What if Sona's heal is now based on how close she is to her ally?

Sona x Rubick·Jul 18, 2016·59 votes·3,274 views

something like:

base value: 40/50/60/70/80 (+17.5% AP) increased by 10% for every 125 range the target is closer (capped at 50%) meaning that if the target is at 400 range (aura range) or less it gets healed by 40/60/80/100/120(+25% AP) (same value as PBE). ** this would for example makes a good pick against her because he can seperate sona and her ADC which makes the heal weaker.**

sona would have to manage the range between her and her ADC, when she should close the gap to heal or when she should run to be safe. just an idea that came out of my mind...

79 Comments

Valor BotJul 18, 201612 votes

Makes sense, the closer you are the better you can hear her music :) gameplay-wise, though, it would make Sona quite susceptible against teams with high AoE potential

Sona x RubickJul 18, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valor Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qAvAGYjj,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-07-18T00:23:18.214+0000)

it would make Sona quite susceptible against teams with high AoE potential

it's already happening with that shield range, this change would just give her W some limit like soraka has to manage her HP to heal, sona would have to manage the range between her and her ADC, when she should close the gap to heal or when she should run to be safe.

Valor BotJul 18, 20162 votes

That's true, it would provide a higher mastery potential for Sona players because they'd have to learn the appropriate distances for the kinds of heals they want

AzeranthJul 18, 20162 votes

its "widening the skill curve"

ElikainJul 18, 20161 votes

I have a better idea. ##Sona could heal for the same value in all ranges BUT she heals instantly if it's a range 450 or less and turn the rest of the healing into a slow regen effect (like a Soraka) if targets are on max - 450 ranges? That also scales on the distance like you suggested but some of that heal is instant and the rest is turned into regen?

AhristocatsJul 18, 20161 votes

the more sona's gameplay is flawed with counterplay, the easier it is for riot to balance her

Slamurai JackJul 18, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valor Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qAvAGYjj,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-07-18T00:23:18.214+0000)

Makes sense, the closer you are the better you can hear her** music** :)

Yeah, sure, her music. Definitely her music. The Music should heal male champs extra too, at least give them a stats boost or something. You know, because they're so invigorated by the Music.

SchoenbergJul 18, 20166 votes

Come closer to me Sona... ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

DrugsForRobotsJul 18, 20165 votes

This is the kind of utility I'm talking about!

A very interesting and flavorful (delicious!) design!

I'm not sure about your numbers, but that's where Riot comes in. Shaco

Sona x RubickJul 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm not sure about your numbers, but that's where Riot comes in.

true

Penguin EclipseJul 18, 20165 votes

This is actually a really interesting idea. I wouldn't make it PBE value though. If she is going to get that close she should be getting the live value. It is strong, yes. But it would have counter play. Something she does not have now with her current 1000 range.

Rico NastyJul 18, 20163 votes

Could this possibly be her new passive? And add this for all of her abilities?

AhristocatsJul 18, 20162 votes

it's changes like this that we need and yet what riot can bring to us is -20 hp heal and a nerf to her ms out of combat.

Jeanne fan clubJul 18, 20162 votes

A system like that wouldn't work very well. Mostly because there would be almost no coordination to make a heal like that work. I think what needs to happen right now is the ap ratio needs to be reduced. The introduction to heal and shield amp a couple patches ago is what is causing this utility buff on sona to be so good.

Sona's ult changes caused her to become a late game support carry. Right now Her Q ratio is too high, and the % sheild + heal amp applies on sonas Shield and Heal. She would cut it as a balanced late game support carry if her ratios were nerfed, seeing as she is late game because she can spam her abilities late becasue of her ult passive. She should be scaling with ult level and cd rather than just flat ap.

Sona x RubickJul 18, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=9 Tailed Waifu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qAvAGYjj,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-07-18T01:34:30.334+0000)

A system like that wouldn't work very well. Mostly because there would be almost no coordination to make a heal like that work ver y well

how can you be so sure?

