Gets one kill and one assist. Then proceeds to one shot other players that are actually more ahead than he XD. Balanced if he can kill you in 0.9 secs when he barely has one kill and no full built item, when me and adc had a full built item each.
Then after 2 kills, it jumps to .11 secs XD to kill u? that is broken.
Biffolo6 votesOr you ward key chokepoints, you see him ult then back off. Then he does nothing all game. Problem solved.
A Miss Fortune4 votesWould be helpful if Riot didn't basically delete wards and vision from the game. I feel like Rengar actually received indirect buffs because of the massive amounts of vision nerfs this season.
-Totem still sucks -Blue trinket is one-shottable, has reduced vision radius, and visible at all times -Pink Totems removed -Red trinket sucks against stealth champs (I won't lie though, it looks really cool now to before) -Green wards removed so only Supports can get decent ward coverage -Sightstone was actually nerfed (unbelievable)
The only buffs to vision was Junglers can get a mini-Sightstone now and pinks cost 25g less. It still doesn't matter though, if you're not the support you'll have up to 3 wards on the map at all times at the most if you don't use the blue trinket, which still has a lot of weaknesses to vision.
Biffolo5 votesYou still have sightstone, a couple yellow trinkets pre-9, a potential of 5 pink wards, and a potential 2 wards from your jungler if they go with the green enchant, potentially more if they are a sightstone jungler. That's more than plenty if you use them correctly.
GenghisEmo1 votesi have noted that Rengar can jump at you from outside of the Pink's reveal range, though not always the case (as it might be a bug), i have noticed this. While Eve or Talon have no hardcore jump/gap closer like Rengar, so they are more easily countered by it.
Biffolo1 votesThe pinks aren't to counter his stealth. They are to keep tabs on him before he's in range to jump on him. Just treat him like an eve and properly track his pathing and you'll be fine.
GenghisEmo1 votesProblem is, eve dont jump u from outside the pink ward range (this might be a bug, but have seen it happen where u get literally next to pink).
But i do use pinks tp try and predict where he might be, bit usially still not mucj of counterplay considering how mobile he is, gap closer, sustain, tower dive wipe out of 0.12 secs with 2 kills and he getting out alive (ally, enemy, or you)
Biffolo1 votesBut eve can be invis pre 6, and doesn't need an ultimate to do it. Rengar is easier to counter than evelynn, and as such he's allowed to be better. If he's ahead he can do that stuff, and at that point he deserves to be able to. If he's behind he can't do that stuff, which is the way it should be. Don't fight him on even terms, dictate the pressure, dictate the control with your team and watch as he crumples. He gets fed a lot in silver, I get that, but that's not a problem with the champions, that's a problem with the players feeding him.
GenghisEmo1 votesI have an easier time against eve. She can be spotted easier with pinks, Rengar can jump you outside pink's range (might be bug, but seen it, eve cannot).
Also eve dont kill in .11 secs on 2 kills. Much less 0.01.
Biffolo1 votesYou don't. You aren't reading. You don't use the pinks reflexively. You don't keep them right near you, you keep them near chokepoints he will be ulting through, so you see him. He can't jump on you from his blue buff or river or his tri bush. That's where I'm saying you need normal wards, and you keep pinks in a few other forward places I'll be more than glad to share if you want, so you see him ulting before he's in range.
GenghisEmo1 votesyou dont keep them near you i know, but you keep them at a decent distance from you. But as the patches n PreSeason6 are horribly unstable (pink sometimes does not reveal mushrooms, wards, stealthed champs you plant in the same bush as them). And as such, you can slip through a pink ward undetected even when they are supposed to be within the range of the pink ward. And you wont even get a warning for being spotted when you have the raptor buff XD)
Biffolo1 votesEven assuming this is true, which if you give me proof I'll believe, but I personally haven't seen in happen, that doesn't excuse lack of sightstone wards at his camps to read his pathing.
GenghisEmo1 voteswell, you can notice all the time. You really havent noticed these little bugs? You can even get stuck on walls, done so with Poopy and Alistar (quite infuriating), all players in a server dc at same time (seen it like 3 times since PreS6 started, and i know, i was the first to reconnect and saw everyone slowly reconnect), everyone dcs one by one (seen it since PreS5, but seems to have back PreS6), gaming rigs dont mean shit since NA Servers are too stuttery, minions stop in middle of lane for no reason, some minions dont die when they are supposed to die, they just stay in lane immortal, Lux's passive does not proc like 1 out of 10 times, Ez's abilities leave little particle effects all over the place long after he shoots and ability.
