were just going to add onto his current kit, is some sort of modest, AD/blood-well-scaling shield tied to his R or Q so he could actually survive the fights he has to jump into. As it stands, he melts instantly unless hes got an HP+armor item and Spirit Visage by the end of lanephase, which sort of nudges him into having to buy a BOTRK to crank out damage (not ideal). If he had that shield then he'd have a lot more options as far as first-buy items and buildpaths go.

I'm of the opinion that his kit could use a lot more work, though. Champs that use that level of sustain as a crutch for the rest of their gameplay are almost never in a healthy spot, as far as balance is concerned.

FantasySniper1 votes

Once he hits full blood well, all of his health costs should be nixed. Would make him powerful in extended fights, and actually make building health on him viable.

JosephAngelo1 votes

If you can’t charge your blood well, then you can’t apply pressure; If you can’t apply pressure, then you get zone off the minion wave; If you get zoned off the minion wave, then you can’t use your W passive; If you can’t use your W passive, then you can’t charge your blood well; If you can’t charge your blood well, then you can’t apply pressure; If you can’t apply pressure, then you get zone off the minion wave; If you get zoned off the minion wave, then you can’t use your W passive; If you can’t use your W passive, then you can’t charge your blood well;

The cycle continues.

When facing someone who chooses not to zone me, Aatrox is amazing. But when im getting zoned with a low blood well, I feel helpless and frustrated.

Aatrox’s abilites charge his blood well but they are both on about 15 second cooldowns and take a few rotations to fully charge his blood well. The result, when facing someone who knows when and how to zone me, is needing to concede all pressure in the lane for about 20-120 seconds every time I back and reincarnate from passive.

Jmman1 votes

Stack Armor pen items..... fixed it for you.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Zexvain

Can we stop nerfing shit only because it's in the LCS?
Gameplay119 comments
105
votes
Why can GangPlank cleanse out of Yasuo's ult, but Cleanse cannot?
Gameplay65 comments
64
votes
Why does Hashinshin get the streamer treatment?
Player Behavior32 comments
15
votes
Alright, time for a Xin Zhao rework.
Gameplay12 comments
7
votes
I love 1 hour silver games where I lose because my team just refuses to listen to danger pings.
Gameplay6 comments
6
votes
Ok Im sick and tired of the rift herald replacing my ward slot.
Gameplay6 comments
5
votes