If someone on your team says they have trouble playing against a specific champ

Goth Thot·Oct 22, 2014·99 votes·8,992 views

You're way better off banning that champ than something else entirely because it's "meta OP".

Like, if you're in bronze and your ADC says they have trouble with dodging Blitz grabs fucking ban Blitz over something like Zed or Vayne who are only objectively strong if played w/ a high amount of skill (ie: not in bronze). On which note don't yell at your first pick for banning out a champion they have trouble with even if it's not "OP" (I admit it's selfish to put all three bans towards your own lane, but if they use one like that then who cares. It's so THEY don't feed, which is a good thing)

(Note I'm talking about ranked here, it's probably better to encourage people to lrn how to beat their nightmare champs in normals)

79 Comments

WorgslargOct 22, 201433 votes

This^.

Bans are meant to be used to eliminate champions that your team does not want to play against. If those are the most op champsl so be it. But if your adc is gonna go twitch, you're better off banning cait than tristana.

RagingHIVOct 22, 20147 votes

This^.

Bans are meant to be used to eliminate champions that your team does not want to play against. If those are the most op champsl so be it. But if your adc is gonna go twitch, you're better off banning cait than tristana.

Caitlyn is probably the only ADC you should worry about banning in Bronze and Silver.

WorgslargOct 22, 20146 votes

And yet, I can't remember when I last saw Cait banned, instead of lucian, yasuo, tristana, zed, akali, and fizz.

MastèrBaitèrOct 23, 20143 votes

This^.

Bans are meant to be used to eliminate champions that your team does not want to play against. If those are the most op champsl so be it. But if your adc is gonna go twitch, you're better off banning cait than tristana.

I don't get why people don't do this. if i can wreck as riven top and carry, banning maokao or trist isn't gonna do anything(since i can wreck em) might as well prevent my counters, and ensure i do well.

FeathermaneOct 23, 20143 votes

Realistically, all you are going to do as Riven is feed. I'd rather ban her to prevent that.

MastèrBaitèrOct 23, 201412 votes

Realistically, all you are going to do as Riven is feed. I'd rather ban her to prevent that.

madcuzbad? The salt is real. Sounds like you got whooped by one.

Ooop you've played 3 riven games, 2 bot and 1 normal and the 1 normal you did horrible in. Some diamond.

FluxBoundOct 23, 20144 votes

shots fired I think he just got roasted

MrBuffingtonOct 23, 20143 votes

This^.

Bans are meant to be used to eliminate champions that your team does not want to play against. If those are the most op champsl so be it. But if your adc is gonna go twitch, you're better off banning cait than tristana.

^ This is why you ask for who your team wants to ban when you start. If no one says anything, you default to the meta bans.

MastèrBaitèrOct 23, 20142 votes

This^.

Bans are meant to be used to eliminate champions that your team does not want to play against. If those are the most op champsl so be it. But if your adc is gonna go twitch, you're better off banning cait than tristana.

^ This is why you ask for who your team wants to ban when you start. If no one says anything, you default to the meta bans.

the problem with that i believe is a lot of people don't know this and straight default. There are a few players who ask and i am like I LOVE YOU

doubleguacOct 22, 20149 votes

I frequently ask for irelia bans in ranked, not because she's wildly overpowered, but because she's pretty popular and she hard counters my two best champions in lane.

The banning phase wasn't designed to knock out FotM OPs, it was designed to knock out potential counterpicks to your comp. I mean, obviously, there are always going to be champions that are a bit over-tuned. A game as huge as league is impossible to ever totally balance. But, in a lot of cases, banning counter picks is just as valuable, if not more so, than banning Yasuo every game. (Seriously though, stop banning Yasuo, there are so many better options at this point, even if you are just trying to knock out FotM champs).

People are usually pretty cool about it. I'd say about half the team captains I play with will knock out irelia for me, and I rarely get shit when I'm team captain and I do it myself.