The skillshots are busted right now every other server since they miss yet hit (and noted this with other players, where we will miss and still get a kill, pretty funny). You can slightly miss, and still land the skillshot somehow, and it is like an obvious miss, not just lightly hitting the little corner or a hitbox, but an actual miss (funny when you get fed like this, and it throws you off when you play on LAN servers and the issue is no longer as bad even when your ping is twice as high in LAN). And there are quite a few other little bugs and technical issues. The game really needs maintenance, since when new summoner rift went into effect things were not as bad considering S5 had some very, very huge changes (more so than PreS6).
And u can cast wards outside of cast range, if you move in a weir way you then cast the stealth wards like halfway into the bush when you are actually trying to ward through the walls in mid lane. This one seems to only work for stealths, havent been able to do it with anything else.
If you havent seen these things, you must be among the luckier players, while i am among the unluckiest.
Biffolo1 votesHalf the bugs you listed are server farts, which happen in literally every online game ever, sooooo.
GenghisEmo1 votesi hope the day comes where we get the Pink Totem trinket upgrade back XD.
Dominick Destine5 votesI tend to agree. He's absurdly overpowered... but its a combination of easy gap closers, high damage and surprisingly high defensive stats.
Evelynn can burst comparably to Rengar, but Evelynn can get caught way more easily and sacrifices all tankiness in exchange for damage to pull it off... whereas Rengar can be modestly tanky and burst even harder than Evelynn. He needs nerfs, some thing has to give.
Evelynn has to outposition the enemy. Rengar not so much, or at all.
A Miss Fortune3 votesNo idea what game you've been playing, but in League of Legends Evelynn is a sustained damage assassin who can't come nowhere near to the flat 0.01 second kills Rengar makes every day. That and I have no idea how in the world you think Evelynn is much easier to catch out? Rengar doesn't have permastealth?
Dominick Destine2 votes[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pnbNnLpv,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-01-04T03:19:52.852+0000)
No idea what game you've been playing, but in League of Legends Evelynn is a sustained damage assassin
Evelynn has good sustained but she has no stun or slow outside of her ult, so she falls back heavily on burst damage which is her forte. Evelynn can burst very hard but is second to Rengar in this case. You are building her wrong if you don't have good burst damage on Evelynn.
Artificial Human4 votesHe does not need a nerf, he is a broken champion so he needs a proper rework. Rengar is only good at oneshotting people with his ultimate so if he gets nerfed he will be useless, we dont want champions to become useless, we want to help them get out of their broken state.
GenghisEmo1 votesUseless, i dont think so. Especially not if they go live with the new Assassin item. The new item will make Rengar 0.00001 as he is now, or at least in theory.
Sejuani gets dumpstered, and still playable and quite viable (not always obviously, the least tankiest tank out there it seems at times), Naut jg also dumpstered but still viable and can be played relatively well (though the higher your skill, the worse he becomes it seems), Rek Sai got several, several nerfs and ppl complained, but still quite a strong jungler (no longer do you go in 1v5, get out alive, and with a triple kill at that, but still pretty damn healthy).
The issue is, he offers too much power and oneshot potential for not enough of a high skill cap, so nerfs are needed, THOUGH a rework would be much more welcome since it could go for the root of the issue (and i would actually enjoy if he required a higher skill cap to one shot at 0.01 secs).
Artificial Human1 votesHow is it useless then? Did you even read what i wrote? I said Rengar needs a rework, nerfing him just makes him useless in the only thing he is good at and unejoyable to play, this is why he needs a proper rework where the "Anti-fun" factor gets removed.
GenghisEmo1 votesUseless, i dont think so is what o said.
I agree he needs a rework,but a nerf fpr the short term until he gets reworked
IcyPepper3 votesI think he needs changes, not just nerfs.
Although that doesn't mean he shouldn't be nerfed. If he needs nerfing, unleash thy nerf hammer, but that playstyle is going to be unhealthy no matter how weak or strong it is.
GenghisEmo1 votesif he gets a nerf, it wont be awful. He will need to be smarter. I dont like it when ppl complain about nerfs, shit Sej was dumpstered, and i still play pretty well with her. If you main the champ, you'll be fine. Happened to Naut jg too.
