Boards›Gameplay

A possible way to fix Ashe in the mobility meta

LankPants··2 votes·1,027 views

It's fairly clear that hyper mobile champions make immobile ADC's a lot worse than they would otherwise be, this problem is far worse for Ashe than it is for most ADC's as she is reliant on kitting her enemies, and it's literally impossible to kite most champs who are currently popular. Before anyone mentions that 'Ashe caused the mobility creep' she did not, at worse she catalysed the creep, but honestly I don't even think that as old champs like WW and Ramus have little problem catching her.

My suggestion to help Ashe is to rework her passive into something less utterly useless past lv 1 and into an anti-mobility ability that allows her to kite more champs if she plays well and lands consecutive auto's on them before they close to her and kill her.

Passive Focus>Frost Barbed Arrows

New passive After 3 auto attacks Ashe deals bonus physical damage based on her level and AD and applies a crippled debuff, this debuff lasts for 2 seconds and is lost if Ashe auto attacks another target. Additional auto attacks will reset the debuff timer and deal 1/4 of the passive damage.

The crippled debuff would prevent the activation of mobility moves, hopefully allowing an Ashe who plays well and lands autos on a target before they gapclose to kite champs like Lee or Zed without them just jumping and insta-gibing you. For numbers on the passive I was thinking something like 40+4 per level+60% bonus AD (meaning additional hits deal 10+1 per level +15% bonus AD) I'm not that good with numbers so this could easily be massively off.

This debuff could also be used on other champs who suffer disproportionately from the mobility creep to help position them as somewhat anti-meta champs, but I'm far too lazy to think of how it can be implemented into other kits.

13 Comments

Lord Dusteon3 votes

...but what's considered a mobility move? Would this make zed unable to use his ult or move to his W? Would this make Irelia unable to dash, or renekton unable to dash? Would this make Riven unable to use her Q or E?

There are a LOT of problems with making something that prevents "mobility moves". First, you suddenly lock out parts of someones kit that they are based on; you literally make them unable to use their skills, which is already bad enough. Second, with this and Ashe's Q she could literally kite anyone after 3 autoattacks, and the only way to kill her would be someone completely sneaking up on and nuking her, another adc dueling her (which would be hard due to Ashe's R), or mages landing all their stuff to explode her.

Making the only way to defeat someone, ever, being to choose a champion that can 100-0 people without mobility moves, choose a mage and land every single spell (and god forbid you're out of range for some of those spells), or get strong enough as an assassin to kill her before she can autoattack 3 times is not really good design.

LankPants1 votes

...but what's considered a mobility move? Would this make zed unable to use his ult or move to his W? Would this make Irelia unable to dash, or renekton unable to dash? Would this make Riven unable to use her Q or E?

Yes on all cases, the only one I can think of that bypasses it is J4's E-Q as it's two separate moves which don't have individual mobility.

There are a LOT of problems with making something that prevents "mobility moves". First, you suddenly lock out parts of someones kit that they are based on; you literally make them unable to use their skills which is already bad enough.

Roots already do this, they aren't that problematic.

Second, with this and Ashe's Q she could literally kite anyone after 3 autoattacks

The idea is that Ashe can kite anyone after 3 auto's, kiting champs is Ashe's identity, but at the moment Vayne and Ez both do it better than her.

and the only way to kill her would be someone completely sneaking up on and nuking her

It can only be applied to one champ for a reason, if you have multiple mobile champs you can most likely catch Ashe unless she plays absolutely perfectly

another adc dueling her (which would be hard due to Ashe's R), or mages landing all their stuff to explode her.

Corki , Graves , Lucian and Vayne all out duel her easy, even with arrow, unless she gets like 3 crits in a row. But you know, squishiest class in the game struggling against CC, someone must fix.

Making the only way to defeat someone, ever, being to choose a champion that can 100-0 people without mobility moves, choose a mage and land every single spell (and god forbid you're out of range for some of those spells), or get strong enough as an assassin to kill her before she can autoattack 3 times is not really good design.

And having a champ who just dies to those assassins with no way to react is a good idea? May I suggest you try playing an immobile, medium-short ranged ADC into these match-ups and see if it changes your opinion.

Lord Dusteon2 votes

{quoted}

Yes on all cases, the only one I can think of that bypasses it is J4's E-Q as it's two separate moves which don't have individual mobility.

Roots already do this, they aren't that problematic.

The idea is that Ashe can kite anyone after 3 auto's, kiting champs is Ashe's identity, but at the moment Vayne and Ez both do it better than her.

