We've seen ADCs in every single role competetively in Season 6

Durfain··4 votes·670 views

Can we admit that AD itemization is broken yet?

17 Comments

ViiLLAiN3 votes

its not broken its just that crit is so ass and we need to buy other items to compete with the dmg and mobility of every other champ

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

its not broken its just that crit is so ass and we need to buy other items to compete with the dmg and mobility of every other champ

you "need to" buy armor pen items just like mages "need" rylais. its optimal, because it grants a large powerspike much sooner than crit itemization does. hence its abused so much.

that doesnt mean crit isnt effective enough, nor does it mean adc cant carry on crit itemization. in fact, you can stack larger amounts of crit and deal more damage on crit items than in previous seasons.

you also have more options to itemize into crit than you ever did, and phantom dancer is straight broken.

and considering how easily accessable last whisper is now, and how powerful fervors midgame impact is on pretty much every adc. even when building for crit, youll powerspike much sooner than you ever used to.

crit builds not being good enough is a load of shit.

Marshbouy2 votes

Yup. And they are making that power spike much lower with the transition to lethality, in theory at least.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

It is not just the transition to Lethality, even. In addition, all ArPen items are somewhat changed and overhauled, and a lot of them use part of their benefits for AD carries:

  • Youmuu's loses its AS boost on activation.
  • Duskblade loses its in-combat movement speed.
  • Maw loses its ArPen and becomes more of a fighter item.
Marshbouy1 votes

Technically correct but also an exaggeration. top/mid ADCs were for a very short period of time after the marksman update overtuned many of them. MF support was picked as a counter and for a team comp. ADC jungle was again, a result of overtuned champions after the update spare a few more resilient ones like Graves Kindred

So you are right, but also an asshole because ATM there is only 1, maybe 2 ADCs being picked on a team in LCS.

Wolfram Oxford1 votes

{quoted}

Technically correct but also an exaggeration. top/mid ADCs were for a very short period of time after the marksman update overtuned many of them. MF support was picked as a counter and for a team comp. ADC jungle was again, a result of overtuned champions after the update spare a few more resilient ones like Graves Kindred

So you are right, but also an asshole because ATM there is only 1, maybe 2 ADCs being picked on a team in LCS.

I wouldn't say that ADCs were picked in roles because they were overtuned, but mainly because they fit whatever role they were being played into. Like Graves as a jungler, he can kite the jungle creeps easy, Graves top has mobility, is resilient, and provides good AD damage, Corki mid provided mixed damage, roam potential, and DPS.

I hate my ADC1 votes

Can you really consider AP MF an ADC though? It's not being played as an ADC but as a support after all. Kindred and Graves are jungler, not seen at the bot lane. Varus is probably the only one who can be seen in two lane as an ADC competitively. Other ADC in mid lanes are most likely going to be AP. Quinn isn't exactly competitive in bot lane last I checked.

Other ADCs only see competitive plays at bot lane. And I don't consider Twitch jungle as competitive.

I don't see anyone talking about Kayle being competitive in 3 different roles (Top, middle and jungle). She's top 5 win rate in both Top and Jungle.

The only reason this is about ADC is because the bot lane role can only be filled competitively by a marksman due to its nature.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

[{quoted}](name=I hate my ADC,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pPkrt0VR,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-11-02T23:25:49.114+0000)

Can you really consider AP MF an ADC though? It's not being played as an ADC but as a support after all. Kindred and Graves are jungler, not seen at the bot lane. Varus is probably the only one who can be seen in two lane as an ADC competitively. Other ADC in mid lanes are most likely going to be AP. Quinn isn't exactly competitive in bot lane last I checked.

Other ADCs only see competitive plays at bot lane. And I don't consider Twitch jungle as competitive.

I don't see anyone talking about Kayle being competitive in 3 different roles (Top, middle and jungle). She's top 5 win rate in both Top and Jungle.

The only reason this is about ADC is because the bot lane role can only be filled competitively by a marksman due to its nature.

i dont know why people keep pretending certain adc arent adc.

kindrd and graves deal sustained damage from a distance. how are they not adc just because theyre jungling?

graves entire concept is retarded being practically a ranged, mobile, bursty, marksmanbruiser.

but there shouldnt be any question that kindred is an adc.

I hate my ADC1 votes

I don't know why people keep pretending a champion role matters. Being a Marksman doesn't tag you as a bot lane champion. Kindred was made specifically for the jungle. You don't see him at the bot lane ever. Because Kindred is a Marksman, doesn't mean every Marksman and their mother are junglers.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=I hate my ADC,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pPkrt0VR,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-11-02T23:43:38.516+0000)

Being a Marksman doesn't tag you as a bot lane champion.

tell that to riot, when people try playing something other than marksman on the bot lane.

i agree. but after 6 years of enforcing support/ranged adc on bot, how about allowing other classes to play down there when adc are allowed to get into other lanes too?

