...But Fizz's total invulnerability massive AoE damage dealing gap closer on a shorter cooldown that can also actually be used as an escape apparently does? Riot nerf this piece of shit's W or give Talon back his silence.
Rustling Bush13 votestalon silence pretty much invalidated any mage played mid, it was massively broken and even now going as mage champion against a talon who knows what hes doing will make me cry. his burst is still there, just that now we can do something. this is the same reason leblanc/kassacringe had her/his point and click silence removed to. point and click silences are the epitome of cancerous play.
also, people in higher elo consider fizz is a pubstomper like yi, meaning you just have to learn how to work around fizz rather then saying hes to strong
Jamatrix66611 votesYou seem to forget (or not comprehend) that Talon is, unlike LeBlanc and Kassadin, an all-in champion who has no way of getting out of fight except an ult that comes every 55 seconds at rank 3. An ult needed to do damage. Not an ult for escaping.
That being said, Talon's 1 second of silence was his only window of safety, while Kassadin has a flash every few seconds and LeBlanc has multiple juke possibilities with her double/triple movement ability, as well as a free clone and invisibility. In other words, if Kassadin or LeBlanc screw up, they can escape after a few seconds (or instantly) while Talon has to deal with the consequences.
I agree that a point and click silence can be overpowered in an assassin's kit, however, the complete removal of Talon's silence wasn't the right thing to do (thus, I agree with the original poster). If only Riot implemented a conditional silence in his kit (just like Darius' double damage ult is conditional since he needs to do certain things in order for his ult to do double damage), Talon would have kept his silence AND his opponents would have a way to counter it.
Narasimha2 votesTo be exact, the issue was never a 'point-and-click' silence, the issue was the silence tied to high burst and high mobility. Talon, Kass, and Leblanc all had the ability to get in, do their stuff, and essentially get out. The silence meant you couldn't stop them in 1v1 situations, their mobility meant they almost always had a 'get out of jail free' card, and...well, burst is burst. The distinction with Talon wasn't exactly his silence, but his silence + his invisibility. Its pretty much the ultimate "Haha you can't catch me" trick. Even if your burst fails, you can still scamper off because they have no idea where you are.
ZeroAnarchy1 votes
RevyUp4 votestalon silence pretty much invalidated any mage played mid, it was massively broken and even now going as mage champion against a talon who knows what hes doing will make me cry. his burst is still there, just that now we can do something. this is the same reason **leblanc/kassacringe **had her/his point and click silence removed to. point and click silences are the epitome of cancerous play.
also, people in higher elo consider fizz is a pubstomper like yi, meaning you just have to learn how to work around fizz rather then saying hes to strong
Yeah but they were insanely hard to catch with all the mobility they have. Talon has to either all in you or save his ult for an escape.
Marthian7 votesFizz's W is his auto enhance.
Fizz needs reworked or at least lose a lot of utility. He has way too much of it for how mobile and bursty he is.
Talon is never getting his silence back.
Rew7111 votesHis W can also escape Veigar's W. Riot, what is wrong with you?
Talon's silence wasn't as bad as this.
Kassadin's silence wasn't as bad as this.
The most spammed ability I've ever seen is the W on Fizz. Can't he be targetable? Can it not do damage? Can it not be his escape from everything?
Marthian5 votesDid you not read the first part?** Fizz's W is his auto attack enhance Seastone Trident. His E "Playful/Trickster"** is what you are talking about, and that does escape Veigar's E/W/R/Q.
Talon's, Kassadin's, and Leblanc's silences guaranteed all of them kills. They were that bad.
Llanite1 votesHe still get stunned if he Q/E through Veigar's W. Liar or just noob?
Rew7111 votesI'm not lying about him getting out of the Veigar W by using the move to become untarget-able for a few seconds. I'm not sure how I'm a noob though, this isn't me playing as Fizz but against Fizz. I'm not sure how Fizz works but he has always gotten out of my Veigar W...
Ale non è male1 votesWait, Veigar stun is the E, not the W And Veigar E is weird because it stun enemies on their movement, if you stand still or you are capable to move out of the perimeter without being targetable(for example the small window of untargetability of YI Alpha Strike or Zed ulti also works) you are not stunned Fizz can use Playful/Trickster to go out of Veigar E as long as his Trickster can land out of Veigar E
KidSpectre6 votesThe thing about going against Talon was that, if you were a mage, it sucked to be you. He just kinda blinked to you, vomited damage all over your face, and walked/ulted away by the time you recovered. Kassadin had much the same issue.
