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Suggestion: Only Allow Champions' Ranked Use at Tier 5 Mastery

Teridax68··4 votes·3,345 views

EDIT: Due to how recent Champion Mastery is as a feature, this might not be something to implement immediately; rather, I think this could work after everyone has had sufficient time to show experience with champions they've already mastered to a degree, so likely a season or two.

Right now, I feel there are two separate problems with Champion Mastery and Ranked play. On one hand, Champion Mastery, while a cool way of earning bragging rights, doesn't feel too useful or relevant in the long run, particularly since it carries very little reward beyond just another badge. On the other, Ranked mode is unstable for a ton of different reasons, especially following champion releases or major reworks, partly because a lot of players take flavor-of-the-month champions, or simply champions that seem interesting, and test them out in a competitive setting with little to no practice. I feel a solution to these issues would be to connect the two systems: disable all champions for Ranked play as a baseline, and have tier 5 "unlock" the relevant champion for use in Ranked mode. Ranked mode itself could then be locked until players have a certain amount of "unlocked" champions (say, 15).

The major pro to this would be that it would tighten the entry-level skill requirement for Ranked play without affecting anything at higher levels: serious Ranked players have almost definitely mastered more than the required amount of champions, and players who have an insufficient level of champion mastery should probably not be diving immediately into Ranked mode anyways. It would also add a feeling of reward to Tier 5 mastery beyond just a shiny medal, and could encourage players to try out those champions in Ranked in a healthier way ("I have a fair amount of experience with this champion, maybe I should try them in Ranked", rather than "this champion looks cool/overpowered, maybe I should try them out in Ranked mode and see what happens"). A con to this is that it would significantly delay entry into Ranked, though I feel that would be a good thing, as Ranked mode is meant to be about high-quality play, which isn't achievable right off the bat.

116 Comments

Gwellaouen6 votes

With this, I couldn't play ranked because I do not have a 5th mastery champion even if I play league since Season 3. I played some champions much more than what it takes to bring them to level 5th mastery tier.

I don't think it will be a good idea since these masteries tiers came up only recently. Most of the players couldn't ranked anymore until they master enough champions and no one plays league 24/24h. So it could takes a long time.

Just my opinion. ^^

P.S.: Sorry if I made mistakes. English is not my first language.

Marthian6 votes

No and here's why it WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

  • If someone mains only one role, they will ONLY have champions for that role. If this happens to multiple people in the same team, you are screwed.
  • Champion Mastery isn't necessarily indicative of a player's skill with a champion. You could have a r5 bard and they'd still do terrible because they are just terrible at him, they just played a lot of games (which this system WOULD NOT prevent). Meanwhile you might have a r1 or r2 Bard that does absolutely amazing because they are good with the champion but don't play them often (I seldom play Ryze to have a good enough mastery score, but I still do amazingly well with him.)
  • Would just be another wall to playing. Not only would you need to master SEVERAL champions to even play, if you need to pick a specific champion you know you are good at but don't play often, you can't pick it because of arbitrary bs, and are potentially forced into countering yourself because of a stupid system limitation. Reaching level 30 is already enough of a gate for ranked. Having several sets of runes, masteries, and champions is also another gate to ranked play.
  • If it's to stop trolls, THEY WILL FIND OTHER WAYS TO TROLL.

So basically, it does nothing helpful and just makes the game worse to play.

Teridax681 votes

{quoted}

  • If someone mains only one role, they will ONLY have champions for that role. If this happens to multiple people in the same team, you are screwed.

This is still valid even in the current system. A player who only mains one role will have the same difficulty in Ranked with my proposed implementation as they would in the current one. Perhaps it would be worth modifying the requirements a little (e.g. you'd have to Master a certain number of champions in each role, rather than an overall set amount of champions), but this is an issue in both systems.

{quoted}

  • Champion Mastery isn't necessarily indicative of a player's skill with a champion. You could have a r5 bard and they'd still do terrible because they are just terrible at him, they just played a lot of games (which this system WOULD NOT prevent). Meanwhile you might have a r1 or r2 Bard that does absolutely amazing because they are good with the champion but don't play them often (I seldom play Ryze to have a good enough mastery score, but I still do amazingly well with him.)