I hate my ADC1 votes

For the simple reason that only marksmans fit for the bot role due to how it works mechanically.

Ask yourself, what does a champion really needs to play at the bot role?

  1. High scalling on items.
  2. Low scalling on levels
  3. Range to be able to CS against a 2 man lane.

Unless they make an AD ranged assassin that doesn't scale on level, you can safely assume that you will almost never see anything but a Marksman. The closest you can get to casters being at the bot lane are Kog'Maw, Corki and Ezreal. You need a champion that relies almost only on Auto Attacks for the majority of it's kit to be a bot lane champion. That's just how it is.

The same logic can be applied to Jungle and Support. To be a Support, you need to be able to thrive in a low XP, low gold environment. To be a Jungler, you need to be able to deal with having no minions to take the neutral damage for you, just enough so that you aren't slowed down by it.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=I hate my ADC,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pPkrt0VR,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-03T00:02:26.134+0000)

For the simple reason that only marksmans fit for the bot role due to how it works mechanically.

Ask yourself, what does a champion really needs to play at the bot role?

  1. High scalling on items.
  2. Low scalling on levels
  3. Range to be able to CS against a 2 man lane.

Unless they make an AD ranged assassin that doesn't scale on level, you can safely assume that you will almost never see anything but a Marksman. The closest you can get to casters being at the bot lane are Kog'Maw, Corki and Ezreal. You need a champion that relies almost only on Auto Attacks for the majority of it's kit to be a bot lane champion. That's just how it is.

The same logic can be applied to Jungle and Support. To be a Support, you need to be able to thrive in a low XP, low gold environment. To be a Jungler, you need to be able to deal with having no minions to take the neutral damage for you, just enough so that you aren't slowed down by it.

over the years other picks had emerged. they usually have been quickly shut down.

i think in season 3 for a short time, people countered marksmen with kill lanes of a tank and a bruiser, or a bruiser and an assassin. riot shut this strategy down within 2 weeks.

marksmen still being played on bot is a large part a result of riot actively enforcing this meta.

I hate my ADC1 votes

They shut down the bruiser bot lane because it was too strong, not to enforce Marksmen. It was overshadowing all the support champions as well as the marksmen. There was no point even playing support back then when half of the games you'd find yourself getting steamrolled by the Relic Shield circle jerk against a Jarvan + Xin.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=I hate my ADC,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pPkrt0VR,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-03T06:06:47.828+0000)

They shut down the bruiser bot lane because it was too strong, not to enforce Marksmen. It was overshadowing all the support champions as well as the marksmen. There was no point even playing support back then when half of the games you'd find yourself getting steamrolled by the Relic Shield circle jerk against a Jarvan + Xin.

first of all it wasnt too strong. it usually went either way. either the bruiser lane snowballed, or the lane snowballed against them. so basically the same situation as now between marksmen, when either side gets 4 man dived under their turret.

and by your same logic we should shut down marksmen bot, because theyre too strong with a support. technically marksmen are crowding out other picks on bot lane, which makes them op in that position as they steamroll all other classes in that position.

what makes them so special, that when a champion is opressive against marksmen on bot lane, he gets nerfed, but when marksmen are opressive against other champions down there, its fine?

sounds like double standarts to me.

i dont think marksmen should be able to successfully solo lane on mid, jungle, or top while simultaneously entirely occupying another position on the team.

I hate my ADC1 votes

You are way too focused on a stupid name. "Marksmen" doesn't mean shit. The only thing that matters here are the champions themselves.

There is only ONE champion that is competitive in more than 2 positions and it's Kayle. Every other champion is either competitive in 1 or 2 positions or not competitive at all.

When Jarvan was capable of going bot lane, he was competitive in Top, Jungle, Bot AND Support. That's why the bruisers champions bot lane was gutted. Because you had CHAMPIONS that were overshadowing every other champions by taking every positions.

Same reason why Lulu got nerfed so she couldn't top lane. Or why Twitch jungle got nerfed.

PureSilvrr1 votes

but it wasn't an ap Mf though, sure spellthiefs was bought, but after that it was full ad itemization, used tospread grievous wounds fromitem 3123 onto the enemy Ekko and Olaf so they couldn't heal

Requiemsfire1 votes

Varus was played as an AD Caster which is what his kit supports.

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