Jeanne fan clubJul 18, 20161 votes

With everyone so mobile atm I can only imagine every team fight ending up being a clown rodeo trying to get meaningful heals off while your teammates bounce off the walls like a bunch of first graders on crack. I think the Shield aura rewards players enough for being close to Sona. I think the heal just needs a flat ratio + base nerf because of all the Sheild + heal amp with ardent and mikeals.

Actually, now that I think about it, why not just give the heal a flat nerf, base heal and ap ratio heal, but buff the shields ap ratio so that it encourages people to actually stay in the aura of the "aura support." I understand that you want people to benefit from actually being in sonas aura, but I'm not sure that nerfing the projectiles efficiency at ranges would be the best option. Maybe Nerfing the W projectile range as well as the ratio and base heal would do the trick. Maybe a system where the Heal will not connect if the target leaves the max range of it?

Using your Idea a little bit, why not just make the Heal do less if they aren't in Sona's aura at all? Having the heal do more when closer is not inherently a bad Idea, but making it scale off of range like a hydra in my opinion does.

I think the values that you are using aren't a very good match with the 125 increments. If someone is Right on the edge of Sona's aura, then the heal would be doing 96 + .21 AP. If they move 25 units closer, then they will be healed for 104 + .2275 AP. Those 2 values would be the usual if they are inside your aura. Its not very common that a teammate would stand directly inside of you for a heal lol. Also, that's at max lvl. Since Sona maxes Q first, the Heal would be practically nonexistant during lane phase. 48+ .21 ap / 52 + .2275 ap until it forces you to put another point into it. Sona needs to max Q first because her heal + shield is pitiful compared to other supports who specialize with those 2. Her Q is her overall strongest ability and needs to be maxed first if you want to win lane. Also, people moving back and forth through the ranges of your W might screw up the healing that It will do. A system like this would destroy her consistency when it comes to heals.

Maybe I should rephrase what I said in my previous post. I don't think that making a system like that would work with the heal projectile, however I think that there are better Ideas to promote Sona's aura playstyle.

I just think that her Q and W ratios need to be nerfed, The W projectile needs to be hit pretty hard with a base and AP ratio nerf, but the shield might need a little bit of a buff to compensate for the W nerf. Her biggest problem is her scaling. Her ult allows for her to become a late game hypersupport carry. That wouldn't be such a problem if her values were lower.

AzeranthJul 18, 20164 votes

Clown ~~rodeo~~ Fiesta trying to get meaningful heals off while your teammates bounce off the walls like a bunch of first graders on crack.

And this would be fairly reasonable. It would make Sona far more reliant on sticking close to her Carry as they engage, weakening the engage power of their Laning, discouraging Sona from building AP and picking up a few tank stats, and would make Sona the go to for low mobility ADCs such as Jhin or Draven (he has no insta- gap closer sorta). This idea of pairing Sona with low mobility ADCs makes complete and total sense because her stun (which is SUCH ABSOLUTE HORSE****) makes up entirely for the lack of leap, dash or blink on champs such as Lucian or Trist. Rather than nerfing Sona's AP ratios or just making a boring "fix" to her monstrous scaling, changing the way she operates in the game is far more reasonable.

Also important to note as 9 Tailed Waifu so brightly points out, she is not a heal based champion, therefore making her heals and shields far less potent at a range give the edge to champions who deserve it in the heal and shield department. It further encourages Sona to be close because in order to be anything other than a light bum tickling, she needs to get up close if she wants her heal to do ANYTHING at all. what I think Waifu missed, is that she is TOO reliable and by expanding her skill and communication curve, her reliability goes down and makes it easier for lanes to dominate her, but when properly executed with the proper lane partner she can remain a game changing beast in the right hands. Riot explicitly says in their consider the following post on the front page that balance is based around Professional and higher tier play. Making Sona a more situational, skill based, snowballing champion are all things that lend themselves to high tier play

Below is a simple Pro Con chart:

PROS:

Low mobility ADCs would have a means to compete with high mobility ADCs, making Jhin vs Lucian less of a one sided match up
Sona would have her untouchable back line status removed, making her far easier to eliminate and encouraging her to itemize towards tankier stats more reflective of a support not a mid-laner
Sona would remain viable in other lanes (because Riot loves to never lock anyone into one place) because her beastly ratios are still a factor. Making her far more of a glass cannon caster dependent on keeping her meatsheild alive. I personally like this interactivity between Sona and tanks because it makes a good front line far more impactful in a team fight and can also extend the danger of an AP Sona's newfound glass cannon lifestyle when fighting without tanks making them a greater priority and rewarding smart players who pick their targets wisely.
By making someone like Sona have to remain close to the minions and ADC who is CSing to be effective at sustaining (because Mana costs WHOOO!), lane trades become more viable and the determination of lane dominance simply by who has a larger auto range loses some importance in exchange for the power of a Sona who is ahead

CONS:

Everyone who plays Sona will whine and complain because she isn't the same, her viability is lessened, and that it doesn't fit their playstyle anymore (OH WELL!)
Hard engage comps would lose some of their power when a Sona is involved because of her need to get into the fray with them, driving her even more towards some tank stats.
Siege comps and teams with good disengage would have these fortes fortissimoed (get it? its a music pun) because of the power of her AoE heals up close which may upset some of current balancing
Ashe and Sona can no longer stun lock, out-sustain, out-poke, out-farm, out-scale EVERY OTHER LANE IN THE GAME

In conclusion, I personally think that simply nerfing the champions scaling or altering their stats can very easily lead to the new Ryze debacle. Such tools should be reserved for tweaking only and should never be a first thought. Old Fiora was absolutely brain dead as far as skill went and was also super beastly, but in newer Fiora, she is a hard scaling Duelist master (like originally intended) that will destroy everyone else for the most part as well as having strengths, weaknesses, and outplay potential. Naturally her scalings were altered, but it was a REWORK not a nerf or a buff. Altering the functionality of a champion and creating a Sona 2.0 is what's needed or we ill simply get a Frankenstein of scaling alterations that will ricochet between she is useless and she is absurdly broken when scaled. I would like to see Riot tackle the problem at its root creating a better, more diverse, and fun champion who I would gladly lane with and against instead of making her weaker because the same power of her playstyle will remain, they will just find new ways too abuse her until eventually the common folk can't use her at all.

QweraRandolphzJul 18, 20162 votes

Bad design for healers, if anything it should scale off ally up %, healing more for lower hp

http://www.pvpdatabase.com/?p=1234

BloodyTomponJul 18, 20161 votes

I agree, I don't think it's a good design and I do not see the benefit to it. It seems to be borne of a problem space that has more simple solutions (i.e., make Sona move closer to her ally => nerf the range).

Hyrum GraffJul 18, 20162 votes

This wouldn't work the way you want it. The idea behind it is that if Sona moves closer to her adc for more heal, they'll be vulnerable to aoe. This is how it would actually work:

>In lane >Gets poked >"Hey adc back off for a second so I can stand on you and we can heal back to full" >... >Profit

You could modify this to get the affect you want by making the shield scale with distance.

BloodyTomponJul 18, 20162 votes

More to the point, what is this trying to solve? If the goal is to make her closer to the ADC just nerf the range. This feels like a solution searching for a problem IMO.

chipndip1Jul 18, 20162 votes

I don't buy it. Most of the time she's already pretty close to allies during team fights, so 1k range heals aren't even the problem. To boot, you'd have to give more reward to closer heals, so you'd only BUFF her team fight if you scaled it fairly and nerf her unnecessarily if you did it to just to nerf her, which just nerfing the healing does.