JunkοOct 22, 20146 votes

I can't play against Urgot

OblongOtterOct 23, 20141 votes

I can't play against Yorick. Although who can?

insaiyanbaccaNov 2, 20142 votes

trundle the answer to beating yorick is trundle

MAZZ1M0Oct 22, 20144 votes

100% right. I wish players would think rather than be herded off a cliff by the meta.

Whenever I play Draft and I get to ban I always just ask my teammates after promptly banning Heimerdinger. "Heimer? Lol U NOOB!" Try ganking him with Shyvana when your mid-laners never take out his **** turrets. Mid-lane becomes a no-mans'-land, or no-fly-zone in Shyvana's case.

Likewise, Nasus gives me problems top-lane. On that same note, Master Yi, Yasuo, Braum, Morgana, etc. they don't scare me. I find them fairly easy to shut down with some coordination from my team.

Rock RockburghOct 22, 20141 votes

Slightly off-topic, but as someone who likes Nasus, here are some tips for playing against him:

He really struggles under heavy harass. If you can keep him below 75%, he'll probably be more careful, which means more missed CS, which means less stacks. In turn, this means he can't push as hard when you need to leave lane.
Since he's so immobile, you can comfortably poke from a distance. If you know you'll be against a Nasus, try to pick a ranged toplaner who can stay away-- when gank time comes, leave tanking to the jungler, unless you're bait.

MAZZ1M0Oct 23, 20141 votes

Slightly off-topic, but as someone who likes Nasus, here are some tips for playing against him:

He really struggles under heavy harass. If you can keep him below 75%, he'll probably be more careful, which means more missed CS, which means less stacks. In turn, this means he can't push as hard when you need to leave lane.

Since he's so immobile, you can comfortably poke from a distance. If you know you'll be against a Nasus, try to pick a ranged toplaner who can stay away-- when gank time comes, leave tanking to the jungler, unless you're bait.

ty for the advice, but my problem is I use Riven, Shyvana, and Veigar top. Riven has no range and Nasus' Wither destroys me. With Shyvana, it's just a bar brawl and he's too tanky for Shyvana's crappy E to do anything at early levels. Then once he farms, cuz he can tank all my hits, he eventually beats me down because I can't stop him from getting CS. I have poked, I have gone all-in, but he just takes the damage, Withers me and walks away, or chases me down and beats the crap out of me once he gets the CS. Veigar can't hurt him early on without suffering for lack of farm later. He's got serious mana problems early on and I focus everything on farming my Q. Now this is a double-edged sword. I've had better success with it, but it can be problematic for my team if they can't handle a fed Nasus. On the flipside, I'm a fed Veigar and that has it's own advantages. Most people can't handle instakill-nuke, but like I said, double-edged sword. All that said, any suggestions on how to keep him from farming without dying?

Espy PsycheOct 23, 20141 votes

Try Quinn or Gangplank against Nasus. That's what I usually use to beat him in lane.

insaiyanbaccaNov 2, 20141 votes

i give the suggestion of trundle if you can learn him its more of a skill match-up. also gnar wrecks him pretty good

CaesarFlickermanOct 22, 20144 votes

Honestly, I ban the OP champs in ranked so that my idiot teammates won't pick them because they're OP. Been scarred on that too many times.

ezreal stinksOct 22, 20144 votes

Honestly, I ban the OP champs in ranked so that my idiot teammates won't pick them because they're OP. Been scarred on that too many times.

this too. idk how many times i've seen yas left open and somebody on my team is like don't worry i'll pick him and then just pulls the impossible and feeds hard as hell on yasuo.

OblongOtterOct 23, 20141 votes

Well he's kind of awful now, at least in low elo. Although this brings me back to the days of "Ooh Kass isn't banned, who want's to play him?" "I don't know how" "Me neither" "Me neither" "I don't even own him."

FluxBoundOct 23, 20142 votes

mmm, the days when the ban phase always when "ban kass"x4

EleshakaiOct 22, 20143 votes

This is a fair point for bronze/silver at least.

