It sounds like it's going to be a Poppy/Sion/Taric level full relaunch judging from what I've heard. Is the Q chaining at least staying? That's the only part of Irelia I need in my life :p
RiotMeddler11 votesHere's where we're up to with Irelia:
"Maybe we should do a full update on Irelia someday? Her theme's really cool, but underutilized, and her gameplay's a mixture of cool and problematic"
We don't have a schedule, mapped out set of problems to definitely address, list of iconic elements to maintain etc, let alone any firm thoughts on ability changes. Bare minimum we won't be working Irelia this year, it's also possible we conclude other champions are better fits for next year too (Eve? Urgot? Pantheon? etc).
MunchCrunchLunch1 votesJax? is he on the long list for rework/update . quite frankly he needs a vgu. or at least a vu. not as much as urgot but as much as pantheon. am sure he won't be touched for at least a year because other champions need it more than him (kayle.) but I'd like to see some sort of a hybrid fighters update. the itemization is weird and limited to say the least.
i somewhat include irelia in this hybrid fighter type she does benefit from ap. but not as much as kayle or jax. or a better term on hit fighters
Irelia Bot1 votesSo basically what you are saying is that Irelia has issues but they are minimal enough that she is not a priorty since many other champs have far greater issues.
Please if she has to get nerfed because of upcoming trinity changes be to the point of the main issue which will likely be over tuned and not beating around the bush and then doing a hard nerf to what the issue is.
Also consider nerfing Trinity and giving Jax about half of the stat loss he had in season 4 back. He was over nerfed back then.
The biggest potential issue I am seeing with new trintiy is likely too much CDR potentially making it too strong.
Do you know if Movement speed has ever been considered to replaced the CDR on Sheen? It seems like it would work just fine, Trinity and lich bane have movement speed already and this would better diversify IBG from Frozen heart if it had lower CDR and some movement speed.
Oleandervine8 votesHere's where we're up to with Irelia:
"Maybe we should do a full update on Irelia someday? Her theme's really cool, but underutilized, and her gameplay's a mixture of cool and problematic"
We don't have a schedule, mapped out set of problems to definitely address, list of iconic elements to maintain etc, let alone any firm thoughts on ability changes. Bare minimum we won't be working Irelia this year, it's also possible we conclude other champions are better fits for next year too (Eve? Urgot? Pantheon? etc).
Omg, please Evelynn and Pantheon. And whatever you do, make Pantheon shirtless and gorgeous!
Irelia Bot5 voteswant shirtless Panth?
There's a skin for that.
Big Lincoln4 voteswhy not every skin though
Oleandervine2 votes[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pvy7aELw,comment-id=000100020000,timestamp=2016-05-21T02:08:38.116+0000)
want shirtless Panth?
There's a skin for that.
Yeah, but the whole mask thing is just tacky in my opinion.
Ralanr1 votes
?
Though granted you're probably just throwing out examples to help emphasize that there are more champions that need help before Irelia. But if Pantheon is getting some rework work in coming year, then I am excited.
Jesus is Savior3 votesHere's where we're up to with Irelia:
"Maybe we should do a full update on Irelia someday? Her theme's really cool, but underutilized, and her gameplay's a mixture of cool and problematic"
We don't have a schedule, mapped out set of problems to definitely address, list of iconic elements to maintain etc, let alone any firm thoughts on ability changes. Bare minimum we won't be working Irelia this year, it's also possible we conclude other champions are better fits for next year too (Eve? Urgot? Pantheon? etc).
Please don't rework Eve. Just VU her.
If she becomes a problem just nerf her back into a 45% winrate. Most Eve mains would rather you do that than ruin her with a rework.
Linna Excel1 votesWhat are riot's main issues with her?
What would she be remade into?
Would you slightly buff her jungle but not at the expense of her top lane potential?
MunchCrunchLunch3 votesad caster would be my guess. more of an ad casster i should say.
LankPants3 votesI really hope not. I always really liked Irelia as primarily an auto attacker who's spells are mostly about sticking to targets and AAing them down, it's probably one of the things that made me enjoy playing Irelia in the first place. If this was forsaken in favour of a more spell heavy approach I'd actually be very disappointed, especially since there are already so many other casters, I don't see why Irelia should be one of them.
Ultîma2 votesSo many other AD casters???
Maybe I'm crazy, but 8 champions across a roster of +- 130 isn't a lot.
