IMO I think Nunu should be classified as a juggernaut rather than Warden

Neamean·May 28, 2017·4 votes·1,161 views

Juggernaut are melee titans who relentlessly march down the opposition and devastate those foolish enough to get within their grasp. They are the only subclass who excel at both dealing and taking significant amounts of damage, but in turn they have a tough time closing in on targets due to their low range and extremely limited mobility.

He is intended to both deal damage and take hits and any one foolish enough to face his full channel ult would take tons of damage. Also his capability to keep an ally alive isn't strong enough to be consider warden.

132 Comments

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 28, 20171 votes

and i feel he is a tank... he has zone and cc ...

and mundo should be a tank too

RalanrMay 28, 20174 votes

Mundo is more of a damage threat. If Mundo is a tank, than Darius might as well be.

And then we get into dumbshit territory.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 28, 20171 votes

what damage does mundo build ?

RalanrMay 28, 20173 votes

Mundo's damage is through attrition, more than any other champion in the game.

He builds to survive longer than his opponent as they trade blows. Eventually his opponent starts realizing Mundo's damage and by then it is too late.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 28, 20171 votes

so he builds tank to survive for 10+ mins and via being hard to kill does damage ?

SOUNDS LIKE A FUKIN TANK

RalanrMay 28, 20171 votes

TANKS DON'T BUILD TO OUTLAST THEIR ENEMY. THEY BUILD TO SURVIVE LONG ENOUGH FOR THEIR TEAMMATES TO CAP ON.

TANKS NO LONGER WIN BATTLES OF ATTRITION, ESPECIALLY COMPARED TO JUGGERNAUTS AND WITH THE GUTTING OF SUNFIRE.

SO YEAH, MUNDO IS A JUGGERNAUT BECAUSE HIS KIT DOESN'T EVEN NEED DAMAGE TO PROVIDE THE KILL POTENTIAL IT NEEDS. IT NEEDS TO SURVIVE. OTHER THAN THAT HE PROVIDES FUCKING NOTHING TO HIS TEAM.

MUNDO DOES DAMAGE AND DOES NOT DIE. HE IS A GODDAMN MOTHERFUCKING JUGGERNAUT, SUNSHINE.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 28, 20171 votes

u can twist it any way you want... he is a tank builds tank does damage by not dying just like a tank

RalanrMay 28, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pPXIG7dc,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-28T22:37:59.710+0000)

u can twist it any way you want... he is a tank builds tank does damage by not dying just like a tank

That is the basic definition of a juggernaut.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 28, 20171 votes

no all other juggernauts build damage to do damage and have high damage in their kits

they lack gap closer and cc

mundo is a tank

ParoeMay 28, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pPXIG7dc,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-28T22:41:22.947+0000)

no all other juggernauts build damage to do damage and have high damage in their kits

they lack gap closer and cc

mundo is a tank

uhh no.

So Juggernauts have:

High base damage
Good scaling
immobility (MS buffs, short-range targeted repositions, and/or some form of displacement
They have powerful sustain of some kind

Mundo has; high base damage Immobility powerful sustain He has a fantastically well scaling E, but everything else is AP and thats just... blegh.

Also... mundo builds item 3748 item 3047 item 3065 item 3742 as his core. Does it look familiar? It should, because thats what every juggernaut who doesnt buy item 3071 builds as their core right now.

Dr. Mundo was the OG juggernaut - the champion that started someone at riot down the path of "something that hurts a lot in longer fights but doesnt scale infinitely".

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 28, 20171 votes

DrMundo item 3068 item 3065 item 3083 item 3053 item 3143 item 3111

RalanrMay 28, 20171 votes

Hey, Steraks is a juggernaut item.

Critmaster GarenMay 28, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pPXIG7dc,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000000000020000,timestamp=2017-05-28T22:58:29.044+0000)

a.) sunfire is complete garbage.

b.) item 3748 hydra is a fantastic item on him, that gives him waveclear, and synergizes with his high health builds, while adding up to a ton of burst with its active and his e.

and there we are again at a typical juggernaut build.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 28, 20171 votes

how is it complete garbage? it gives hp and armor and provides aoe damage along with his W and does bonus damage to minions/monsters

also if u were to play mundo jungle u get item 1401 do you not ?