Pudii PudiiOct 22, 20148 votes

This is a fair point for bronze/silver at least.

Fair points to about platinum/diamond, unless you are one of the gifted few who have a champion pool larger than 10. The only time I go against this is if the team as a whole believes it's manageable even if that champion gets a little out of hand or if the mid/jungle agrees to show that struggling lane a bit more love than normal.

Some picks are OP but I'll let the average scrub pick yasuo because it's open and ensure that my top lane fiora doesn't have to lane against Ryze/Swain because Yasuo takes a decent amount of skill to play post laning phase.

Then again my thought process is always comfort picks over meta/OP picks, in solo queue the team that gets the lead first normally wins regardless of team comp, unless you're playing an all AD comp. I'll take the Shaco main over the last pick guy begging us to instant lock rengar just because he's open.

OnegarionOct 22, 20142 votes

I think the same way. I'll play a champ i'm more comfortable with than an "OP" champ. I like playing MonkeyKing jungle and Lissandra top because thats more comfortable for me. Honestly I tend to perform better overall as well when i do pick these champs. Clearly meaning I should play them more lol

THe thing that gets me is when the FoTM champs are complained immensely about, but people don't want to learn to counter them. When you know the OP champs wouldn't that make it easier to go with their counter picks no matter how niche they are? I mean if Zed is strong why not pick champs that will beat him in lane overall. I like to play champs like Lissandra (again) against him for the same reason I pick her against other assassins. She has a zone of control that excels at keeping alive against assassins. I digress tho.

I think low elo players put to much into OP champs as a whole and focus on them so heavily. They need to tone back their own views on them and not expect so much from them. LIke trist isn't much of a problem with early harass champs. Pushing her into tower and causing her to miss out on CS. Since its so hard to kill her once she gets her jump you have to focus on denying her CS more than killing her. yet people seem to not realize simple things like this. When playing against zed get a QSS. Simple as that. Yet on ADCs its like its a terrible item that serves no purpose. Kinda saddens me really lol

Drunk RummateOct 22, 20143 votes

I'd sooner just ban out the free win champs like rammus and amumu, but thx for the suggestion.

AnomanderOct 22, 20142 votes

Well I kinda agree however if it is some like ryze or another top laner I would prolly just camp that lane as a jungle and make the counter pick cry.......

WorgslargOct 22, 20141 votes

Take ryze against nunu or heimerdonger. You will lose lane so hard, and jungler intervention will mean nothing.

AnomanderOct 22, 20141 votes

The point was if they want me to ban ryze. And no they will not lose so hard a DECENT camping jungle can't make them cry.

WorgslargOct 22, 20143 votes

Full AP nunu ~~destroys~~ ~~annihilates~~ obliterates ryze in lane. You cant even cs under tower.

AnomanderOct 22, 20146 votes

A Full AP nunu who try to keep a ryze from even farming under tower will EXPLODE to a decent gank. And while your NUNU is dead ryze will farm just fine. Rinse and repeat. And believe me a ryze that get 1-2 lvls ahead and 2 kills ahead with some time to free farm will eat a nunu all day.

AltmaOct 23, 20141 votes

Well I kinda agree however if it is some like ryze or another top laner I would prolly just camp that lane as a jungle and make the counter pick cry.......

I love being camped as Ryze. By the time level 2 has come around, the enemy top laner is usually around 20% hp with all of his potions spent, and I have W for when the jungler comes up. Very few top laners can trade with Ryze at all, and if he was chosen as a counter pick - it's even worse. With a level 3 back + tele for Tear, as long as I don't get killed by the first gank and I'm not against a Tryndamere, Jax or Rengar, I'm usually unstoppable until my poor team fighting skills come out.(I'm only gold for a reason. :P)

MastèrBaitèrOct 23, 20142 votes

Well I kinda agree however if it is some like ryze or another top laner I would prolly just camp that lane as a jungle and make the counter pick cry.......

