[Q] Javelin Toss
Cooldown increased to 12 seconds from 6. Mana cost increased to 100 / 120 / 140 / 160 / 180 mana from 50 / 60 / 70 / 80 / 90. If Javelin Toss hits a minion, monster or pet, the cooldown is reduced to 6 seconds and Nidalee is refunded 50 / 60 /70 / 80 / 90 mana. If Javelin Toss hits an enemy champion, the cooldown is reduced to 4 seconds and Nidalee is refunded 80 / 100 / 120 / 140 / 160 mana.
DisasterSola6 votes... that would be a massive, massive buff.
You easily nerf nidalee by: making it so her 0 cost, 2 second CD dash no longer travels through walls and has a 10 second CD, 6 seconds if you have vision of a hunted enemy.
IMO they should make nidalee RELIANT on getting hunt. Like make it so that her cat form abilties ALL cost mana unless shes currently in battle with a hunted target.
Her problem isnt the spear (not entirely). Her problem is her mobility combined with her damage. Nid has next to no counter play, and its stifling.
Agidyne1 votes... that would be a massive, massive buff.
You easily nerf nidalee by: making it so her 0 cost, 2 second CD dash no longer travels through walls and has a 10 second CD, 6 seconds if you have vision of a hunted enemy.
IMO they should make nidalee RELIANT on getting hunt. Like make it so that her cat form abilties ALL cost mana unless shes currently in battle with a hunted target.
Her problem isnt the spear (not entirely). Her problem is her mobility combined with her damage. Nid has next to no counter play, and its stifling.
The spear is the most cancerous mechanic she has.
Nerfing her escapeability isn't going to reduce the ammount of spears she can throw in rapid succession
Sure she is annoying to chase.
And if you really wanted to nerf her get away tolls, you just make her Pounce only castable on hunted targets and that's it.
Kind of like Last Breath is only usable on airborne targets.
DisasterSola3 votes[{quoted}](name=Walking Titan,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qWoBgU1E,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-04-08T10:30:59.761+0000)
The spear is the most cancerous mechanic she has.
Nerfing her escapeability isn't going to reduce the ammount of spears she can throw in rapid succession
Sure she is annoying to chase.
And if you really wanted to nerf her get away tolls, you just make her Pounce only castable on hunted targets and that's it.
Kind of like Last Breath is only usable on airborne targets.
Her Q isnt what makes her frustrating to play against. Its not what makes her snowball. Its her obscene mobility and damage in the cat form.
Sure the Q can chunk you, but its her only REAL damaging ability in human form. Its her cat forms mobility and damage that make her a threat, a REAL threat.
Think about this; there are ONLY two champions who bat 4/5 possible positions they can play well in. Nidalee and lee sin. What do both have? 6 abilities Obscene mobility Executes High scaling High base damage Sustain "Oh shit" buttons Lack of fall off Always being useful Being useful in almost every position
How do you nerf champions who "have it all"? You nerf the most powerful thing about them; their mobility. Lee sin and nidalee BOTH hinge on their mobility; its a lynchpin. Its what makes them over powered. "Jack of trades" Shouldnt exist. Hyper mobility shouldnt exist (Unless everyone is hyper mobile) Hyper mobility combined with high base damage executes most certainly should NOT be a thing. Ever.
Agidyne2 votesHer Q isnt what makes her frustrating to play against. Its not what makes her snowball. Its her obscene mobility and damage in the cat form.
Sure the Q can chunk you, but its her only REAL damaging ability in human form. Its her cat forms mobility and damage that make her a threat, a REAL threat.
Think about this; there are ONLY two champions who bat 4/5 possible positions they can play well in. Nidalee and lee sin. What do both have? 6 abilities Obscene mobility Executes High scaling High base damage Sustain "Oh shit" buttons Lack of fall off Always being useful Being useful in almost every position
How do you nerf champions who "have it all"? You nerf the most powerful thing about them; their mobility. Lee sin and nidalee BOTH hinge on their mobility; its a lynchpin. Its what makes them over powered. "Jack of trades" Shouldnt exist. Hyper mobility shouldnt exist (Unless everyone is hyper mobile) Hyper mobility combined with high base damage executes most certainly should NOT be a thing. Ever.
There are other champions who can do fine in 4/5 positions aswell lol.
Kayle is the prime example at this. Gragas has been seen in every position but AD Carry in Competitive play.
Meanwhile Nidalee support is a fucking noobtrap and has always been.
Javelin Toss is what her frustrating to deal with as you can dodge 999 spears, yet you get hit by one and you are fucked.
I couldn't care less about her being able to jump all over the map as long as she doesn't nuke me for 40% of my HP from 1500 units away with an Invisible spear.
Especially when you realize Nidalee can spam her Javelin with no reasonable cost. Regardless of it hitting or not.
Cat form is honestly fine. It's the only part of her kit that can actually backfire as most Nidalees are WAYYY too over zealous and will pounce on a Hunted Garen with 50% hp or some shit.
Her Spear should have a meaningful cost. That's it.
Nox Interna1 votes... that would be a massive, massive buff.
You easily nerf nidalee by: making it so her 0 cost, 2 second CD dash no longer travels through walls and has a 10 second CD, 6 seconds if you have vision of a hunted enemy.