It can only be applied to one champ for a reason, if you have multiple mobile champs you can most likely catch Ashe unless she plays absolutely perfectly

Corki , Graves , Lucian and Vayne all out duel her easy, even with arrow, unless she gets like 3 crits in a row. But you know, squishiest class in the game struggling against CC, someone must fix.

And having a champ who just dies to those assassins with no way to react is a good idea? May I suggest you try playing an immobile, medium-short ranged ADC into these match-ups and see if it changes your opinion.

Roots also don't allow you to continue walking. They are very clearly "you cannot move". A cripple would be a root without the actual rooting, which is just annoying and unclear. (if someone is rooted, the things literally holding them in place are an indicator they can't move. If someone is slowed, the ice under them or yellow slow lines show it).

And that's bad design. if Vayne/Ezreal play perfectly, they can kite most people. Giving Ashe that same kiting power without her actually needing any skill except autoattack them 3 times and walk away while attacking isn't really great.

Oh, that's great to know. I only need 2 assassins/bruisers diving her at the same time to kill her. Great to know the main way to beat her is constant diving 2v1s.

...How does Vayne, Graves, or Lucian duel her. Ashe has higher range than all of them, and due to her slow + crippling their mobility + arrow she can literally stay out of their range while killing them. Vayne would probably be worst off, since literally all her skills require her to be within autoattack range to use, and without Q to gapclose she can't get in range to do anything.

Ashe presses R, assassins suddenly stuck and you either run or your team collapses on them. Guess what, the class based entirely on killing people 1v1 is good against the squishiest class based on doing extreme single target dps in teamfights. Making the squishy class suddenly able to 1v1 anyone except mages, people who used invisibility and 100-0'd her (which would actually be hard, since she could press R and then cripple them and easily win), and an adc with a higher range fighting her while her ult is down isn't good.

LankPants1 votes

Roots also don't allow you to continue walking. They are very clearly "you cannot move". A cripple would be a root without the actual rooting, which is just annoying and unclear. (if someone is rooted, the things literally holding them in place are an indicator they can't move. If someone is slowed, the ice under them or yellow slow lines show it).

Silences give a very clear indication you're silenced and you can still move. I'd imagine there would be a clear indicator above your head informing you you couldn't, a debuff on your buff bar, and similarly to silence your affected skills would be greyed out.

And that's bad design. if Vayne/Ezreal play perfectly, they can kite most people. Giving Ashe that same kiting power without her actually needing any skill except autoattack them 3 times and walk away while attacking isn't really great.

If Ez or Vayne press E they can kite most people, It's not overly hard.

Oh, that's great to know. I only need 2 assassins/bruisers diving her at the same time to kill her. Great to know the main way to beat her is constant diving 2v1s.

Or one guy with a CC, or an assassin who's smart enough to jump her prior to eating 3 AA's, she only has 600 range to AA from and at most around 1.7-1.8 attack speed. Kha's jump for examle has 600 range non-evolved and 900 rage evolved, don't think it should be too hard to jump on her before she autos you 3 times.

...How does Vayne, Graves, or Lucian duel her. Ashe has higher range than all of them, and due to her slow + crippling their mobility + arrow she can literally stay out of their range while killing them. Vayne would probably be worst off, since literally all her skills require her to be within autoattack range to use, and without Q to gapclose she can't get in range to do anything.

You really can't kite with a 50-100 range advantage, you can land an auto and back off before they can auto but not kite due to being animation locked. I'm more talking live but even with this Graves and Lucian should easily outduel her, since their burst is high enough to kill her after arrow. ADC 'duels' are also a little bit of a misnomer, they tend to go to who ever's the most fed>who ever got the jump>a strong duelest>everyone else and in a lot of cases end in one party just exploding.

Ashe presses R, assassins suddenly stuck and you either run or your team collapses on them. Guess what, the class based entirely on killing people 1v1 is good against the squishiest class based on doing extreme single target dps in teamfights.

And they still would be, the only people tagged assassin who lack a gapcloser of 600 or greater range are Ahri (who relies on range anyway), Evelynn (no shit), Fizz (but the combined range on E-Q will let him reach, and he only misses out by 50 on Q), Poppy (what do I say about this one?), Riven (This is one that would really hurt Riven, but she'd probably be OK), Shaco (deceive still stealth's, he'll be fine), Teemo (why he's classed as an assassin is beyond me), Twitch (actually outranges her), Vayne (could hurt Vayne, Vayne needs hurting) and Xerath (WTF Rito)

Making the squishy class suddenly able to 1v1 anyone except mages, people who used invisibility and 100-0'd her (which would actually be hard, since she could press R and then cripple them and easily win), and an adc with a higher range fighting her while her ult is down isn't good.