Fair enough, but at least that player would have a baseline level of experience with him, whereas even a top-tier support player would likely not play him well on the first try. I'm not trying to increase overall player skill, just baseline experience as a requirement for Ranked.

{quoted}

  • Would just be another wall to playing. Not only would you need to master SEVERAL champions to even play, if you need to pick a specific champion you know you are good at but don't play often, you can't pick it because of arbitrary bs, and are potentially forced into countering yourself because of a stupid system limitation. Reaching level 30 is already enough of a gate for ranked. Having several sets of runes, masteries, and champions is also another gate to ranked play.

Normals are already accessible enough, and there is nothing that Ranked offers over it besides an added competitive edge.

{quoted}

  • If it's to stop trolls, THEY WILL FIND OTHER WAYS TO TROLL.

Aside from the fact that this would genuinely reduce trolls' options, this is not meant to target trolling. I personally don't think people trying out champions for the first time in Ranked are doing so to troll their teammates; rather, I think they do so because they genuinely believe they can play that champion with a good enough level of mastery right from the get-go, and the above proposed barrier to entry would temper that urge, which has unavoidably negative consequences on their play and their team's chances of success.

Marthian1 votes

This is still valid even in the current system. A player who only mains one role will have the same difficulty in Ranked with my proposed implementation as they would in the current one. Perhaps it would be worth modifying the requirements a little (e.g. you'd have to Master a certain number of champions in each role, rather than an overall set amount of champions), but this is an issue in both systems.

Except in your system, they would ONLY be able to pick those champions. If they need to pick other champions or roles, they are screwed. I've played champions I never play normally in ranked because of counterpicks or not getting a role I'm good at. Such a system means I can't be adaptive at all.

Fair enough, but at least that player would have a baseline level of experience with him, whereas even a top-tier support player would likely not play him well on the first try. I'm not trying to increase overall player skill, just baseline experience as a requirement for Ranked.

Except what's the point if that baseline of experience is being a horrible player. Being level 30 and owning several champions IS the requirement for ranked. There is no point to making it more complicated.

Normals are already accessible enough, and there is nothing that Ranked offers over it besides an added competitive edge.

You completely miss the point of ranked. It's not about accessability, it's about proving you are "the best" player, and being "the best" player includes being adaptive in your champion selection, which may include playing characters you've never played. It'd just make it so you'd have to grind to do ranked, and no one wants that. Lots of players are already good at picking a champion they aren't good with and making decisions on the fly on how to play them, what to build, etc. I hate to point it out, but you aren't even ranked at all. How can you talk about making changes to ranked play if you've never even experienced it for yourself? It isn't just picking whatever champion you're good at, it's about picking safe picks or countering the enemy team.

I think they do so because they genuinely believe they can play that champion with a good enough level of mastery right from the get-go, and the above proposed barrier to entry would temper that urge, which has unavoidably negative consequences on their play and their team's chances of success.

So instead of picking a counterpick that you know will crush the other team and are capable of playing, you are forced to pick a champion that is countered by the other team? That is just frustrating. What is wrong with the urge to pick a champion you know you can play but haven't played much of? It just only adds unneeded complexity to the game. If a player is going to do well in ranked with their champion picks, their rank WILL reflect that. If not, they'll just drop in tiers.

Angry Monster5 votes

You do not play ranked. Why should you be commenting on how ranked is played?

This is a terrible idea by the way. Your putting extra steps in the way of players when not needed. People will rise and fall as their skill allows. Someone will always be at the bottom of the barrel you putting arbitrary blocks in the way does nothing except maybe makes the Q time longer.

Teridax681 votes

I'm not challenging the effectiveness of Ranked as a judge of player ability, I'm proposing a way to establish a more consistent level of quality play. Every time a champion gets released, there are waves of complaints across the boards about how so many players decided to take that champion to Ranked without any degree of experience, and even outside of releases it's a common complaint that many players try out champions in Ranked without practicing them first. The above suggestion would stamp that out, and leave unaffected those who do actually give their Ranked champions sufficient levels of play (at least once we've given Champion Mastery sufficient time to become a more accurate measure of player experience).

