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Kai'sa nerfs when?

CLG Splitarshan··68 votes·20,432 views

The only way I imagine this champion's development is some high on drugs dev at Riot HQ thinking about how to make Vayne and Kog'Maw meta again so he decides to fuse both into one champion whose only weakness is lack of range.

Lets be serious, Kaisa is an autoattack based champion that blows up squishies with a Q, why can she build like an on hit adc and deal ability dmg like a Lucian or lethality Miss Fortune?

She not only destroys squishies but also mows down tanks in a couple seconds and the best part is you cant build to tank her since she deals hybrid damage, and not only that but she also deals % dmg on missing health that also scales with AP and guess what, she can build items like Zhonia which is the perfect defensive tool for an ADC while profiting from all the stats it gives, and not only that, but her on hit build is not limited to attack speed, its usually paired with items like rabadon or zhonia.

I would like to build Zhonia on my other adc's too but guess what, I cant since i would be wasting an item slot just for a stasis effect to save my ass.

Kaisa's itemization is too optimal and versatile, she can build too many items that other adcs cant while not wasting any of the potential of said item.

E+ Stacked Rageblade+ Nashors Tooth+ Greaves already gives her the attack speed cap and if it doesnt it should be pretty close, thats only 3 items which sinergize perfectly with her. she still has 3 items left to build whatever she wants whether its survivability, even more dmg, crits, more AP, whatever, everything works.

Lets look at other adcs, crit adcs usually need Stormrazor, Rapidfire Cannon, Greaves, Infinity Edge and Last Whisper to effectively take down a tank. Thats 5 items while Kaisa can perfectly do that job with 3 items. Even other on hit adcs like Varus or KogMaw cant even compare to her, Varus doesnt have any kind of mobility and needs to hit extra abilities to effectively make use of his % dmg, note that Kaisa only needs to auto, and KogMaw just doesnt stand up to the meta in general, he is even less mobile than Varus and much easier to focus.

All in all, Kaisa has the upper hand on all crit adcs itemwise since she does the same job with 2 items less, shes a late game adc thats not as bad at the early game as other similar adcs are, she is supposed to be an autoattack based adc but still has 2 hard ability nukes (Q and W), her ult gives her a massive shield that SCALES BOTH WITH AP AND AD. Lets be honest, new and reworked champions feel like a brand new $5000 worth gaming PC compared to a toaster laptop.

76 Comments

Jeanne fan club7 votes

her q auto/ auto q (I'm not really sure in what order she does that) in the early game is completely disgusting. Does way too much damage for a fire and forget combo

whizkid755 votes

{quoted}

her q auto/ auto q (I'm not really sure in what order she does that) in the early game is completely disgusting. Does way too much damage for a fire and forget combo

That's only true if a minion wave isn't around. And if that's the case, you deserve a full Q to the face

Z3Sleeper1 votes

Neither, it's q + auto. Q has no cast time so you can Q at any time while not interrupting basic attacks.

Somebody Love Me3 votes

Only isolated Q. But if there's a wave around or another target, it's not that much.

NoPaxt3 votes

You can nerf her by not feeding her and playing better...

CLG Splitarshan23 votes

You know that minions give money right? If you go even in stats and farm against a Kaisa with any other adc in the game you will end up outscaled, and as I stated before, her item efficiency is much higher, she does more than others with less items. Not feeding a champion is not an answer for unbalance.

But I guess in the end you can say that for every champion: How do I counter a champ? Dont feed it. Ok, there are 5 champions in each team and there is also a jungler that sometimes you cant avoid.

Your argument is pretty dumb and worthless tbh.

NoPaxt3 votes

[{quoted}](name=CLG Splitarshan,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=preqhAxU,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-09-11T13:14:54.353+0000)

You know that minions give money right? If you go even in stats and farm against a Kaisa with any other adc in the game you will end up outscaled, and as I stated before, her item efficiency is much higher, she does more than others with less items. Not feeding a champion is not an answer for unbalance.