Besides, what if...and hear me out on this...what if it was the shield, that covers five people, that could be addressed instead of doubling down on the heal? The thing DOES have a .3 ap ratio and a higher base now.

maikokkJul 18, 20161 votes

believe it or not... it isnt her lane presence that is the most overbearing. her heal autotargets low health targets and shield synergizes with every support item ever. with sona not needing to be positioned correctly to carry a team fight invisably she just turns into a blunt weapon in team fights

chipndip1Jul 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

believe it or not... it isnt her lane presence that is the most overbearing. her heal autotargets low health targets and shield synergizes with every support item ever. with sona not needing to be positioned correctly to carry a team fight invisably she just turns into a blunt weapon in team fights

I'm not talking about her laning. I'm talking about her in general. Sona's W is mainly for the shield, not the heal, since it can cover 5 champs instead of 2. When you're in team fights, you're not literally hugging people anymore, but you're not 5 miles away from the situation like Sona was before when she had 1,000 range auras. It's still 400 range. It's not THAT far away, and she still has to be involved in fights to get the most out of her kit.

It just means that Sona should be treated like Soraka more in the sense that it might be wise to remove her from the fight earlier rather than later.

Sozan5Jul 18, 20162 votes

I'd say let's hit her Q range first.

Right now it's 850, which means she can safely poke basically everyone in bot lane. Reducing her Q range would make her take a decent risk to poke enemies.

For her W, they could transfer some strength of the heal into the shield. For example:

Heal: 30/50/70/90/110 +20% AP (from 40/65/90/115/140 +25% AP) Shield: 40/70/100/130/160 +35% AP (from 30/55/80/105/130 +30% AP)

And another thing that could be nerfed is the passive on W, which is damage reduction. Make it scale with ranks and reduce the scaling (because the scaling is damn high) - again, example: 17/19/21/23/25% +3% for 100 AP (from 25% +4% for 100 AP).

chipndip1Jul 18, 20163 votes

{quoted}

I'd say let's hit her Q range first.

Right now it's 850, which means she can safely poke basically everyone in bot lane. Reducing her Q range would make her take a decent risk to poke enemies.

For her W, they could transfer some strength of the heal into the shield. For example:

Heal: 30/50/70/90/110 +20% AP (from 40/65/90/115/140 +25% AP) Shield: 40/70/100/130/160 +35% AP (from 30/55/80/105/130 +30% AP)

And another thing that could be nerfed is the passive on W, which is damage reduction. Make it scale with ranks and reduce the scaling (because the scaling is damn high) - again, example: 17/19/21/23/25% +3% for 100 AP (from 25% +4% for 100 AP).

The bolts on her Q do even less damage now. No one gives a crap about her Q bolts from 850 range. They don't even really care about the auto after it anymore. It's the powerchord hit people care about.

Also, the shield is already potentially stronger than the heal by a wide margin. The W itself just needs to be nerfed a bit on its end-game bases, period.

Sona x RubickJul 18, 20161 votes

If you played against sona, you would realise that what's broken right now is the heal

the Q is underwhelming right now, and if you want to deal the same damage as before, you have to be in 550 range, not in 850 range.

same for the damage reduction, it's decent when you have tons of AP that's all. you shouldn't nerf what is not a problem.

BloodyTomponJul 18, 20162 votes

There's not a great deal of gameplay benefit to that. That would have a fair bit of detrimental effects for the nona player i'd imagine. It would be more frustrating to use, harder to optimise, more difficult to see if it's being done correctly, more invisible, I'm sure there would be more than I can't come up with on the fly.

It feel like your goal is to make Sona move closer to her ally. But if that's the goal, why not just nerf her range? That's a much simpler way of achieving the same thing goal.

Sona x RubickJul 18, 20162 votes

{quoted}

There's not a great deal of gameplay benefit to that. That would have a fair bit of detrimental effects for the nona player i'd imagine. It would be more frustrating to use, harder to optimise, more difficult to see if it's being done correctly, more invisible,

Nop not at all, i did it on purpose that the maximum healing is done within the aura range, so you can know WHICH range you should use to get the maximum of benefit

{quoted}

It feel like your goal is to make Sona move closer to her ally. But if that's the goal, why not just nerf her range? That's a much simpler way of achieving the same thing goal.

read above. If you do that she would just be within the range of her ally and **never walk **outside of it, the gameplay would be far more limited than if you nerfed the heal based on the distance between sona and her ally.