Imo, accessibility is not that important when it comes to Ranked mode, at least not compared to quality of play. Normals are already easily accessible and offer the same gameplay, minus Ranked's competitiveness, so I'd rather people spent more time playing normals and building up a strong core set of champions for Ranked mode.

Angry Monster4 votes

So i am going to quote the important part here.

so I'd rather

Who gives a fuck what you prefer. If you want to play normals that is fine, play normals. Why should your preferences be shoved on others, when they do not effect you in the long term. Hell since you do not play ranked it does not even effect you in the short term.

AGAIN people will rise and fall to the correct level over enough games. All your idea will even do is limit the amount of people and make rank a harder place to enter into. What happens when riot increases the ban count again( it will happen at some point)? Cause we have only 16 level 5 champs we have to grind out 4 more that we may never even use in rank? PURE STUPIDITY, that could be over a month of loss ranked play cause a person may or may not have the time to grind out that many levels.

You really should worry about the mode you play and keep out of the ones you do not.

disregardable4 votes

Do you actually have 16 champions that are mastery tier 5? I have 2, with one that's kinda close.

Teridax681 votes

I have none, but then again I think I should take whomever I'm going to try in Ranked mode to tier 5 first.

Deep Terror Nami2 votes

You're going to have to do it 16 times, because if they pick or ban what you have you won't be able to play the match. 16 champions owned is the requirement to play Ranked so that this doesn't happen; if the requirement that your champion must be Mastery level X to play then you'll need at least 16 of them at that level.

Teridax681 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pX0utKNY,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-07-08T22:27:29.882+0000)

You're going to have to do it 16 times, because if they pick or ban what you have you won't be able to play the match.

Hence the 15-champion Tier 5 mastery requirement. This seems large because Champion Mastery is a recent thing, and nobody would have enough time right now to master 15 champions and enter Ranked, but given enough time it would become a much more accurate measure of champion experience.

Deep Terror Nami2 votes

It's large requirement in general. I don't play 3-4 champions in every role enough to have that. Not many people do. You'd be weeding out all of the occasional playing masters of a few roles leaving just the hardcore jack-of-all-trades the ability to play.

And even if I did have that many at rank 5, I probably still wouldn't have something good for every role because they'd be mostly supports.

If you want to add additional restrictions to Ranked, make it happen naturally on the way to level 30, not force people perfectly capable of playing ranked out of it just to hit a few people that use a champion in Ranked for their first time using it. You can only have one first time, so this scenario is far more rare then you guys whine about

Teridax681 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pX0utKNY,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-08T22:46:35.717+0000)

You'd be weeding out all of the occasional playing masters of a few roles leaving just the hardcore jack-of-all-trades the ability to play.

Well, no, because those jacks-of-all trades would objectively have more overall experience and flexibility than those "masters". I think a big issue with Ranked play, even on a top-tier competitive level, is that players often focus completely on a single role, or a select few champions, and don't practice the rest, which leads to situations where they're a) horribly adapted at playing anything but one or two roles, which limits their comfort zone in ranked, and b) excessively inflexible: any player should be able to have some working knowledge of every role, but min-maxing doesn't allow that, and a lot of players end up even becoming downright toxic because they can't play a role in Ranked well (or don't want to).

Deep Terror Nami2 votes

You shouldn't have to be skilled in every role just to be allowed to play the game. Having options is important, but just because I haven't spend any time in the other roles in a long time shouldn't lock me out of the game.

Teridax681 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pX0utKNY,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-08T22:56:30.778+0000)

You shouldn't have to be skilled in every role just to be allowed to play the game.

Hence the existence of normals. Ranked play isn't "the game", and I think this confusion is a problem when it comes to the quality of Ranked play.

Deep Terror Nami2 votes

HAHAH, you think solo queue is "the game"?

You are so wrong.

Solo Queue is for our convenience. The game is created and balance for 5v5 Ranked Teams. If you want to know who you are playing with, then make or join a Team. Otherwise, stop trying to take away the convenience of the queue designed to be easier to get into.