Both Irelia's theme and her gameplay - a telekinetic blade wielding warrior - have strong leanings towards reworking her towards an AD-caster playstyle. It's already represented pretty strongly in her Q and R, specifically, with the notable balance-problem areas being her current passive and her E. As it stands, like old Poppy, she can't ever be strong otherwise she spirals out of control and can facetank teams while insta-gibbing carries. I'd welcome a chance to see Irelia in her full bladed glory.
MunchCrunchLunch1 votesrenekton is an ad caster. garen is an ad caster. poppy is an ad caster
LankPants2 votesSo many other AD casters???
Most of these aren't even that AD casters I think it's fair to compare Irelia to. You should be comparing her to melee AD casters, for example 
and 
.
Caster:
(mega) 
(iffy if AD) 
Hybrid:
(AAs like spells) 
AA Centric:
Maybe I'm crazy, but 8 champions across a roster of +- 130 isn't a lot.
I just listed 14 casters and I'm not even looking at a set of 130 characters. I'm only looking at the set of melee ADs, which is the relevant set here and that makes the total 14 of 36 characters being pure or mostly pure casters or 38.9%. Only 10 of 36 are pure or close to pure AA champs, or 27.8%.
Both Irelia's theme and her gameplay - a telekinetic blade wielding warrior - have strong leanings towards reworking her towards an AD-caster playstyle.
Maybe her theme leads this way (I'd make arguments to the contrary) but her gameplay certainly doesn't. In terms of gameplay she's an auto attack centric bruiser. Any rework which ignored this fact would be a terrible rework. Irelia has a fan base and the fan base she has expects her to play like Irelia, not like some randomly sown together caster.
she can't ever be strong otherwise she spirals out of control and can facetank teams while insta-gibbing carries.
This is endemic of casters. If you look at casters like Renekton and Darius they will often fall into this pattern. Characters like Irelia and Jax tend not to unless there's an immensely broken item. Normally they will take several AAs to kill a target giving them and their team far more reaction time.
Making Irelia a caster would make her more likely to fit this definition.
I'd welcome a chance to see Irelia in her full bladed glory.
You don't even have a single game of Irelia on your OP.GG, why do you care?
Ultîma1 votesIrelia's original design intentions really didn't have her set to be a heavy auto-attacker. It's largely through player input that it was discovered Irelia's kit made her into an absurdly powerful bruiser because of how overloaded her kit was at the time of her release. Moreover, you ignore my argument that her E and passive are poorly designed, and at the heart of her balance issues. It's all great and fine that Irelia uses auto-attacks to kill a target, but I'd argue the most fun aspects of her kit lie in her Q and R since they both exemplify high moments of gameplay and visceral displays of power.
Idk why this needs to be said but you don't need to play a champion to a.) appreciate their design b.) understand problems/areas of improvement in their gameplay c.) wanting them to be more fun to play with and against d.) have a distinct gameplay identity
As an Irelia player, do you have ideas that could improve her instead of attacking someone who sincerely wishes for her to be better?
Irelia Bot1 votesIs it the play style of a champ that defines a champ or the supposed theme of the champ that defines the champ.
Irelia has a play style that is by all means largely focused around sheen procs one after another and on hit . Those are the 2 main aspects of her play style and they do go fairly well together.
Her passive is strong or yet weak depending on who you are facing since it can be either 40% CC reduction or none depending on the type of CC. It could be more interesting? Sure. But resistance to CC is a valuable tool if it can be used.
Jax and perhaps Lucian are only others that really falls in this same group of super high synergy with Trinity in both attack speed and sheen procs based on how they are usually played. With a few others like Xin, Fiora, Ezreal and Vi having potentially similar aspects but not having the short enough comedowns to make sheen procs nearly as much of a focus point or not nearly as much of a value put on attack speed for on hit.
Ultîma1 votes[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pvy7aELw,comment-id=00010005000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-05-21T17:46:47.186+0000)
Is it the play style of a champ that defines a champ or the supposed theme of the champ that defines the champ.
Fiora is a pretty good example of a champion that had an older kit that really didn't translate itself well into representing the playstyle of a fencer. She went from being a burst assassin highly reliant on quickly executing a combo, like Talon or Zed, to a melee hypercarry reliant on passive procs, AA resets and more sustained engages. I would agree that weaving Sheen procs is a very important part of Irelia's kit, and one of her best expression of player skill, and I think there's room to explore that if her kit relied on sustained telekinetic blade strikes. Truth by told I'm surprised there just isn't that much range in her kit to begin with - you'd think her R wouldn't be her only means of catching someone at a distance.