There's a counterargument about assassins duelling tanks but it belongs in a different thread. Honestly this wouldn't make assassins bad against Ashe, they still in most cases 100-0 her before she can land 3 autos. It makes mobility reliant bruisers such as Lee and Xin worse against Ashe, as they have a much harder time sticking to her and gives her an opportunity to outplay those assassins more if they misplay than anything else.

theragingnerd2 votes

{quoted}

Yes on all cases, the only one I can think of that bypasses it is J4's E-Q as it's two separate moves which don't have individual mobility.

Roots already do this, they aren't that problematic.

The idea is that Ashe can kite anyone after 3 auto's, kiting champs is Ashe's identity, but at the moment Vayne and Ez both do it better than her.

It can only be applied to one champ for a reason, if you have multiple mobile champs you can most likely catch Ashe unless she plays absolutely perfectly

Corki , Graves , Lucian and Vayne all out duel her easy, even with arrow, unless she gets like 3 crits in a row. But you know, squishiest class in the game struggling against CC, someone must fix.

And having a champ who just dies to those assassins with no way to react is a good idea? May I suggest you try playing an immobile, medium-short ranged ADC into these match-ups and see if it changes your opinion.

BECAUSE THAT IS THE POINT THE IDEA SHE NEEDS A NEW PASSIVE BUT NOT THAT

SmokingPuffin3 votes

Your passive is broken. Guarantees kills by eliminating counterplay for her slow.

Ashe is not in a bad place on live. You should think small quality of life changes for her, not huge amounts of new power.

"Denies mobility effects" is more appropriate on an item than a champion, anyway.

LankPants1 votes

I kind of see what you're saying, but it was 3:30 when I wrote this and I kind of good enoughed it. I meant to add that it didn't disable flash, but forgot too.

"Denies mobility effects" is more appropriate on an item than a champion, anyway.

I'd also love to see an item with these effects.

ifaux2 votes

Instead of changing her passive, just make it conditional. If she can land 3 consecutive AAs + W, she gets some movement speed increase. At this point, there are a few champions that can eat R+W+kiting with boots and MS Quints.... so.. there is a legitimate issue there.

LankPants1 votes

A move speed boost does nothing to help her, mobile bruiser still sticks to her like glue.

Most champs have no problems catching her with R+W+Boots. (no-one runs MS quints on Ashe) I honestly believe they should, since Ashe is meant to be the queen of kite.

Meserion2 votes

the real problem is certain ADCs have mobility in the 1st place. ADCs are suppose to be the slow moving heavy artillery howitzers in LoL that do absurd damage but have the drawback of having no escapes or mobility.

Those mobile ADCs are cheap because they do as much damage as the less mobile ones and have none of the traditional drawbacks of an ADC.

LankPants1 votes

That's not ever going to get fixed now though. If Riot decided to remove all mobile ADC's from the game or at least nerf them hard this thread would be entirely irrelevant, but that's not going to happen.

Kuroi861 votes

My suggestion to help Ashe is to rework her passive into something less utterly useless past lv 1

Stopped reading here. Ashe' passive actually gets better as the game goes on. After getting item 3031 & item 3046 or item 3087 it takes maybe six seconds for her passive to stack and give you a guaranteed crit on your next auto. Combine this with her ult and E and you've got significant burst on an ADC. Her passive needs tweaks, but is anything but useless.

LankPants1 votes

Once you get approx 50% crit your passive goes from on average doubling the damage of your first AA to a 50% increase, since you had a 50% chance to land the crit anyway. While it takes six seconds to stack it still only applies once per fight, as it's six seconds without AA'ing.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by LankPants

@RiotSolcrushed You Failed to make Sejuani Feel Like a Leader
Gameplay154 comments
84
votes
Tanks Need a God-Tier Core Item.
Gameplay249 comments
47
votes
Problems with the Sejuani Rework
Gameplay36 comments
30
votes
The Problem With Mana Regen
Gameplay26 comments
26
votes
@Riot Solidify your Balance Philosophies
Gameplay27 comments
21
votes
Why is Elise a Tank in the Current Meta?
Gameplay52 comments
16
votes