Runes Reforged Will Be a Disaster

Rykagnar·Sep 2, 2017·35 votes·8,824 views

If Riot doesn't have any plans to change the new player system (NOT talking about leveling) to implement thorough, explanatory tutorials for new players on most, if not all aspects of the game, this game will become a complete aneurysm for new players to figure out.

It's already complicated enough, not to mention that the game itself is not straight forward and can take many paths, meaning players will not only have to figure out the basics but also figure out how to use strategy.

Riot hasn't released ANY information at all on how they may change how new players learn the game when they create a new account (and no, the current tutorial is absolute garbage. It hasn't been changed in a long time and telling new players to build Thornmail on an ADC should explain the lack of clarity for new players). If they don't decide to try and do SOMETHING, Runes Reforged will completely deter new players trying to learn.

Sorry not sorry, it's true.

-Razor Blade174

43 Comments

RiotMeddlerSep 2, 201766 votes

Good news: We have plans for the new player experience. Really new players won't be able to modify their runes and will instead get a default page that's generally appropriate to the champion they're playing. After they've played a small number of games they'll get to pick which of a series of pre-built pages they use. Then, after another set of games (still figuring out exactly how many) they'll get the ability to customize Rune pages like anyone else. They'll have a full set of runes worth of power from the start but won't have to deal with customizing the system until they've learned the basics of how the game works.

RykagnarSep 2, 20178 votes

{quoted}

Good news: We have plans for the new player experience. Really new players won't be able to modify their runes and will instead get a default page that's generally appropriate to the champion they're playing. After they've played a small number of games they'll get to pick which of a series of pre-built pages they use. Then, after another set of games (still figuring out exactly how many) they'll get the ability to customize Rune pages like anyone else. They'll have a full set of runes worth of power from the start but won't have to deal with customizing the system until they've learned the basics of how the game works.

That's a good sigh of relief. That will definitely make the Runes Reforged update a lot easier to understand. But, on another note, do you have any other plans to change other tutorials for the game? Because at current it's very hard to grasp this game. I understand this game is complex and does take a little time to learn but that shouldn't justify the lack of tutorials to teach new players how to farm, how to kill, how to jungle, how to take towers etc. Just my personal thoughts. I'm very relieved to hear that new players will not have to immediately figure out rune pages, that solves a few problems.

jwebb0113Sep 2, 20174 votes

i still think it will be a disaster just the stupid amount of imbalances its gonna cause ... maybe in time they figure it out... but for the start of the season oh man

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

AFilthyCaitMainSep 2, 201741 votes

This is actually very clever. New players will be able to think, "Ok, why are these runes good on this champ?"

Although please dont leave it like the current game tutorial where you build item 3075 on Ashe .

Automated RivenSep 3, 20171 votes

I broke the upvote button. For some god damn stupid reason it only let me give you one. :(

LaughingStaplerSep 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Good news: We have plans for the new player experience. Really new players won't be able to modify their runes and will instead get a default page that's generally appropriate to the champion they're playing. After they've played a small number of games they'll get to pick which of a series of pre-built pages they use. Then, after another set of games (still figuring out exactly how many) they'll get the ability to customize Rune pages like anyone else. They'll have a full set of runes worth of power from the start but won't have to deal with customizing the system until they've learned the basics of how the game works.

I love having 30% CDR/lvl runes and going Tear builds with only one CDR item like Zhonya's. Please don't take this away from me. It's really fun to make poke pages which normally don't scale well (such as Ziggs if you look at his late graph) do better. Since they're not burst assassins just going in for one rotation and then leaving, they absolutely need CDR but then if they get their normal CDR build they either don't have enough mana or they lack sufficient damage and die too fast as well. My solution is to lose the first 25 minutes and rely more on the jungler but allows me to remain relevant late (which is hard in this tankier shield/heal meta). I think the meta is fun personally... I like seeing more tanks but I see Adaptive Help vs me as Ziggs and it's already very hard so that's why I want these more scaling builds. Ziggs already won't solo kill people early if they're good and his waveclear isn't that amazing either (unless you use exorbitant mana) so I think I need to make him scale harder. I can't just take turrets and snowball every game. This 30% CDR build with Tear is my favorite by far and the only way to make Tear viable imo. If I don't go so many CDR runes, the Tear delays my own CDR way too much to be justified.