As for the Tenacity, right now it's extremely binary - makes her impossible to deal with for champions reliant on cc and inconsequential against characters that don't. It's also a great deal of invisible power that doesn't have good readability in game. Conditional tenacity effects have had a lot of success (Alistair's and Olaf's ults, Eve and Garen's mobility) and I think her tenacity could be placed in her Hiten style skill in favour of giving her a more interesting and engaging passive.
Irelia Bot3 votesFiora had some rather bad issues mainly due to her old ult having no real counterplay, Riposte beign basically worthless against a number of situations and overall kit feeing like it failed to work together all that well.
Once her old ult was going there was nothing you could do to stop it or react to it. You could not have a janna ult or Ali Headbutt interrupt it.
In that Fiora needed some real changes to her kit and displayed issues that Riot considered important enough to move her rework up above a lot of older champs. Her new Kit is far healthier and addressed at least to some degree the issues she had. She is not perfect but far better.
While Irelia might have some issues she is not displaying a lack of things you can do against her when she is even or a bit ahead. And Riot has been saying that they want to rework for for as long as I have been playing but clearly she is not that much of an issue given that other champs are constantly being put ahead of her.
LankPants1 votesIrelia's original design intentions really didn't have her set to be a heavy auto-attacker.
She was always a primary auto attacker. If you look at what she's building in her champion spotlight she has a Youmuu's and old Stark's, both of which were AS items.
The game was fundamentally different when Irelia launched. AD casters weren't a thing, If you were an AD champ you were an auto attacker. Riot's only real foray into an AD caster up to that point was Pantheon, but he was just built Triforce>Ghostblade and played as a sort of soft AAer because there weren't better options. AD casters didn't really start being a thing until Riven's release, almost a year after Irelia's.
It's all great and fine that Irelia uses auto-attacks to kill a target, but I'd argue the most fun aspects of her kit lie in her Q and R since they both exemplify high moments of gameplay and visceral displays of power.
I actually enjoy chase-down and auto attack styles far more than casters. For the most part I've found casters to have very bland "mash all the keys" styles. I don't know why this style is so prevalent amongst AD casters, it's not in mages but it seems like almost every AD caster plays this way. The only two exceptions I've found are Riv and GP, but I just don't enjoy GP's barrel chaining so that leaves Riven as the only AD caster I enjoy.
If you don't like AA centric champions that's fine, don't play them. Don't call for them to be changed into casters just because you don't enjoy them, because other people do.
As an Irelia player, do you have ideas that could improve her instead of attacking someone who sincerely wishes for her to be better?
She doesn't need that much. All she'd actually need is passive changes. I'd agree that her passive probably isn't that great for the game, but nothing else on her kit is really bad, I actually think she has quite a good kit considering it's 5 and a half years old. It probably is the best kit from her time by quite a long way.
Sahn Uzal1 votes 
(raw AD/armor pen build)
(AD/armor pen build)
(mega)
can all be considered AD casters. They're AD champions who rely on abilities to deal their damage.
Ultîma1 votesSorry but I`ll interject here; not every champion that has AD ratios/damage in their abilities can be considered an AD caster. Yes, their skills incorporate the appropriate damage type, but Hecarim is more akin to a Vanguard tank than a caster. Darius is a Juggernaut. Poppy a vanguard, etc. If these character's kits involved AP damage like Malphite they would never be considered caster-mages.
Sahn Uzal1 voteswowowo slow down there, an AD caster is not a subclass! An AD caster is a champion that scales with Attackdamage and primarly uses their abilities for damage output.
Ultîma1 votesSo, the entire cast of champions that builds AD in any measure?
Sahn Uzal1 votesNo.
uses his basic attacks as his primarily and basically only source of damage
uses her abilities quite often, but her AA's are her main source of damage
Can play like an AD caster by building raw AD and Armor pen (things like youmuus)
Or he can build things like Phantom dancer and use his AA's as his main source of damage
Abyssphere3 votesMost of Irelia's problems stem from her focus on auto attacks, though, particularly the lack of thematic resonance in her kit. If she's going to properly fulfil the telekinetic blade manipulator thing she's supposed to, she's going to be needing to do more interesting stuff than whacking people over the head with her blades repeatedly to output her damage. She should be using them in interesting and intelligent ways or she'll never do justice to the character she's supposed to be. She has a magic bond with her blades but if she is only using them to hit people straight out she may as well have any random sword.
Gameplay-wise pretty much every melee auto-attack bruiser is a design disaster and the only ones with real counterplay (Yasuo, Fiora) are despised by the community even more than the ball of stat alternatives (Irelia, Jax) so I'm not sure it's advisable to try and make Irelia healthier than she is in the auto-attack bruiser design space. She'd be much, much more likely to succeed as an AD caster because that design is inherently less offensive.