Critmaster GarenMay 28, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pPXIG7dc,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000000000020000000200000002,timestamp=2017-05-28T23:07:35.815+0000)

lol what does sunfire do that cinderhulk dont?

mundos e translates health into ad. cinderhulk is basically a second warmogs at some point.

Dr. Mundo deals an additional physical damage (5% of max health) on his next basic attack and gains 110 Attack Damage for 5 seconds. Dr. Mundo gains an additional +1.1 Attack Damage () for each percent of his Health he is missing.

this is why titanic hydra is a good item on him imo.

he gains two auto attack resets that scale with a % of his max health. he can actually deal a shitload of burst with that.

Critmaster GarenMay 28, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pPXIG7dc,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000000000020000000200000005,timestamp=2017-05-28T23:14:02.784+0000)

ahh so he does better if u stack health to do damage ?

and them hp he has the more he regens via passive ?

his E does not scale with damage, his W barely does with a lil ap ratio, his Q scales on enemy HP

and his ult scales with his HP

why would you not stack health on a champ who is designed to be a meat shield and not die ?

thats what most juggernauts are designed to do. they all have % health scalings in their kit with high amounts of base damage.

theyre all expected to build maybe one or two bruiser items, and then stack the shit out of health and carry off that.

its why darius and illaoi have % missing health heals in their kits.

actual tanks have the ability to engage fights from distances or multiple abilities to protect and peel. what does mundo have for peel? a mediocre slow?

this is a warden Taric

this is not DrMundo

DeathBurstMay 29, 20171 votes

You can twist it any way you want, if Mundo is a Tank, Darius, Garen, Nasus, Olaf and Illaoi are all Tanks too. Do you actually think Darius is a Tank? 'cause you might be the only one...

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 29, 20171 votes

all the champs u listed build ad and scale with ad

mundo does not ... he only scales with HP , his Q dont scale with any damage he builds, his w has a small ap ratio, his E scales with missing hp, his ult scales with hp which makes him get more hp and his passive scales with hp. his abilities cost HP to use them therefore he stacks hp

RalanrMay 29, 20171 votes

Yeah but he stacks HP so he can end up doing more damage.

Tanks don't stack defensively to do more damage.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 29, 20171 votes

but mundo dont do damge based on his HP ... only in the case of his E where if he is missing HP he does more damage.

his entire kit is build around building no damage at all...

RalanrMay 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pPXIG7dc,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-29T13:45:56.897+0000)

but mundo dont do damge based on his HP ... only in the case of his E where if he is missing HP he does more damage.

his entire kit is build around building no damage at all...

Because his kit grants him enough damage as long as he can survive.

Mundo's purpose is to do damage and not die. That's juggernaut 101.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 29, 20171 votes

but he only does damage by not dying... aka tanking and via not dying he is able to do damage over extended fights like a tank does

for example maokai dont have very good damage in his kit... but due to the fact it takes 2 mins to kill him as a team effort he is able to sustain tons of damage and last that long that he does damage over the course of that fight.

but then again i have games where i have 80k damage to champs and 75k damage to champs as maokai ... and most of that was the ability to use my abilites over and over and tank and sustain damage via team fights and damage all 5 enemies in team fights

RalanrMay 29, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pPXIG7dc,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-29T13:56:12.183+0000)

but he only does damage by not dying... aka tanking and via not dying he is able to do damage over extended fights like a tank does

Except his primary function is literally not dying and doing damage. He can't do anything else a tank is required to do.

for example maokai dont have very good damage in his kit... but due to the fact it takes 2 mins to kill him as a team effort he is able to sustain tons of damage and last that long that he does damage over the course of that fight.

but then again i have games where i have 80k damage to champs and 75k damage to champs as maokai ... and most of that was the ability to use my abilites over and over and tank and sustain damage via team fights and damage all 5 enemies in team fights

I know how tank damage works. What I'm telling you is that that's all Mundo does to the enemy team.

Maokai can engage, peel, and lockdown targets with his roots and knock backs. Mundo can't. He can't engage based on his kit, with only his cleavers helping him close the gap.