Linna ExcelSep 2, 20171 votes

How about levels 5 and 10 as breakpoints?

Very Hard EngageSep 2, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Good news: We have plans for the new player experience. Really new players won't be able to modify their runes and will instead get a default page that's generally appropriate to the champion they're playing. After they've played a small number of games they'll get to pick which of a series of pre-built pages they use. Then, after another set of games (still figuring out exactly how many) they'll get the ability to customize Rune pages like anyone else. They'll have a full set of runes worth of power from the start but won't have to deal with customizing the system until they've learned the basics of how the game works.

still not an explanation of grouping, gold / exp advantage, champion synergy, power spikes, kill ranges, when to group, when to ward, and when to push down an objective, WHEN TO GROUP.

you outright explain none of it.

players need mentoring to have any hope of learning "just the basics" on a silver level.

leaving them to fend for themselves leaves them off worse than bronze for more than a year.

i could teach a slab of meat to play league on a gold level in a month.

HaIlMonitorSep 2, 20172 votes

How many people do you think just randomly start playing though? I would assume most people play with friends so they can learn through them.

Very Hard EngageSep 2, 20171 votes

a bronze can only make another bronze, otherwise they wouldn't be bronze themselves.

friends all have good concepts, like last hitting, and when to back. but even they dont know the subtleties.

or things like, vayne is 2-0, has a bf sword and you dont. legit, DONT FIGHT IT.

HaIlMonitorSep 2, 20172 votes

A Gold player cant make someone gold unless they want it. I was actually brought into this game by a bunch of bronze/aram players and currently sit in gold. I had to learn things when I wanted too. No matter how good the tutorial is people wont play it anyways, I would rather their resources go to something better.

Very Hard EngageSep 2, 20172 votes

then you realize gold is top 15%. (and the very bottom is 20%)

i met leveling players in bots who were legit trash, i taught them how to play in about 5 games giving them just basic information and not to rush into placements as soon as they hit level 30. i told them to wait and buy 16 champs that they wanted too and to continue building their rune pages, when they had a good 5 pages then they should do placements.

mfw some guys that were totally new at the game never placed into bronze.

if you play against bronze players you will forever be bronze, there is no light at the end of that tunnel, you must imitate better players to eventually become them.

i left silver in 2 weeks after i started mimicking bjerg and just copying what streamers better than myself were doing.

players need to be shown properly and what it looks like in order to know whats right and whats wrong.

i didn't know boots didn't stack until i was level 10, i just kept buying boots of lucidity on veigar, never bothered to upgrade fiendish codex either, just bought another one. (because no one taught me otherwise)

Hello I am BirdSep 3, 20171 votes

tbf, it does tell you in the shop that unique passives dont stack ._.

DemiluniSSep 3, 20171 votes

Dude, calm down, those arent basics... There are people who playing for years and dont know when to group and how to close the game and you expect Riot to teach new players how to do it? I mean anyone will eventually learn strategies, team comps, warding, etc... As a new player the basics are to get gold, get stronger than your opponent and destroy the nexus

Hyrum GraffSep 4, 20172 votes

You're forgetting the even more basic things like how you move, cast spells, or buy items, period. Believe it or not, many new players must be taught these things, and that's what the current tutorial is about. Then the next level (eg, tower ranges) is taught by intro bots, which you should really think of as tutorial part 2. Then comes the level you're talking about, which you are correct is not taught except by other players.

AuraCreedSep 3, 20171 votes

Does this mean we might also see a tutorial revamp sometime during Preseason?