IcyPepper1 votesI mean, when you main a champ enough no nerf will destroy you, but each champion should be reasonably powerful depending on the meta they are in (like you wouldn't want to buff assassins in a tank meta, you would want to remove the tank meta first).
I'm just... I just don't want Rengar to get Sejuani'd or something. No champion deserves that.
GenghisEmo1 votesNo one deserves to get Sej'd, but considering the poor balance and design options Riot does, nerf it now, rework later seems to be what we might have to do.
Rework ultimately is the goal, but it wont happen fast, jence nerf a bit for now, little nerfs, nothing huge. Maybe to deal with ot a bit until the rework.
Buldozer bre1 votesYe, he is rly not good for the game right now. Only rengar mains protect him, but when u play adc and get oneshoted then it is not that fun any more. He oneshots a 5X more fed adc who has full item build..... Hes kit needs reworks this season. Noone likes to play vs Rengar cuz u get 0 counterplay on that champ.
MrDrBudd2 votesBoards monthly cry baby train.
GenghisEmo1 votesim not being a cry baby, im stating fact. With one kill kills in almost a second, 2 kills, in 1/10th of a sec. That's a bit too much XD. Hilariously stupid to have this actually be a thing. Not even Zed, a more skill based champ can do that, and you would think that a skill based champ would be rewarded with a bit more power (which they should, im not worried about Zed being strong, however, Rengar with not much mechanical skill required is a bit too much).
MrDrBudd1 votesim not being a cry baby, im stating fact. With one kill kills in almost a second, 2 kills, in 1/10th of a sec. That's a bit too much XD. Hilariously stupid to have this actually be a thing. Not even Zed, a more skill based champ can do that, and you would think that a skill based champ would be rewarded with a bit more power (which they should, im not worried about Zed being strong, however, Rengar with not much mechanical skill required is a bit too much).
nah there is plenty you can do. Try learning instead of trying to cry until you get your way.
GenghisEmo1 voteswell, i can learn if Rengar can stop killing at .11 secs with only two kills XD. (Yes, it is possible to kill you with only two kills in .11 secs, with two kills).
When i play tanky supps, i can more easily deal with the preventing of a double kill, but chances are the first carry is dead immidiately. Coplaining is healthy for the game, it will help make Rengar a rewarding champion, not just a half-assed poorly balanced champ that Riot just crapped out one day. A rework, which will be the ultimate goal, is needed for Rengar, which may change things more to make him a more appealing champion overall. He rewards you too much for too little, which makes you feel underwhelmed or let down in the overall quality of the champ. Other champs that give me a similar feel when i use them are Fizz, Talon, Katarina, Taric, Yorick, Singed, and Shaco.
If say, Rendar took more mechanical skill to play, say like Zed or LeBlanc, then i would be perfectly fine with that since it can justify freebee power.
I like to try out and play as many champs as i can, and if i feel a champ is rewarding enough for the skill supposed skill cap (sometimes Riot claims a champ takes a lot of skill when they clearly don't, looking at you Katarina), then i love to play those champs more. This tend to happen with Skill shot based champs, not the point and click ones, which seem to be so "unfun" to play.
Rengar needs a rework, not only for his unjustified power, but also to make him a more fun to learn champ (right now, you ult, jump em, maybe, if you need to finish off a tank, use all abilities). Feels kind of like using Talon or Fizz, funny at times to one shot an enemy for doing so little (you can see videos of some funny newb ups that are rewarded as these champs), but laughs aside, we need to actually make his kit more balanced.
MrDrBudd1 voteswell, i can learn if Rengar can stop killing at .11 secs with only two kills XD. (Yes, it is possible to kill you with only two kills in .11 secs, with two kills).
When i play tanky supps, i can more easily deal with the preventing of a double kill, but chances are the first carry is dead immidiately. Coplaining is healthy for the game, it will help make Rengar a rewarding champion, not just a half-assed poorly balanced champ that Riot just crapped out one day. A rework, which will be the ultimate goal, is needed for Rengar, which may change things more to make him a more appealing champion overall. He rewards you too much for too little, which makes you feel underwhelmed or let down in the overall quality of the champ. Other champs that give me a similar feel when i use them are Fizz, Talon, Katarina, Taric, Yorick, Singed, and Shaco.
If say, Rendar took more mechanical skill to play, say like Zed or LeBlanc, then i would be perfectly fine with that since it can justify freebee power.