I love being camped as Ryze. By the time level 2 has come around, the enemy top laner is usually around 20% hp with all of his potions spent, and I have W for when the jungler comes up. Very few top laners can trade with Ryze at all, and if he was chosen as a counter pick - it's even worse. With a level 3 back + tele for Tear, as long as I don't get killed by the first gank and I'm not against a Tryndamere, Jax or Rengar, I'm usually unstoppable until my poor team fighting skills come out.(I'm only gold for a reason. :P)

What elo is this that a jungler is finishing red with all potions spent and stuck at 20% hp at lvl3?

AS a jungle main you should be done with red and be near full hp with 1 potion or near full with all potions spent unless you're

not using right runes
not right masteries 3)not playing a jungler, you're playing a ganker(those who do more dmg on ganks so you take them to jungle to get fed)

AnomalousChimeraOct 23, 20142 votes

Dude, read, man.

He said the enemy top laner, not your jungler, is around 20% with all of his potions spent.

Disclaimer: I make no comment about whether what Akimasu says happens to be a common occurrence.

RaptameiOct 22, 20142 votes

Don't ban the OP champions because that denies them to your own team as well.

Ban things like Blitz in bronze or Akali in silver so the baboons on your team don't feed them.

FeathermaneOct 23, 20142 votes

None of the monkeys in solo q care about actually PICKING one of the so-called OP champions. They like to switch their brains off and emulate the LCS.

TenSlashTenOct 22, 20142 votes

thresh/lucian/fizz/yasuo. Not because of kit/being broken since release with high ratios Because when they get fed I can't out carry them.

So annoying.

ezreal stinksOct 22, 20142 votes

i tend to ban strong midlaners who have potential to snowball like crazy. fizz/akali/zed and yas to a lesser extent are extremely hard to kill especially when they're fed. i normally don't go mid either because i'm not that great at mid, but when you see a fizz on the other team there is a 99% chance your teams mid is going to feed him, and then when he gets that hourglass he's near impossible to kill while just instantly deleting my adc. i ban yas because he can still very easily win lane match ups he's not supposed to and his nerfs did nothing to his mid/late game where he is still a monster if played right (and he's not even that hard to do well on)

The Fat PunisherOct 23, 20142 votes

I'm a Kat main. and i get shit for asking for Diana/Leblanc bans.

i get it okay. but god forbid i find that one trick pony Diana players that tears my rectum to shreds

AloneInTheCrowdNov 6, 20142 votes

We definitely need 10 bans per game at this point , for solo 1 ban per person ( no team captain in solo queue - makes no sense ) . Then you'll see how exciting solo queue will become .

GorgannanOct 23, 20141 votes

While I agree with this, it must also be balanced with not banning someone with a .8% pick rate. That WILL cause fights.

Akali give you problems? Ban her.

Quinn? Please don't.

RiotAutumnMemoryNov 17, 20141 votes

Absolutely agree with you that the ban picks should be tailored to the team.

The generic case scenario of "ban conflict" is more like: Player 1 wants to ban champion A, B and C, and Player 2 wants to ban champion E, F & G. This is based on the assumption of player 1 is having trouble dealing with Champion A, B and C, and Player 2 is having trouble dealing with champion E, F & G. (This case of scenario is a bit extreme, as general conflict is probably only 1 champ ban instead of all 3 champs bans). For problem isolation, assume the opponent team will not ban any of the champs that Player 1 and Player 2 wants to ban.

How would you suggest resolving the ban conflict in above scenario?

CuixNov 17, 20142 votes

A/B + C + D/E, obviously. Edit: The post originally said Player 1 had trouble with ABC and Player 2 had trouble with CDE. It got changed without mention after I pointed out the clear solution.