But I guess in the end you can say that for every champion: How do I counter a champ? Dont feed it. Ok, there are 5 champions in each team and there is also a jungler that sometimes you cant avoid.

Your argument is pretty dumb and worthless tbh.

Twitch out scales her damage easily... so does Jinx

CLG Splitarshan20 votes

Kt Rolster had picked Jinx in the playoffs finals against Griffin's Kaisa, guess what happened. Jinx with 5 items was no match for Cho Gath and Urgot while Kaisa destroyed Sejuani, Alistar and Aatrox in the other team. Thats a professional Korean game with the 2 best Korean teams, its basically the summit of League of Legends pro play and it showcased the difference between Kaisa and other ADCs, especially since in the next game Kt Rolster picked KaiSa and stomped the game.

The champion is pick or ban and in her current state there is no outscaling her.

Ifneth4 votes

[{quoted}](name=CLG Splitarshan,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=preqhAxU,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2018-09-11T13:46:08.795+0000)

Kt Rolster had picked Jinx in the playoffs finals against Griffin's Kaisa, guess what happened. Jinx with 5 items was no match for Cho Gath and Urgot while Kaisa destroyed Sejuani, Alistar and Aatrox in the other team. Thats a professional Korean game with the 2 best Korean teams, its basically the summit of League of Legends pro play and it showcased the difference between Kaisa and other ADCs, especially since in the next game Kt Rolster picked KaiSa and stomped the game.

The champion is pick or ban and in her current state there is no outscaling her.

Kai’Sa was not the reason KT was stat-checked during teamfights. Alistar and Sejuani are low-economy tanks. Cho’Gath and Urgot are high-economy tanks, one hyperscaling, and both deal massive true damage. Feast into Fear Beyond Death could kill either one of the opposing frontliners from over 30% HP.

They put their tanks into the Jungle and Support and picked an aggressive top laner, Aatrox, because they wanted to win lane and then snowball the midgame. After Aatrox was 3-manned and then solo-killed by Cho’Gath top lane, he lost momentum and could no longer split the map. Meanwhile, Griffin was pouring lane farm into tank items and levels for Cho’Gath and Urgot.

Jinx was struggling against their frontline even with four items because it was just too tanky for her to kill alone before theirs snacked on hers. Meanwhile, Kai’Sa had two squishy carries to pick and an underfed Aatrox to largely ignore. It was an on-hit carry dream.

Swap Kai’Sa and Jinx, and KT still loses.

Somebody Love Me3 votes

You forgot to mention that Viper played like a god that fight and turned a fight for a triple kill when Deft aggressively flashed into 3 as Jinx.

He went AP Kaisa which is super expensive but snowballed. And I already told you what happens when AP Kaisa snowballs.

And it wasn't a 5 item jinx when that fight happened. It was actually pretty early in the game.

Daddy Ants17 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stark of Wrath,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=preqhAxU,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2018-09-11T13:38:22.499+0000)

Twitch out scales her damage easily... so does Jinx

Jinx doesn't outscale Kai'Sa.

NoPaxt4 votes

{quoted}

Jinx doesn't outscale Kai'Sa.

she does though item 3085 item 3095 item 3072 item 3031 item 3094 item 3006

CLG Splitarshan6 votes

Yeah, until Kaisa blows her up with this item 3095 item 3124 item 3006 item 3115 item 3089 item 3157

Somebody Love Me2 votes

Again, item costs

UnboundHades13 votes

item 3095 +item 3124 +item 3006 +item 3115 +item 3089 +item 3157 =16700 item 3085 +item 3095 +item 3072 +item 3031 +item 3094 +item 3006 =16400

what does item costs even have to do with anything

Somebody Love Me1 votes

The first three items, when it matters most for an ADC nowadays

Rageblade, Nashors, Dcap/hourglass/banshees

Vs

Stormrazor, Hurricane, IE

The AP build powerspikes later, after Nashors, then again after the third item of choice, while the AD build spikes immediately after Stormrazor, then again after the zeal item of choice, then again after IE. However, it's not as good at shredding tanks later, when it honestly should be, but that's mostly because the AP build is broken once complete, so they need to trim AP Kai down (which they're doing).