I like to try out and play as many champs as i can, and if i feel a champ is rewarding enough for the skill supposed skill cap (sometimes Riot claims a champ takes a lot of skill when they clearly don't, looking at you Katarina), then i love to play those champs more. This tend to happen with Skill shot based champs, not the point and click ones, which seem to be so "unfun" to play.
Rengar needs a rework, not only for his unjustified power, but also to make him a more fun to learn champ (right now, you ult, jump em, maybe, if you need to finish off a tank, use all abilities). Feels kind of like using Talon or Fizz, funny at times to one shot an enemy for doing so little (you can see videos of some funny newb ups that are rewarded as these champs), but laughs aside, we need to actually make his kit more balanced.
he doesn't kill you in that amount of time with only 2 kills. are you the one who gave him the 2 kills therefore you have no farm? early game you actually get a chance to see the "!" because of smaller leap range and less movespeed. his leap doesnt take .11 seconds. the only time he just insta gibs you is when hes extremely fed just like others assassins do or its late game with full items. ward his camps know where hes at its not that difficult. and youre comparing him to zed which has a lot of his own problems as it is. mechanical diffuculty does not determine how strong a champ is allowed to be.
GenghisEmo1 votesI shit u not. I even cc'd him, had 3 times his cs, had 2 more kills than him, but Rengar is so busted than even when hard cc'd he kills u.
And this is not uncommon when i have a stable ping of 15 and 100fps. Shit, ive done similar things as Rengar.
That or Riot needs to rework the new servers (noted they r brutally ubstable).
Rengar still needs nerfs for now, but on his passive if anything, it seems too out of wack. But rework is the ultimate goal. He is too inconsistant (weak af, or too OP), so much so he even busts the game.
MrDrBudd1 votesI shit u not. I even cc'd him, had 3 times his cs, had 2 more kills than him, but Rengar is so busted than even when hard cc'd he kills u.
And this is not uncommon when i have a stable ping of 15 and 100fps. Shit, ive done similar things as Rengar.
That or Riot needs to rework the new servers (noted they r brutally ubstable).
Rengar still needs nerfs for now, but on his passive if anything, it seems too out of wack. But rework is the ultimate goal. He is too inconsistant (weak af, or too OP), so much so he even busts the game.
build a damn defensive item ffs. oh whats that then you will be useless and do little damage? yeah but then the rengar dies when he jumps on you and you still live making it a 4v5 and you still do some damage. still dying? then the game was already out of your control.
Axests2 votesHow to counter Rengar, when he jumps on you, dash away, or have a teammate hard cc him, then proceed to watch him die. The reason Rengar dumpsters people is because of a few reasons
GenghisEmo1 votesHe stills you when you hard cc him XD. Seen it so much, even done it. Not always, bit it is 50/50.
Bind him, freeze him, charm him, silence him, polymorph him, displace him, he can still kill you. He even kills you if you get saved by Tahm Kench.
I fond more consistent results with Kat, Zed, and Talon (and they blink to you). Ez, Nid are others with inconsistencies.
He is still weak as fuck, but literally gets freebies half the time even when played wrong or when he is hard cc'd.
Even with great ping, hardware, and fps. He can kill you with getting hard cc'd.
I have even used my nongaming laptop to test it out, and you can stutter or lag away with a kill. Not as easy to do with Zed, LB, or other Assassins (save for Talon or Kat, they are more consistant with cc, of cc'd they stay cc'd, but Kat and Talon get freebie kills with lag funniest thing ever).
Ironclad Dragon1 votesFunny, I didn't obliterate everybody when I screwed around as him.
Obscuration1 votesthey just need to make him a lot squishier and id say he would be balanced
GenghisEmo1 votesi'd say make him actually use more than one aa to deal 50% dmg, maybe make it deal 25% hp max, this way he uses more that one aa and one Q when he gets his 2nd kill. Squishier wont help much i think since it will make his early game bad and can sejuani him. Or at least in theory.
5050BS1 votesno the problem is the snowbally crap we have and him being able to kill in less then half a second.
There is no counter play and warding is not play.
GenghisEmo1 voteshe needs a rework for sure, but for now i can do with a small nerf until he is reworked.
ABlueQuaker1 votesWard as per usual, place pinks in your general vicinity, Support and JG at the very least should have the Oracle's Sweeping Lens.