Papa RinkySep 3, 20171 votes

Any plans to reduce how much XP is required to reach level 30? I think its a bit unreasonable that 2 weeks are required on average to level up a new acc, Especially now that 20 champs are required for ranked

FlyingRoboticCowSep 3, 20171 votes

Do you have a plan to unlock all summoner spells at lvl 1 because not having smite until lvl 10 doesn't deter people from jungling it just ensures they'll fail

Acheron16Sep 3, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Do you have a plan to unlock all summoner spells at lvl 1 because not having smite until lvl 10 doesn't deter people from jungling it just ensures they'll fail

This is actually super important, since you cannot properly jungle (or even learn how to) without Smite and the jungle items.

EvilDJBootySep 3, 20171 votes

{quoted}

This is actually super important, since you cannot properly jungle (or even learn how to) without Smite and the jungle items.

I am bit late to reply this but to my knowledge the spells won't have level unlocks at all. Riot recently displayed their new spell system which is you have to choose them in the shop in-game instead of champion selection screen.

Acheron16Sep 4, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I am bit late to reply this but to my knowledge the spells won't have level unlocks at all. Riot recently displayed their new spell system which is you have to choose them in the shop in-game instead of champion selection screen.

Only if you take the rune that allows you to change summoner's.

warpenguin555Sep 3, 20171 votes

Wow. Thats actually a really good idea

SukishooSep 4, 20171 votes

Now what about plans to fix the Ashe item 3075 tutorial xD

LostFr0stSep 2, 20174 votes

Firstly, there are 2 tutorials. The one you're referring to is battle training and is just to teach them how the mouse and spell commands work. The second tutorial is decent.

Secondly, this link http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/featured/new-player-guide#/?_k=assh3s is stuck to their client for the first 10-15 levels and it has a lot of information. Although there are sections such as epic monsters which need updating^^"

Akali is SO HOTSep 2, 20174 votes

Ashe item 3075

BârdSep 3, 20175 votes

Yeah, they should really teach you how to build more than just Ashe.

Bard item 3094 item 3285

Ornn item 1083

Lux support with no item 2049

CryptocurrencySep 3, 20171 votes

Lol, please support tutorial where lux builds rabadons first item xD

Fake MasksSep 4, 20171 votes

Anivia item 3085 I would like to see a tutorial where they make you build this, for no reason at all.

Douglas FunnieSep 2, 20174 votes

Why cant players learn how to play the game by playing it just like how veteran players did since the beginning? Why do developers have to hold a player's hand on how to play a competitive game? League's becoming a social game, and Riot is stripping away the competitive aspect of the game. This is disturbing.

RykagnarSep 2, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Douglas Funnie,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qNw52AxA,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-09-02T23:32:51.436+0000)

Why cant players to learn how to play the game, by playing it and learning from it like how veteran players did it since the beginning? Why do developers have to hold a player's hand on how to play a competitive game?

I didn't imply anywhere that I want Riot to hold new players hands. But when you learn how to ride a bike, your parents have to help you a bit before you get the hang of it. Then you try on your own. And you may fall over. They help you back up, but they want you to succeed by learning. Similarly, I believe that tutorials for new players SHOULD be available for the basics of the game, and perhaps even basic strategy. The fact is, if I've never played a game like League before, and I jump into it with no prior knowledge of it at all, it's not going to be fun at all, because I will have no clue what I'm doing, and the current tutorials are of little/no help.

TimX24968BSep 4, 20171 votes

riot has to do this to keep interest in the end user without compromising the size of their player base. make it too hard for people to get in, and you have what i call the "super smash bros melee" issue. yes, people still get in and learn. but its playerbase suffers ALOT from that steep learning curve. Riot doesn't want to make the learning curve for league steeper than it already is, since it tends to deter new players and slows the growth of the player base. you try to teach someone something or tell someone about something, and as soon as it gets "too complicated" or that learning curve to understand it gets a bit too steep, they lose interest. Does that mean they are more of a part of the player base or interested in the topic than you? no.

Try learning how to play soccer by going onto a field full of pros playing at the pro level, and just watch how many people no longer want to play. sure, you might not, but lots of other people that were somewhat interested before now are no longer.

MagicFlyingLlamaSep 2, 20173 votes

You mean, like how runes are well-explained and straightforward now?