Raptamei2 votesThe thing about going against Talon was that, if you were a mage, it sucked to be you. He just kinda blinked to you, vomited damage all over your face, and walked/ulted away by the time you recovered. Kassadin had much the same issue.
Why did you pick a mage against him?
You got outpicked son, he won champ select, your fault, don't cry.
Narasimha5 votesIts almost like people can pick after you or something. Strange....
Also hey Rapt, hows it hanging?
Teridax686 votesWhile I agree that 
doesn't really allow for a lot of interactivity with his targets, especially when he's ahead, I think there's a difference here between his untargetability and 
's silence: Fizz's untargetability makes him slippery, but doesn't limit your options in itself, since you can still move/dash/
around, and use abilities after he lands. Talon's silence, on the other hand, works by denying you the option to retaliate by preventing you from using spells. It's sort of the same difference between old 
's perma-slow and his current perma-movespeed on his Q: he can still stick to you just as well, but his sticking power is self-focused and not target-focused, so he gets to be powerful without denying you, his victim, any escape options (until he stuns or ults you, anyway).
Durzaka6 votesNow, i wont try and defend Fizz, because he is broken as shit, and i also want Talon's silence back, but...
Trying to compare skills that like is just fucking stupid. First, Talon's gap closer is an instant teleport point and click skill. Fizz's has a cast time, and is a skill shot (loosely. but yes, when used to close the gap you can miss if the target isnt in your ult). Not comparable at all.
But yeah, give Talon back his silence, and gut the fucking fish.
Zeref5 votesMan these kids complaining about something they know nothing about.. 
As a Lux main, I prefer going against a Fizz instead of a Talon (even after Cutthroat's nerf.) At least I could retaliate if Fizz tries to dash to me by waiting out his E before I snare. Meanwhile, I'm just a sitting duck while Talon drops me from 100-0 because of the silence.
Assassins already deal shitloads of damage in a blink; giving them a silence means their opponents have zero chance of counterplaying.
Llanite4 votesNothing stop you from dashing away from his E/R, no?
And Fizz is meat if you survive his initial combo (w/ some MR), Talon will AA you to dead after the combo, plus, he has W to poke someone down/ farm from range when he's behind, Fizz doesn't.
AetherKingdom3 votesNothing stop you from dashing away from his E/R, no?
And Fizz is meat if you survive his initial combo (w/ some MR), Talon will AA you to dead after the combo, plus, he has W to poke someone down/ farm from range when he's behind, Fizz doesn't.
Comparing Talon AA to Fizz AA. lmao. Fizz autos are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy stronger than Talons
Rustling Bush3 votesNothing stop you from dashing away from his E/R, no?
And Fizz is meat if you survive his initial combo (w/ some MR), Talon will AA you to dead after the combo, plus, he has W to poke someone down/ farm from range when he's behind, Fizz doesn't.
Comparing Talon AA to Fizz AA. lmao. Fizz autos are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy stronger than Talons
but can you cast abilities while fizz is AA? yes. can you can cast spells or AA when old talon ewqr/weqr, because those combos only took a second and you were dead.
AetherKingdom3 votesNothing stop you from dashing away from his E/R, no?
And Fizz is meat if you survive his initial combo (w/ some MR), Talon will AA you to dead after the combo, plus, he has W to poke someone down/ farm from range when he's behind, Fizz doesn't.
Comparing Talon AA to Fizz AA. lmao. Fizz autos are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy stronger than Talons
but can you cast abilities while fizz is AA? yes. can you can cast spells or AA when old talon ewqr/weqr, because those combos only took a second and you were dead.
Fizz E ur ablities kek
Delioth2 votesBut the problem is that Fizz is SILENCED during the abilities- he can't do anything. At All.
AetherKingdom2 votesBut the problem is that Fizz is SILENCED during the abilities- he can't do anything. At All.
He can auto attack, which has a large burning passive. And Talon can't constantly use it, or reliably burst people without his ultimate.
Llanite1 votes"Large".
Up to lvl15, W does 4% missing + 30+ 35% AP and doesnt stack with each other. So you combo him for 10000 dmg, he can retaliate, say, w/ 300AP = 30+105 over 3 seconds + 4% missing? That's almost, a Talon AA, over 3 seconds? Unbelievably large.