Overall I think that Irelia as a character was never a good fit for the type of champion you want her to be. She'll always be at odds with her character if she's based on autos.
LankPants1 votesGameplay-wise pretty much every melee auto-attack bruiser is a design disaster and the only ones with real counterplay (Yasuo, Fiora) are despised by the community even more than the ball of stat alternatives (Irelia, Jax)
You're confusing counterplay and outplay potential.
Counterplay is the ability of your team to react appropriately to a character, it's often not individual and is normally strategical rather than mechanical. This is often stratagies such as picking on a weak early game or forcing a champ who can't splitpush into a splitpush scenario. Irelia and Jax have far more counterplay than Fiora and Yasuo.
Outplay potential is the ability to beat a champ with mechanical proficiency. This isn't actually counterplay as when the champion plays well you cannot outplay them. High outplay actually correlates to low counterplay, champs like Zed, Lee and Fiora actually don't have high counterplay because your only option to play against them is to be a better player, you can't pick on strategical weaknesses because these champs are just too well rounded and can play too many strategical roles.
I'd also argue Yas and especially Fiora aren't AA based. Yas's damage is as much from his Q as his AAs and Fiora is heavily reliant on her Q. I'd consider them both to be hybrid AA/Casters.
She'd be much, much more likely to succeed as an AD caster because that design is inherently less offensive.
Is it? Last I checked people often complain about champs like Riven, Lee Sin, Renekton, GP and Darius when they're strong. All of these champs are more casters than AAers.
Overall I think that Irelia as a character was never a good fit for the type of champion you want her to be. She'll always be at odds with her character if she's based on autos.
It's better for Irelia to be at odds with her theme than at odds with her player base. The simple fact is that Irelia players enjoy her as an auto attack based bruiser, you can't just ignore that when suggesting rework ideas.
You're a Sona main so I'll put this in a way you can understand. It's kind of like if the community started saying Sona should be balanced around being a midlaner. From a mechanical standpoint it makes sense, Sona's current kit is closer to a strong fit for mid than support, if her Q had an AOE splash ala Karma so she could wave control she'd be a pretty good mid and they'd be reasons to pick her which are currently somewhat lacking.
It's also a complete bastardisation of what Sona should be. In my case I'm bastardising Sona from a thematical standpoint while being consistent in a mechanical standpoint (she still plays the exact same), you're bastardising Irelia from mechanical standpoint (she plays completely differently) whilst being fair from a thematical standpoint. Both of these are terrible for the players of the champ.
Zeta1 votesRiot's main issues with her they discussed about a year or two ago. Namely that she's themed around being a magical swordswoman with telekinetic spirit blades but she just runs up to people and stabs them. Her lore of having floating blades is totally superfluous. The only part of her kit that even deals with unorthodox swordsmanship in the least is her blade-toss ult. They were talking about stuff like having psychokinetic control and positioning of her swords being the crux of her character instead of an afterthought. Basically making her more of a mid-range zone control manipulation type deal in the style of an AD Syndra. Instead of "beefy lady what runs into fight and hits peoples with sword".
Linna Excel2 votesThey were talking about stuff like having psychokinetic control and positioning of her swords being the crux of her character instead of an afterthought.
I really hope riot doesn't do this. I mean I don't think shen's new blade ability is that popular, or it wasn't the last time I checked, and I don't think irelia players want to play shen or azir. We have shen and azir. Her being a control champ at this point would just feel wrong.
Plus at this point, riot's writers can and love to screw up derpize completely miss the point and spirit of retcon any champ they want to, when they want to. Since I value her gameplay more than I value 3-5 paragraphs that were written to the standard of a fighting game. Plus when you consider riot has a history of flushing lore down the crapper, lore isn't something I'd want to focus a redesign around.
Zeta1 votesShe's still going to be melee but have a lot of ranged stuff on her kit ala Yorick, Ekko, Zed, and Gangplank. I think they said they were thinking about keeping Bladesurge and her Transcendent Blades (but that it would probably not be remain an Ult and have an ammo system) and scrapping her other abilities and her passive in favor of ranged zone control spells. So they're probably going to be forcing her out of the jungle and squarely into either mid or top. They specifically noted her sustain + cc resistance as particularly bad ideas that were going to be removed. Of course, this was just what a few devs were spitballing over a year ago.
AMYS GRAVE1 votesYou know what would be cool on irelia? A spirit sword that follows her around that maybe creates a dodge field.