If you're not a lazy PoS who prioritizes AP over actually being a support you shouldn't have any problems keeping Rengar in check.
I really do wish that Riot didn't get rid of the Greater Vision Totem, though. You could basically go 2 Sweepers, 2 Vision Totems and a Farsight Orb.
GenghisEmo1 voteswell, i do ward. But seeing how the wards dont last as long, there can be periods where you just cannot recall due to experiencing pressure, and to defend a tower/turret, must stay and defend. When this happens, Rengar can tower dive your adc, kill em faster than your shield's cast time. An this is with only two kills, and maybe, just maybe, a full built jg item.
ABlueQuaker1 votesRengar excels where there's chaos. IF you have a dysfunctional team, or you feel that solo farming bot is a more valuable use of your time than working with your team to avoid leaving players vulnerable, then you deserve to get 1-shot by an assassin - regardless of who it is.
GenghisEmo1 votesoh i know, but even with a good duo he seems to be rewarded for literally anything. barely hits lv6 and that is all he needs. You can play mechanically better than a Regnar, and they will still one shot you (seen it, and it is funny they ult, jump you, miss bola, use the sustain late and somehow still get a kill XD, even done it myself, quite funny).
Yet you defend ur adc well, shields up, cc lands, adc dies. So what i try hard to do, is try to stop the rampage. Only, the newbiest of Rengars are easily trumped right away after they ult, so a good-ish Rengar (and apparently you could miss an ability or two and get away with a kill), you need to prevent him from killing a second victim to allow team to have a chance at a team fight.
So if a good ish Rengar pounces and goes for a ADC, make sure APC makes it, or make sure Roka isnt next, for example. Or if he goes after APC, make sure ADC lives by cc chaining Rengar or bursting him fast enough before he can get out alive. So there is a way to help get him in check, but overall his kit is still not that great and he is not the most rewarding or fulfilling champ out there.
Khada Jhin GD1 votesGets one kill and one assist. Then proceeds to one shot other players that are actually more ahead than he XD. Balanced if he can kill you in 0.9 secs when he barely has one kill and no full built item, when me and adc had a full built item each.
Then after 2 kills, it jumps to .11 secs XD to kill u? that is broken.
I agree with you. His kit in overall needs a rework its not healthy. Hes like skarner either broken or borderline useless if you fuck up once. Last time they nerferd him they had to rework him to fix him :/
GenghisEmo1 votesyes, he can be the world's heaviest burden, especially when you are bad at Rengar (but ven when im bad, i find my self being rewarded for messing up, while if i mess up with LB or Zed i am severly punished).
Not as rewarding as say Fizz or Talon (mess up, and get away free, while with Rengar you mess up hard, ur pretty much dead, and once you are behind, you stay behind).
Blumpkin Nation1 votesThe main thing Rengar needs fixed ( and I can't believe it hasn't been yet) is his passive. I SEE YOU IN THE BUSH RENGAR. I FRICKIN' WARDED IT. I SEE YOU. YOU ARE SEEN PREDATOR. YOU CAN'T LEAP AT ME IF I SEE YOU.
I mean seriously. If you have sight of him, he shouldn't be able to leap on you. That includes his ult.
Aezanthya1 votesThe problem with stealth champs and especially rengar is that people tend to play like they usually do : aka overextend.
AmonTheFallen1 votesProblem is right now. Im in the middle of the team. He jumps from ult and in that jump he killed me and like a graves range far away mid laner. Jungler CCd him and supp jungle top bursted him but he simply healed all back up with W. Than Top jungle and supp didnt have the damage to kill him. He is retarded. He jumped 1v5 but simply outdamaged the whole team and we werent behind one bit. My last game Rengar even carried their whole team because he whiped everyone. He needs to get nerfed. I have no problem with Akali, Talon, Eve etc. ONLY RENGAR. Accept hes overpowered.
Buldozer bre1 votesI main ADC's, and a random rengar with 2 kills kills me altho i have full item build... How is that cool? I get oneshoted without the chance of counterplay? I even stay close with my team and he kills me, how gay is that? Riot needs to fix its damn shit, that champ is just a bad kit design.. Things arent supposet to be played like this, its a game and everyone deserves the right to outplay one another. Not to get oneshoted in 0.33sec. Khmhm Riot u are KHmhmhm gay khhmhmm. I wont spend money on ur stupid skins... count on that