RykagnarSep 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You mean, like how runes are well-explained and straightforward now?

Runes are not well explained. If you don't know what a cooldown is, or what a heal is, or what lifesteal is, all this, what you call, "well-explained and straightforward", becomes completely obsolete. New players NEED to have the basics explained to them. If they don't know how to farm, what good will runes do them?

MagicFlyingLlamaSep 2, 20174 votes

You completely missed the sarcasm, and the fact that your post makes no sense. The new system - even without any tutorial - will be way easier for new players.

RykagnarSep 2, 20172 votes

{quoted}

You completely missed the sarcasm, and the fact that your post makes no sense. The new system - even without any tutorial - will be way easier for new players.

If you wanted to get your point across, why use sarcasm? You contradicted yourself, expecting me to understand what you're saying while also being unclear. /lol. Also, the new system will most definitely NOT be easier for new players. I've introduced many friends to League, and they go through the tutorial, maybe even more than once, yet they still are lost and clueless. It's not their fault. This game is so complex, it's sad nothing has been done to change the way new players get to understand the game. Only runes will be changed. Runes WILL be complex for any new player, because they may have no idea what they even do. And if they don't understand the basics, how can they understand something that is not a part of the basics?

ChargeItDownMidSep 2, 20173 votes

[deleted]

RykagnarSep 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I mean that is just league in general. The new rune system is actually far less complex than the rune and mastery system. If you are concerned about the new players, you should be supporting it because it lowers the bar.

Honestly, I don't think it's going to be easier. While it may be a simpler interface, it doesn't mean that new players will say "oh YEAH I get it now!". Because the fact is, they may not even know how to properly farm. If they can't understand the bedrock basics of the game, then the new Runes Reforged update will only add another complexity that they will have to either 1. work through by themselves with no external help or 2. quit because it doesn't make sense.

ChargeItDownMidSep 2, 20172 votes

[deleted]

RykagnarSep 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Except you aren't comparing the rune reforge system to one without any runes and masteries, you are comparing the rune reforge system with 6 slots to the current system of 60 runes and masteries. There is no way a new player can look at both systems and think the new one is more confusing.

I'm implying that new players who decide to play after the update is implemented. It's still a confusing concept, regardless if it's simplified, to players who may not understand the core basics of the game yet.

Bless up FamSep 2, 20172 votes

i was suspecting the same thing, although i do not hope for it to be a disaster. i do believe it will be.

DeathBurstSep 4, 20172 votes

Hum, the new system won't be worse for new players to learn than the current system. The current system is terribly bad, and the new one will be just as bad, but not WORSE. If anything, it might be slightly better, since Runes are unlocked at level 1 with a default page. So even if it's not optimal at least noobs will get a decent Rune Page, instead of nothing at all or using some noob-trap set-up like Crit Damage or the likes.

EDIT: actually Meddler already answered, so it's even better than that, but I mean, even without the last info Meddler just gave, there was no point behind this thread.

RykagnarSep 4, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Hum, the new system won't be worse for new players to learn than the current system. The current system is terribly bad, and the new one will be just as bad, but not WORSE. If anything, it might be slightly better, since Runes are unlocked at level 1 with a default page. So even if it's not optimal at least noobs will get a decent Rune Page, instead of nothing at all or using some noob-trap set-up like Crit Damage or the likes.

EDIT: actually Meddler already answered, so it's even better than that, but I mean, even without the last info Meddler just gave, there was no point behind this thread.

I think you completely missed the point I was trying to make. Regardless of how much easier the runes will be to understand, it won't really matter since Riot has made no changes to how new players learn the game. Runes could be as simple as tic-tac-toe for all I care, the fact remains that this game is extremely complex and new players are often lost when they join the ranks on the Rift. There needs to be tutorials for the very basics of the games, thorough ones at that, so that players understand what they're doing before they start exploring more complex things, in comparison to the basics of the game, such as runes.

Leon xiiiNov 18, 20171 votes

Nah new runes suck. And you know what? Riot won't address this they will just go on about the blue essence shit. The runes reforged thing doesnt work for every character