ZephyrDrake4 votes

so you want to add more dumb restrictions to ranked that are not going to do anything in the long run? the point of you needing 16 champions is so that you get more than enough time to at the bare minimum have the basics nailed down since it requires you to play plenty of matches before you even own 16 champions. Making it so that you also need Tier 5 isn't going to make those players magically not make the exact same mistakes and it's just going to annoy most players because now you are forced to play champions you barely play in order to even be able to play ranked. Tell me how many champions you have that are Tier 5? how many champions you actually use in ranked that would justify having them reach Tier 5? i bet not many

Rueian3 votes

point of 16 champions is because 3 bans and 5 picks for each team. 3+3+5+5=16

Angry Monster2 votes

actually 16 is the bare minimum so you do not get picked out of usable champs. 6 Bans plus 10 total picked equalls 16 needed.

TeemoJenkins4 votes

Fifth thread about this today... and all go immediately negative on voting... i think that's an indication community doesn't approve.

Shroom Junkie4 votes

I have no champions that are rank 5. I have 5 that are rank 4, tons that are rank 3, a few rank 2, and a few rank 1, but none that are rank 5. I'm great at the champions I do main however. And I don't want to fuck around for three months playing one champion just so I can get rank 5 and play Ranked with them, then do it again like 20 times over so I can play every champ I'm good at in Ranked.

Teridax682 votes

Question: of the champions that you mained, which ones did you main before the addition of Champion Mastery? Right now, the big issue is that Champion Mastery is only a recent addition, and would likely not be an accurate measure of experience for players who've been playing League and Ranked for years, but come a season or two it's likely everyone would have a lot more Tier 5 Mastery badges up their sleeve.

Icestar11863 votes

I don't have any champions at tier 5. That doesn't mean I'm not good with them. In my opinion, tier 3 is more than sufficient to demonstrate skill and a skill gate for ranked should be set only at tier 2 - trivial if you can actually win games with the champion.

Teridax681 votes

I feel that's a very subjective assessment, though. A dedicated Ranked player would likely be at the equivalent of Tier 15 Mastery or the like with their main champion, and anyone who's used a champion consistently would eventually take them to Tier 5.

Icestar11861 votes

OK then, for clarification: I feel that at my level of play, tier 3 is sufficient to demonstrate adequate skill, and that mastery tiers above that take a long time to achieve unless you have a dedicated main.

Teridax681 votes

How come? Don't you feel having a champion at Tier 5 would give you stronger experience with their mechanics than at Tier 3? Out of the champions you had in Tier 3, which ones did you play before the Champion Mastery system was released?

Icestar11861 votes

Stronger, yes, but not enough to justify such a high skillgate in ranked.

Out of Maokai, Sejuani, Gragas, Shyvana, Heimerdinger, and Malphite, I only played Heimer and Sej on a regular basis. I play too many champions too often to have a single set main, and I'm always trying new champions whenever I get them, so I have lots of tier 1, 2, and 3 mastery scores, and many champions I don't have mastery on I used to play before the mastery system was implemented (like Cho'gath or Darius, two of my older toplane picks).

Beddlam3 votes

I hate this idea in general, but it is completely impractical until they get ranked teambuilder. What happens when you have 3 players on your team that only have mastery on ADCs?

disregardable5 votes

Nothing wrong with ADCs top or mid. I went 20/3 Jinx top a few ranked games ago. I'll take Ashe, Varus, and Caitlyn into either mid or top, I'll take Vayne top specifically, and if your team needs AP there is always Ezreal.

Angry Monster1 votes

your bronze 4 for a reason.

Deep Terror Nami2 votes

http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/DinosaurWhisperer.jpg

Woah now

Draven Always2 votes

This would not work with new champions, maybe there should be a requirement of level 2, but not level 5.

Sylias Ravenmore2 votes

I think it would be a good idea to require some level of mastery with a champion in ranked, I really hate it when someone first times a champion in a role they have never played just because they think its good for the team, however I also think anyone above silver shouldnt be affected by this as they are already doing what they should but, bronze and silver is full of people doing stupid shit like that. Sure it can be argued getting 16 champs should be the only requirement, but its really scary when you think about the situations where someone plays one champion to 30 and then goes to play ranked sees they need to buy 15 more champions and then go out and buy some rp or blow a shit ton of lp and close that gap. Make people master those 16 champs. After all ranked is about putting the best against the best righjt?