ShadowKnight1224Nov 18, 20142 votes

Compromising. Talk to the team to see if anyone is playing a champion that makes a ban unnecessary. Supports and junglers in particular can shut down problematic people. Sometimes team-oriented top/midlaners can also do this. Something like this:

Player A: "I want to ban leona, morgana and caitlyn because I'm going ADC and they're my nightmares." Player B: "But I'm going mid and I want Akali, Katarina and Zed banned!"

The ideal situation is to say, for example:

Player C: "I'm going Janna support, my Q can stop Leona's E in mid-dash, so she never gets to stun you, and my shield can mitigate Caitlyn's poke. I can also buy a Mikael's against Morgana but admittedly it's no guarantee." Player D: "I'm going Lissandra top. If we get Akali or Zed, we can lane-swap. They're not an inconvenience to me. Katarina's trickier, but I can make do as well." Player E: "Fizz is pretty annoying, even if you're going as Lissandra. We should consider a ban for him."

So the players decide that they want to ban Morgana, Katarina and Fizz, and they start the game already establishing the basics of teamwork.

ByrnesNov 18, 20142 votes

A while back, in an explanation as to why we cannot have a number-of-bans increase, Zil explained that the number of bans were meant to signify, and for the use of, the number of "z" class champions - essentially the champions that were considered over-powered, but not yet nerfed. If this remains the case, it makes it hard justifying any particular ban for any other reason but to ban overpowered/easily abused champions. Not to say the other team would pick those champions (in fact, you may be able to pick said champion before the other team does), but it does make it harder to react in specific cases like these.

Just my two cents.

RiotAutumnMemoryNov 19, 20143 votes

Agreed, the best situation would be taking the champs that need to be banned so we save our ban slot.

In situation when above case scenario doesn't occur, I know we should be compromising between 2 players, but the way how I thought is... bot lane has two champs. when one gets screwed, it will lead to both champs lose gold/exp. That would be 40% of your team that are in disadvantage.

I hate to say this, but if I were in ban position, I would probably just allow pick the best bans for ADC/Support. My favor goes to ADC/Support/Jungle/Mid/Top. The only reason I have this order is because the amount of team fight that each role are in early game. (Obviously this doesn't happen as always, you sure may have all the team fight on top lane. But this is generally true as bot usually have more team fights and Jungler usually gank bot more than gank mid/top).

This not meant to be a right/wrong answer. I just wanted to know what majority ppl would do in this situation. I'm still a silver, and is still in the learning process...

ByrnesNov 19, 20142 votes

I actually completely agree with you on this too, but I may be biased because I'm a support player. I usually ban out (if I'm first pick) the champions that I know will give me or my lane a hard time in bot lane. I, unfortunately, do not keep up with the flavors of the month or what is currently considered OP, so I just roll with it. Lucian and Morgana seem to usually win lanes, so I just toss them as fast as I can, haha.

Learning is good! And hey, even for the best of players it takes forever and a half to climb out of silver (and then gold). And that climb is probably the best learning experience one can get!

And if nothing else, Janna summoner 6 all the way!

OrisiNov 19, 20141 votes

Assess which player has a 'best' champion that can be first picked by the team leader. So if player 1 is best with CY and the TL can pick CY and swap, ban Champs ADE. Helps to balance both players as best you can.

I'm totally for banning who you struggle with not the meta. I often find Braum and Morg banned because some people can't handle them; I can handle or play both happily, but can't stand Blitz, and if you ban Morg and Braum you make a Blitz pick much harder to lane against if you can't rely on sheer dodge (I play on 180ms ping, which I find playable easily enough, but the speed of blitz grabs makes dodging them hard, shielding is almost as difficult but still much easier than relying on movement speed.)

RaemnantNov 19, 20141 votes

I think my nightmare lane would be Fiddlesticks/Vayne botlane combo. Vayne always gets me with the fact that she has crazy chase potential, and can auto you, catch up, auto, tumble, auto again while youre trying to back off. And then theres fiddle with his incredibly annoying harass. I agree though, bans should be used to get rid of champs you dont like to lane against. Or with(I'm looking at you, support blitz and teemo tops)