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Suggestion for Vayne's True damage

dontspinbutwin··2 votes·1,438 views

So since the dawn of time, vayne has always been this scary late game monster, always having the potential to 1v5 with enough skill.

Of course, there were times where she wasn't as impactful due to meta change, but her true damage and her play-making potential made her popular from time to time (and of course, she eventually handed down the toxicity torch she received from yi down to yasuo). Vayne wouldn't be too big of an issue except she has max hp true damage as auto attacks, causing everyone to die a bit inside. She was the anti-tank, anti-adc, anti-assassin pew-pew lady, someone you could never properly itemize with.

Now, I'm fine with being outplayed by a vayne. If she reads me well, and can weave through all my grabs and such, she deserves to kill me. What she shouldn't deserve is to become a moving turret that tanks and assassins can't deal with after going 4/11/3.

So I propose a minor change. Don't make her W a constant passive that's constantly turned on. Make the change so that if she's just auto attacking, there are no silver bolts, but if she tumbles, have the W active for her next 3 autos. This way, when she decides to commit to a fight, her damage is the same, but if she's cced or taunted, her auto's don't hurt. A rammus shouldn't be nuked for successfully ccing the backline.

Sincerely, a Frustrated toplaner who builds 300 armor yet still gets creamed on by a 3/7 vayne.

17 Comments

xDogMeatx2 votes

reduce true damage by half if she is allowed to have rageblade/bork procs.

dontspinbutwin1 votes

If vayne does her combo correctly, and is mechanically skilled, she deserves the damage she has. If she fumbles, she should be punished. Reducing the damage from rageblade and bork would mildly help, but overall, it doesn't punish vayne players who are mechanically horrendous.

WhyEvenBotherFR1 votes

You wrote down what her job is. And then call for her to not have that specific job she was meant to have. It's not just building armor. You've got to have health. She has weaknesses all over. Allowing her ult to run dry opens her way up. She has a lower range than most adcs so she has to get close to fight. Her W resets if she autos a different target. Also the True damage does not proc unless the third hit applies. (2 if rageblade is fully stacked)

dontspinbutwin1 votes

You are correct, vayne has weaknesses, yet they aren't easily exploited. Sure she can be bursted, but the resources to do so is usually hard to pull off. Lets say galio successfully pulls a flash taunt onto vayne. Galio shouldn't have to still worry about being melted, yet he is.

I get many of her weaknesses, like how a stun essentially kills her, 3 hits are needed for true damage, lower than average auto range, etc. However, these weaknesses aren't too exploitable. If a team has vayne, you bet they know her capabilities, and are going to peel for her to the death. A stun may kill her, but in this damage creep meta, a slow has the capacity to kill a tank. Sure you could build armor, but if you're builidng armor, you're most likely building HP as well, meaning that the armor is essentially negated, as you take more max hp damage in exchange for less independant auto damage. She has to get closer to fight, yes, but with her mobility, her ult Q buff, and teammates, it isn't too difficult for her to weave around combat with the movement speed from her passive, her Q, and her teammates as living meatshields.

Vayne's Job is to be the "anti-tank", I get it. However, my job as a toplaner is to be the frontline meatshield who has a presence in a teamfight. This means my job is to make sure I can take a hit, and dish one out in return, or if I can't return the damage, hold the enemy down as they do the damage. However, Vayne's "Anti-tank" playstyle is turning into an "anti-champion" playstyle, with the damage creep.

I suppose back then, Vayne was more balanced. However, with new buffs, new items, and new damage creeps, If she auto's someone twice, they're half healthed, regardless of what they've built, and that's a problem. The change I propose won't really impact her damage, but rather open her up to a new weakness. If someone like Sneaky played with this nerf, his damage would barely go down. However, if someone randomly picks up first time vayne, they'll most likely perform horrendously. This nerf simply ensures that players who make plays get rewarded, while others who feed but make it to late game are punished.