Troy2426211 votes

Why, so people become even less flexible?

"Hey I really can only play jungle and support well, can I have one of those?"

"Sorry, I only have 3 champions at mastery, and they're all junglers."

":C."

"Hey, our top is squishy, have any tank junglers?"

"Not at 5/5."

Teridax681 votes

That's sort of the objective of the 15 champion Mastery requirement. Perhaps it would be worth splitting that requirement to a certain number of champions per role, but that doesn't really affect the core proposal here.

Vistha Kai1 votes

If that's how you imagine it, you might as well ask of a person to have 10 rune pages.

Teridax681 votes

How is that even relevant to the discussion?

Vistha Kai1 votes

That's also a wall for a new player to punch through that says nothing about whenever he can play or not.

Teridax681 votes

But in that case, 10 rune pages would likely be useful, since any fewer and you wouldn't be fully prepared. I dislike runes in general, and I think all 20 rune pages should be made available right from the start, along with all "essential" runes, but they do happen to be necessary for Ranked play. They're not a measure of experience with any champion, though, unlike Champion Mastery, so that's where the comparison falls apart.

Vistha Kai1 votes

After 3 years of playing this game I have 8 rune pages, 5 of which were created this season.

So it's pretty much 2 and a half year with 3 rune pages.

Teridax681 votes

But then you're simply arguing on details. Again, how is this relevant to the original suggestion? Should I really care about how many rune pages you personally own?

Vistha Kai1 votes

I see that when you can't respond to something, you ask what's its relevance to the topic.

Teridax681 votes

How so? You just went on a tangent on your personal number of rune pages, when the main discussion is about forcing players to gain experience on champions in order to play Ranked via Champion Mastery. Again, how is your answer relevant to the main topic? Are you genuinely trying to have an honest discussion here?

Vistha Kai1 votes

I used an argument similar to the one in OP, showing how flawed it is.

You discarded it with "How is this relevant?".

Again, another image. How long is the Champion Mastery out? Two months? I maxed exactly ONE champion and have maybe two at rank 4. At this rate I'd need at least two YEARS to be able to play ranked.

Do you see how idiotic your suggestion is or should I draw it to you?

Teridax681 votes

But we discussed that, and you went on about how you personally found 8 rune pages satisfactory when we were talking about using 10 rune pages as a potential restriction as a vague example. Why even talk about personal preference regarding a hypothetical example? Why even argue on that level of detail when it's irrelevant to the main topic?

ZephyrDrake2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pX0utKNY,comment-id=00100000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-12T20:37:57.448+0000)

I used an argument similar to the one in OP, showing how flawed it is.

You discarded it with "How is this relevant?".

Again, another image. How long is the Champion Mastery out? Two months? I maxed exactly ONE champion and have maybe two at rank 4. At this rate I'd need at least two YEARS to be able to play ranked.

Do you see how idiotic your suggestion is or should I draw it to you?

he cannot see it, i have yet to have a single lvl 5 mastery champion since i play the game maybe 4~5 times a week, if i'm active on the game other weeks i might play once or twice if at all, and i play a large variety of champions because i enjoy them so the highest lvl i have is 3 i believe. But all he sees is "let's make this gate for no reason whatsoever because people in bronze whine too much... even though they will continue to whine and moan afterwards and new players? screw them they are not my issue"

steampig1 votes

Tier 2 would be an acceptable barrier. Tier 5 would not. I have no champs at Tier 5, and only 2 that are close. However, you can make Tier 2 by winning 2 or 3 games with a champ. That would be sufficient to make sure you have at least basic knowledge of the champs abilities. It would prevent people from buying a champ and playing it in ranked immediately, which helps nobody.

Teridax682 votes

Fair enough. I aimed for Tier 5 as I felt that would ensure a strong working knowledge of any champion, but ultimately it comes down to what would most efficiently prevent people from playing Ranked with champions they haven't given sufficient practice.

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