Ale non è male4 votesWell, no. Talon AA **in his combo ** are enhanced by Cutthroat amplification damage + his passive upon Rake slow + he can build crit on AAs and get crit damage on AAs(while Fizz doesn't build crit) + he has an AA enhancer and reset on Noxian Diplomacy(that also deal DoT), and those are powerful enough to kill you in very short time If Talon isn't capable to kill you through that 3 sec window(assuming you hit rake correctly and so you have the double amplification of the damage for all the Cutthroat duration) he is doing something wrong Also, you could always theoretically choose to get Frozen Mallet and lose some burst but getting perma damage amplification on AA(even though it wouldn't be that wise for a champ that should burst down enemies)
Sammystorm4 votesAt least you can dodge playful trickster. If Talon landed Cut throat you were just screwed period. So comparing a skill of walk with in x range and your screwed to walk with in x range and you might be screwed is kind of silly.
Talon shouldn't have ever had a silence
Smackledorb3 votesthey should revert every champ back to their original selves {post reworks}. so this game can be fun again.
Its All Skillzz1 votesthey should revert every champ back to their original selves {post reworks}. so this game can be fun again.
Pre rework twitch would love this. also unnerfed ezreal and graves and jinx. ashe gets her shotgun volley back and ofc the canerous yasuo and unnerfed every other broken champion. we will just be all so op that it will be fun.
P00Pl0ser691 votesAP Nasus Freelo, here i come!
JustMyBassCannon3 votesY'all mofuggas need Beta Jax
Smackledorb2 votesdont forget kayle and yi bro oh and khazix and gragas. remember when these were fun to play? nah people think league of nerfs is fun
Junkο1 votesIdk if playing against AP Yi or Trynd for would be fun
AetherKingdom3 votes...But Fizz's total invulnerability massive AoE damage dealing gap closer on a shorter cooldown that can also actually be used as an escape apparently does? Riot nerf this piece of shit's W or give Talon back his silence.
not total invulnerable, untargetable. Fizz is fucking stupid though.
P00Pl0ser693 votesThe irony is in the title itself.
He could just jump to you, silence and Burst you within the duration and there was NOTHING you could do about it.
RevyUp2 votesThe irony is in the title itself.
He could just jump to you, silence and Burst you within the duration and there was NOTHING you could do about it.
Can't burst mages do that as well from a range? Annie ults then proceeds to burst you down. There is also veigar and syndra. Granted veigar can miss with his stun but syndra can easily poke you down and wait still she can get a stun off you.
Junkο1 votesVeigar just needs to press R after farming under turret for 15 min
Kitten Eater3 votesQSS. Stop complaining. The real problem with talon is his huge ass burst, not his gap closing silence >_>
Otherwise build QSS, armor/hp shit, more tenacity, banshee veil. And nerf his burst. its too crazy
ZeroAnarchy1 votesTalon's burst compared to other assassins is quite low.
JustMyBassCannon3 votesYes, Talon having a silence attached to his E was unhealthy. In general, impossible-to-miss, hard CC on an assassin is bad balance. It was quite literally impossible to react to Talon's E-W-Q-R/E-Q-W-R combo, because all of them would land hits within a second, then he'd be invisible by the time the silence was over.
The only possible counter-play to Talon's combo was to not stand anywhere near him.
Fizz's E damage is avoidable, and you can force him to use it to avoid a weak spell, then land everything else. Or you can use CC, preventing him from using his E. His only CC is on his ultimate, which is not difficult to avoid.
You're comparing an instant, unavoidable, 700-range "You're fucked" button to a defense mechanic that has existed long before Talon.
OyddAWqJ5r2 votesAgree 100%. Screw Fizz's E. Also, his Q's visual not matching what actually happens. Q a target that dashes/flashes? Still does damage even though he's nowhere near them.
Spacesuit Spiff2 votesWhy does nobody talk about Yi's Q, which is almost the same as the trollpole? Only real difference is that it isn't free cast, and he can still Q minions to escape.
WooBeeWoo2 votesYeah I hate fizz. I don't like that he gets tons of damage, mobility, an untargetable, AOE, and cc. Like WTF take one of those things away.
Darkwind2 votesWell... uh you can dodge it reasonably easily... and not blow projectile skills until he uses it....
Also it's his e
forist1 votesYou're comparing a broken champ to a champ that was never broken, comparing talon to fizz is like comparing ashe to lucian, except ashe didn't get a massive nerf. So I see your point, either buff one or nerf the other. Well, we all know that the more popular champion will win, so fizz is safe and talon won't be fixed.
forist1 votesTalon is too squishy to justify extended fights with auto-attacking, frozen mallet has never been a good item on him.
Solidair31 votesThe two changes I would make to fizz: take away his % damage *no assassin needs to be a tank buster) and make his Q not deal damage if it doesn't connect
TheFallenShaw1 votesnew season new updates Talon still doesnt get his silence but Items have a passives that prevent cc appear... No more need for silence...