In my honest opinion, AP Kaisa should be for raw burst while AD should be for DPS, but right now, both builds burst (AD much sooner), and both kinda DPS (AP much harder).

Dark Royalty8 votes

You can say that for every champ in the game

NoPaxt1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dark Royalty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=preqhAxU,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2018-09-11T13:59:35.976+0000)

You can say that for every champ in the game

Now you have learned!

Dark Royalty1 votes

Too bad i play toplane and cant do anything about her getting fed. Especially cuz shes a mobile hyper carry who has mixed damage so you almost insta lose if she gets fed and plays good.

NoPaxt1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dark Royalty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=preqhAxU,comment-id=0000000200010000,timestamp=2018-09-11T19:28:45.815+0000)

Too bad i play toplane and cant do anything about her getting fed. Especially cuz shes a mobile hyper carry who has mixed damage so you almost insta lose if she gets fed and plays good.

item 3194 item 3143

Dark Royalty1 votes

Ok? When i get those items on a bruiser the game is already over or its so far late into the game that kaisa just shreds through it

NoPaxt1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dark Royalty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=preqhAxU,comment-id=000000020001000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-12T01:34:00.437+0000)

Ok? When i get those items on a bruiser the game is already over or its so far late into the game that kaisa just shreds through it

you don't have to play a bruiser...

Dark Royalty1 votes

Ok? I cant play a whole class of champs cuz of this broken vayne copy?

NoPaxt1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dark Royalty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=preqhAxU,comment-id=00000002000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-13T11:19:05.555+0000)

Ok? I cant play a whole class of champs cuz of this broken vayne copy? 4 simple options 1- you can play a bruiser, but itemize correctly 2- you can play another class and not be as vulnerable 3- you can ban her and play your bruiser 4- continue to whine (apparently you chose this one)

Dark Royalty1 votes

Wdym itemize correctly thats how you itemize on most bruisers the tank items come later The problem i have with her is that she has too much mixed damage and smashes my team while being able to go invisible and give herself a shield. Whenever i play kaisa its like playing vayne on easy mode

NoPaxt1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dark Royalty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=preqhAxU,comment-id=0000000200010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-13T19:27:04.784+0000)

Wdym itemize correctly thats how you itemize on most bruisers the tank items come later The problem i have with her is that she has too much mixed damage and smashes my team while being able to go invisible and give herself a shield. Whenever i play kaisa its like playing vayne on easy mode

It's not a cookie cutter game, you build for the game you're in, you don't have to rush cleaver if you need another item first. If I'm bot lane and there's a Brand/lux or something similar for sup that has strong poke, I rush Hexdrinker ahead or storm razor or BotRk.It makes sense even though it's not a key item for me...

Dark Royalty1 votes

OK? You wouldnt go those itsms first on any bruiser or u would be dealing negative damage thats like an adc building randuins cuz tryndamere gets fed

LTK KoRo3 votes

Kai'sa is strong at every point of the game and her upgraded e+ult are making her way much too safe. She is too slippery and she doesn't trade anything for it.

saltran5 votes

Argh she is really strong and I dont want to defend her but she does have a bad lane fase, you cant deny that.

mack91123 votes

Meh i don't think she is too much of a problem just another scaling champ like vayne you gotta shut her down early

CLG Splitarshan2 votes

Thats the problem, Vayne is very weak in lane, Kai'sa isnt, Vayne is very squishy and has one of the lowest armor ratios in the game, Kaisa has a huge shield on her ult, Vayne takes much longer to deal her dmg, Kaisa has a very strong nuke on her Q and good dmg on W from a distance, not to forget that her passive procs are stronger than Vayne's.