Brutusness2 votesAnd Swain too right? Please don't tell me he's going to go until 2018 without any new skin :(
Kyrrion1 votesHere's where we're up to with Irelia:
"Maybe we should do a full update on Irelia someday? Her theme's really cool, but underutilized, and her gameplay's a mixture of cool and problematic"
We don't have a schedule, mapped out set of problems to definitely address, list of iconic elements to maintain etc, let alone any firm thoughts on ability changes. Bare minimum we won't be working Irelia this year, it's also possible we conclude other champions are better fits for next year too (Eve? Urgot? Pantheon? etc).
Well, you already gave the "floating separate blade" mechanic to Shen. So good luck with that.
ExecutorDill1 votesHere's where we're up to with Irelia:
"Maybe we should do a full update on Irelia someday? Her theme's really cool, but underutilized, and her gameplay's a mixture of cool and problematic"
We don't have a schedule, mapped out set of problems to definitely address, list of iconic elements to maintain etc, let alone any firm thoughts on ability changes. Bare minimum we won't be working Irelia this year, it's also possible we conclude other champions are better fits for next year too (Eve? Urgot? Pantheon? etc).
Well you could tone down her Q and make it a skillshot (but I guess that wouldn't be unique) but currently yas does what her Q does but more emphasis on mobility and less on dmg. Her ult is unique but it looks soo anti-climatic. Maybe make it similar to Syndra's R or make it work of a charge system.
ExecutorDill1 votesHere's where we're up to with Irelia:
"Maybe we should do a full update on Irelia someday? Her theme's really cool, but underutilized, and her gameplay's a mixture of cool and problematic"
We don't have a schedule, mapped out set of problems to definitely address, list of iconic elements to maintain etc, let alone any firm thoughts on ability changes. Bare minimum we won't be working Irelia this year, it's also possible we conclude other champions are better fits for next year too (Eve? Urgot? Pantheon? etc).
Can Twisted Fate ever see a Combat ability update in his future? I really like Vlad's mini game with Q giving him that small window of opportunity for great dmg. Could TF receive something similar. If not I'd like to be told so by a rioter so I can put my expectations to rest.
Here's a TF ability update concept I made it's very subtle so I urge you look at it: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/HpOfEaMk-my-twisted-fate-gameplay-update
ExecutorDill1 votesHere's where we're up to with Irelia:
"Maybe we should do a full update on Irelia someday? Her theme's really cool, but underutilized, and her gameplay's a mixture of cool and problematic"
We don't have a schedule, mapped out set of problems to definitely address, list of iconic elements to maintain etc, let alone any firm thoughts on ability changes. Bare minimum we won't be working Irelia this year, it's also possible we conclude other champions are better fits for next year too (Eve? Urgot? Pantheon? etc).
Can 
expect a combat pattern update in his future? He has a really good theme it's just his combat pattern is bland, 1 dimensional and easily readable.
Here's a subtle update I made for him, I urge you look at it:
http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/HpOfEaMk-my-twisted-fate-gameplay-update
Chromatic Eagle1 votesWhat do you consider to be iconic on Irelia?
What exactly is wrong with Pantheon? Just wondering.
MXXXXXL2 votesWhy rework Irelia?
Zerolera1 votesCan you link me the rework topic/site that discusses it. I didn't see it.
Irelia Bot1 votesFrom what I have heard one thing they for sure want to keep in tact is Bladesurge. If anythign improve it a little.
It is for sure one thing in her kit that is not breaking the game and has clear good and bad aspects to it.
WitchQueen Annie1 votesAll her AD ratios will be nerfed.
Whenever she launches an attack, it will be telegraphed in the name of counterplay. Damage will be nominally increased here and there but the attacks will be near impossible to land against pros.
There will be fleeting windows of strength for the character (1 to 2 seconds) that will be impossible for the player to really use against pros. For the rest of the game, her attacks will deal sub-par damage.
Damage will further be cut down, instead, some delayed healing will be tacked on to a place where its not needed (and where its too late to do anything).
SonicÐeHedgedawg1 votesHonestly, my problem with Irelia is that her design and kit do not mesh..... At all
Beuhlakor1 votesLast year in december you said that "Aatrox was pretty high on our radar". What about him ? Any changes soon ? Any thoughts about him ?
warpenguin5551 votesmy best guess is that shes gets a new passive, w, and r, E gets some changes but will still get a stun in some way, and Q stays almost the same. Just not much feels like its worth salvaging on her really. Passive WR all feel old and could be made interesting.