IMO they should make nidalee RELIANT on getting hunt. Like make it so that her cat form abilties ALL cost mana unless shes currently in battle with a hunted target.
Her problem isnt the spear (not entirely). Her problem is her mobility combined with her damage. Nid has next to no counter play, and its stifling.
with 40% CDR, spears would be thrown at jung monsters every second. karthus sheds tears of jealousy.
M Schumacher1 votesJust remove her from the game
bam fixed
Acidic Puddle1 votesI do feel like this would be a buff, however it would make her better to play against, and have an even higher skill-cap. For example you would have to position yourself so that if the enemy dodged then it would hit a minion. However if she were to land a spear then she could pounce, swipe, takedown, spear, in order to kill insanely fast.
But overall, RITO PLS!!! im a nid main and would love to see a higher skill-cap, and buff.
qetzel1 votesThat would balance her, yes.
However, it would feel like shit for the Nidalee players - they are people too!
You need to make sure that your balance changes keep the champion fun to play as well as fine to play against.
Agidyne1 votesThat would balance her, yes.
However, it would feel like shit for the Nidalee players - they are people too!
You need to make sure that your balance changes keep the champion fun to play as well as fine to play against.
feel like shit?
because you just cant mindlessly spam a low cooldown nuke with no costs?
My balance suggestion would actually make an even stronger Nidalee aslong as someone was able to consistently land spears as Javelin Toss cooldown and Mana cost would go even lower than live.
It would only feel like shit to people who suck with Nidalee in the first place.
Missing spears would bring a great punishment, but hitting them would bring an even higher reward.
All that while also making Spear Dodging worth while. Atm, you can dodge 30 spears and you would feel no difference as the actual spear costs are meaningless. And it doesn't matter if you dodge 99 spears as she can basically only hit one and destroy you from pretty much 100 to 0 if you are squishy.
And no, Nidalee players aren't people, most of them could be replaced with Q bots and you wouldn't even notice a difference.
qetzel1 votesFeel like shit because you basically removed the spell... The mana cost is so high that Nidalee would be effectively forced to use it only at very close range (missing is far too punishing) removing the main purpose of the spell - setting up assassinations.
It would feel like shit to every Nidalee player. The spears are actually fairly hard to land now. The good Nidalees (read LCS players) don't even land half of them. The spears aren't as impactful as you are suggesting either - they were before the nerf, they aren't anymore. There is a reason Riot doesn't add many punishing effects into LoL (can you think of any aside from Kassadin's Riftwalk (although that feels less shit since the lowered mana costs). They are not a good mechanic.
And Nidalee players are people. Sorry.
Agidyne1 votesFeel like shit because you basically removed the spell... The mana cost is so high that Nidalee would be effectively forced to use it only at very close range (missing is far too punishing) removing the main purpose of the spell - setting up assassinations.
It would feel like shit to every Nidalee player. The spears are actually fairly hard to land now. The good Nidalees (read LCS players) don't even land half of them. The spears aren't as impactful as you are suggesting either - they were before the nerf, they aren't anymore. There is a reason Riot doesn't add many punishing effects into LoL (can you think of any aside from Kassadin's Riftwalk (although that feels less shit since the lowered mana costs). They are not a good mechanic.
And Nidalee players are people. Sorry.
Punishing effects?
There would be no punishing effects for Nidalee, only extremely giant Rewards.
I'll give you an example of Punishing effects already in lol.
Defile negates Karthus passive mana gain. Ravenous Flock mana cost grows with duration. Rumbles Junkyard Titan rewards him for using his spells, yet punishes him greatly if he spams them by Silencing himself. As you've mentioned, Riftwalk mana costs growth. And many others spells.
And no, it wouldn't "remove" the spell. Only make it the Highest Risk and the Most Rewarding spell to hit by far.
And if you are worried missing a spear would be too punishing, remember you can always aim at the creep wave.
Best case, you hit the champion. Worst case, you hit a minion.
But I don't expect Q bots to understand this. Nidalee is a champion who is by far too fucking toxic to be in the game in her current state. I want to play League of Legends, not Whack-a-mole 3000 Spear Edition.
qetzel1 votesThose aren't punishing (except for Kassadin). They offer meaningful decisions. Do I get the extra AOE to help with farming or do I do it more slowly but gain mana?
I don't expect an idiot to understand this. Sorry, I know this isn't the way to facilitate discussion, but you are being idiotic.
Agidyne1 votesThose aren't punishing (except for Kassadin). They offer meaningful decisions. Do I get the extra AOE to help with farming or do I do it more slowly but gain mana?
I don't expect an idiot to understand this. Sorry, I know this isn't the way to facilitate discussion, but you are being idiotic.
Those ARE punishing.
If Rumble literally "spams" too much, he will get Silenced.
How is that not a punishing mechanic? huh?
That's the exact same way Nidalee should work.
Her spear is her defining spell, it is however, one of the most toxic spells in the game.
It has High damage, low cooldown and low mana cost for what it does.
Such spell should be very very punishing to miss but very rewarding to hit.
I don't expect you to understand my point either tbh.
You don't know what the "High Risk / High Reward" concept means by your previous posts.