All in all Kaisa has very few weaknesses in expense for what she brings to the table.

Somebody Love Me5 votes

Kaisa is weak early and is super dependent on support to get her out of lane.

If she goes AP, which is ungodly expensive, she won't be a factor until really really late which gives your team time to snowball. However if an AP Kaisa snowballs it's GG.

AD Kaisa is cheaper but doesn't snowball as hard. She has lifesteal and Hurricane but has to forego Zhonyas unless really needed.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

I like how your duo plays Kai'sa whenever she's not banned.

Feed or Famine1 votes

My go to Kai Sa counter is Trist with press the attack. She out duels early and scales just about as well into late. Then again, I also just think trist is a better pick than Kai into most match ups, as she has safer laneing and a slightly less expensive power spike

Summonah123692 votes

Irelia/Draven nerfs when?

CLG Splitarshan4 votes

I agree with Irelia but Draven is really coinflip, he is a nightmare when snowballing but utterly useless when behind.

Somebody Love Me2 votes

Nowadays when behind Draven isn't as useless as he used to be. His build isn't as expensive anymore and with Conqueror he still nukes tanks because Conqueror+IE true damage+RFC+BT

He scales like any other ADC would, but maybe not as hard. Only now, your team might have the tools to stop him.

Edit: Also forgot to mention Stormrazor and how beautiful of an item that is (remove it from the game)

ankoanko192 votes

If they nerf Irelia they better fucking hit her utility and not her dmg like they did last time and just fuck her over.

SpecterVonBaren2 votes

If there's a problem with her its that she's just Vayne 2.0 but less mechanically interesting and more stat checky.

ankoanko192 votes

She has now 15% at all ranks missing health dmg on her passive instead of 15-20%. So lategame nerf I guess.

bucket steak2 votes

You can build item 3026 on other ADC's.

CLG Splitarshan3 votes

guardian angel gives 40 armor 45 AD and a revive every 300 sec.

Zhonya's gives 75 AP 45 armor 10% cdr and invulnerability every 120 sec.

The difference in stats and utility is pretty big. You can have Zhonya in every important fight while Guardian Angels cd is more than double, also Kaisa benefits from every single stat Zhonya's gives.

Biggest MO3 Fan2 votes

yeah kaisa is legit busted , but half this community ends up saying 'DonT FeEd HeR'.... meanwhile not even a late game master yi can 1v1 her because she just one shots. LITERALLY one shots. And if you do survive long enough to fight her, she has a massive shield and can camouflage. Rito plz. Stop making overloaded champs. The sad thing is , shes broken rn and will stay broken and like all other champions that have been like this , shes going to get overnerfed and become useless..... Because they dont know how to keep a champion just good. Feelsbadman. but at least do something now. Shes beyond broken.

Hexs Fortune2 votes

They should bring her range back to 500. Kai'sa is too good at everything

Daddy Ants1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hexs Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=preqhAxU,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2018-09-13T08:36:11.120+0000)

They should bring her range back to 500. Kai'sa is too good at everything

Agreed.

Gamer Gallade1 votes

I'm gonna make a bold statement. They need to nerf item 3115 to indirectly nerf her AP build. It is super cheap and gives AP 80 with 50%Attack speed, 20% CDR and magic damage that scales with AP that fuels her upgraded W&E even faster.

Honestly that is the reason why that build is a problem. Doesn't help that Rage blade is also a part of the problem but that item is always been broken or useless in the past.

Still, Nerf Nashers tooth.

wildfox991 votes

so any onther champion that builds item 3115 is fked up because kai'sa abuse this item?

Daddy Ants1 votes

{quoted}

so any onther champion that builds item 3115 is fked up because kai'sa abuse this item?

She got item 3124 nerfed already.

No doubt Nashor's will get nerfed because of her too..

Riot Games special.

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