SanKakUJul 18, 20162 votes

I would still choose to tweak your numbers if I were Riot. The concept is pretty good though.

Sona x RubickJul 18, 20161 votes

my bad, i'm not that good on numbers i think riot is (i dare say)

SanKakUJul 18, 20161 votes

If they were good with numbers, Sona wouldn't be this out of control. They'd probably make it so she can heal her mid in lane while she's warding the dragon.

TheDiamondCokkieJul 18, 20162 votes

I know why you brought that up. Sona x Rubick is ur nick. So it means that you want this to happen because you want to see some Sona x ADC ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Sona x RubickJul 18, 20161 votes

rubick is a dota2 character i picked my most favorite character of dota2 and league to do this name :^)

TheDiamondCokkieJul 18, 20161 votes

but still Sona x Rubick ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 18, 20161 votes

a better idea would be to increase the heal based off which song she played last and make certain combinations matter more.

Q takes W off cooldown and reduces the cooldown of E by 1 second but adds 2 seconds to W after for 3 seconds.

Something like this could make some clever things happen and she'd actually have to play music in battle

RiverWind0407Jul 18, 20161 votes

this sounds like ryze plastered onto sona

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 18, 20162 votes

{quoted}

this sounds like ryze plastered onto sona

hue! problem?

BloodyTomponJul 18, 20161 votes

Yes. The only one on Sona should be Morde. Hue hue!

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yes. The only one on Sona should be Morde. Hue hue!

armored etoileists sounds even worse than armored bears

RiverWind0407Jul 19, 20161 votes

lol nope i guess not

PunkkeeJul 18, 20161 votes

the entire team would want to be close to sona and then AoE fucks them

AzeranthJul 18, 20164 votes

Exactly, its called counter play. Sona is powerful. not against someone with LOTS of AoE or splash damage

GibberwattJul 18, 20161 votes

But then you would get the same situations you get with soraka, where you are chasing your dumb top/mid/jng/adc across the map, trying to heal their butt, and they, for some reason, seem intent on keeping their health at 50%

SanKakUJul 18, 20161 votes

Rofl I don't have that problem with Soraka. I intentionally don't heal someone with low health for prolonged periods of time so that I can heal the characters that aren't at 100 percent but also aren't giving me that awesome movement speed buff and so that I can make those awesome silence plays.

Anyway, if it is a nerf to Sona, we could really use it.

GibberwattJul 18, 20161 votes

That's an interesting idea, about htat whole let one dude be your speed boost. Sadly, tho, I am bronze, and people just dive back in, even if they are at 25%. Thus, I have to heal everyone. spam all the heals, and stuff.

SanKakUJul 18, 20161 votes

There's usually someone like a Fizz or a Xerath that doesn't need healing...either through their long range or through their invulnerability shenanigans.

GibberwattJul 19, 20161 votes

I'm still bronze, tho. the xerath will try to frontline, and the fizz will dive 1v5 using his jumpy thingy

RozzetaJul 18, 20161 votes

It's an interesting change, although it'd surely create awkward situations trying to sustain a siege since her heal goes directly to the less %HP ally. I was personally more of the mind that, outside lane phase, her heal is not as good as the utility of W, so if Sona ever became overbuffed (which I thought impossible at the time) I thought it would be cool to have a decaying effect of her "auras" (as music goes off and becomes less audible) making allies tagged by the "auras" receive less of a benefit the more time Sona takes to tag them. Unfortunately, the current cooldowns make that redundant.

DeathBot666Jul 19, 20161 votes

Remove the % cap. The ultimate counter to Orianna ulti.

(Since people still take me serious with just /s, I have to NOW ad a whole sentence to say I was kidding.)

Although seriously it sounds like a good idea, as it would at least add SOME extra strategy rather than just 1 skill shot and 3 AoE spells. Here you would have to decide between that weaker heal while playing safer, or getting right up to your ADC and risk being both hit by skillshots like Bard q.