WhyEvenBotherFR1 votes

Did you play during the protect the kogmaw comp? It's no different.

dontspinbutwin1 votes

You're right, except riot saw that the change they made on kog was so drastic that this meta existed, so they reverted him back to his old state, a massive damage cut that removed the meta. This is both a massive damage nerf in low elo vaynes, but remains relatively the same in high elo, which is fine. In high elo, people know vayne's potential, and are cautious. In low elo, people learn how to play vayne through trial and error.

The main reason the kog argument doesn't work is because there wasn't much mechanics except positioning, and that mechanic was removed when teammates worked as meatshields so kog could 1v5. That's why it was removed, because kog was just a turret.

WhyEvenBotherFR1 votes

Positioning still matters. and the protect the kog comp was not immediately removed. It lasted a long while. So the argument still stands.

dontspinbutwin1 votes

it stayed, but after multiple nerfs. Kog was nerfed multiple times during the process, but none of them worked. They tried nerfing his overall damage, shifting his damage to late game, but nada. It stayed the same. So they removed it because it wasn't balanced. Similarly, Vayne's true damage should only translate to tanks, but is currently being translated to everyone on the enemy, nuking everyone with just 2-3 autos. Nerfs should be made to compensate. If not, then a rework.

WhyEvenBotherFR1 votes

She doesn't start nuking until mid-late. And that's if she had an ok early game. and by ok I mean she didn't die and at least managed to somewhat stay with the cs.

dontspinbutwin1 votes

game's last until mid-late game, so if a vayne is passive, she nukes mid game. That's a problem. Furthermore, even if she feeds, all she needs is bork and guinsoos and she's equal, if not ahead, with everyone. That needs to be addressed, but needs to be addressed carefully. If they nerf items, it impacts others. If they nerf the wrong thing, thats another 2 weeks down the drain.

WhyEvenBotherFR1 votes

I can't agree with the statement. With vayne's low auto range and cc being as evident on most champs as it is. It's too easy to take her out. And most of my games have been ending beforehand. But I owe that to Rift Herald which is a topic for another conversation.

emarythomp21 votes

I think they should either make her silver bolts like kled's w or like varus w: where with varus w it gives u more % damage if you activate it. Or like master yis e where you get true damage but in sacrifice of your ad

dontspinbutwin1 votes

I don't want her W to be a constant, but rather have it only active from time to time, to give options to punish.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Now, I'm fine with being outplayed by a vayne. If she reads me well, and can weave through all my grabs and such, she deserves to kill me.

im not fine with it, because her kit doesnt give me the same chances to outplay her at all.

i honestly feel cheated whenever i play a fight as well as i possibly can, and vayne just wins by a mile because her kit doesnt have any direct weaknesses herself. there is no angle i could have taken to beat her, because her kit itself doesnt give you an opening to make plays on her.

dontspinbutwin1 votes

Her kit is very mobile, and her kit makes her one of, if not, the best duelists in the game. However, hard cc locks her down while she gets melted, as she usually builds little to no resistances. However, if shes binded or taunted, she just becomes "reworked kog", where she becomes a death turret. The change i proposed simply removes that.

Vayne has plenty of weaknesses, but her strengths overshadow the weaknesses. This change gives her a big weakness to be exploited, which makes her more tollerable.

bluefire mark 21 votes

The problem is this won't change a thing. She r/q and then q's every other auto attack. And even if you say, oh we that's late game. Well early game she won't have the attackspeed to really do more than three autos before she uses another q. This solves nothing tbh, it's just a sad excuse to make Vaynes w a boring ability. If it worked off of her q, then why would it be her w? Wouldn't it be a q passive? It makes no sense. I don't think this change really works. Sorry.

dontspinbutwin1 votes

I'm suggesting this change so vayne players who have horrendous mechanics aren't rewarded, or it vayne players are hard cced, it actually impacts them. If a vayne is mechanically good, she remains the same, as it should be: high mechanics should deserve high risk/high reward. However, if she's horrible, then most of her damage is cut.

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