I don't know why you think juggernauts need to build AD or damage to function. Their kits are usually designed so that they don't even need to.

Darius gets free AD, Nasus has stacks, Garen has true damage for specific targets, Volibear has a damage ability that scales with health.

Hell, the only juggernauts that even need to build damage are Illaoi and Mordekaiser.

Building damage just helps their kits better. Building health helps Mundo's kit do its job better. Not dying and killing people.

Mundo being a juggernaut doesn't change how he's played. It's just an explanation on how he's meant to be balanced.

He's a durable damage threat. He's not going to provide the CC or utility of a tank.

#Tanky==Tank

EcchiOtakuTMMay 28, 20171 votes

Tanks are those who contain Hard CC and innate kit survivability, item builds never factor into terming something...

Nunu isn't even a tank, he's a bruiser but good ol' riot adding that warden term fits well.

If riot never removed the term bruiser/fighter as the only real term, nunu would still be classified as it. However warden fits what nunu tries to do even if he really isn't a proper tank. He peels as hard as possible and become this annoying furbar who you can't pass nor get away from when he's strong.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 28, 20171 votes

nunu is a tank ... mundo is a tank..

just cuz RITO comes out with re classifications of champs dont mean they arent tanks

hell they consider rengar a "diver" and not an assassin

but if we wanna go with what rito says and does 90% of the time the community cries how shit they are at their job and how bad the game is so why use it as a defense that cuz rito said he is a juggernaut that means he is

Critmaster GarenMay 28, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pPXIG7dc,comment-id=0001000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-05-28T23:19:14.028+0000)

nunu is a tank ... mundo is a tank..

just cuz RITO comes out with re classifications of champs dont mean they arent tanks

hell they consider rengar a "diver" and not an assassin

but if we wanna go with what rito says and does 90% of the time the community cries how shit they are at their job and how bad the game is so why use it as a defense that cuz rito said he is a juggernaut that means he is

it makes 0 sense to classify mundo as a tank. why? because he stacks a ton of health? all juggs are supposed to build like that.

a tank has to have the ability to disrupt and peel at the very least. mundos cleavers dont qualify as peel.

just compare him to actual tanks like Sion Galio Taric with hard aoe cc.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 28, 20171 votes

lol what hard aoe cc does sion really have ? other then his clunky ass Q that is so easy not to be hit by

mundos Q is a more reliable slow

RalanrMay 28, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pPXIG7dc,comment-id=000100000000000000000001000000010000,timestamp=2017-05-28T23:24:52.202+0000)

lol what hard aoe cc does sion really have ? other then his clunky ass Q that is so easy not to be hit by

#HIS MOTHERFUCKING ULT.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 28, 20171 votes

not a reliable form of cc hard as hell to land and use as cc ... and can be easily dodged.

mundos Q is still more reliable

RalanrMay 28, 20173 votes

Reliability is not a factor in what is hard CC and what is not. Sion's ult and Q is hard CC whether it lands or not (at the right charge for his Q anyway). It's just hard CC that misses.

Glory ln DeathMay 29, 20172 votes

And Galio and Taric have more reliable aoe hard CC than Sion? That's the thing with hard CC - it needs to be unreliable or it's too strong. At least Sion's Q can be released early for an aoe slow.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 29, 20171 votes

MUNDOS Q IS CC

Glory ln DeathMay 29, 20171 votes

...

And...?

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Glory ln Death,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pPXIG7dc,comment-id=000100000000000000000001000000010000000100000000,timestamp=2017-05-29T00:45:34.838+0000)

...

And...?

he is a tank

ty very much

Glory ln DeathMay 29, 20172 votes

Well, that doesn't really have anything to do with my comment. But he's not a tank. He doesn't enable his team through CC or protection. He is entirely focused on dealing damage himself.

ParoeMay 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pPXIG7dc,comment-id=00010000000000000000000100000001000000010000000000000001,timestamp=2017-05-29T01:00:26.238+0000)

he has no damage scaling...

he is a meatshield , he isnt a damage dealer ... he is a tank

Mundo? He has damage scaling. What do you think %HP damage is? you realize that mundos E gives him like... 140~200AD at full build right?
You also realize how strong tenacity is on a juggernaut, right? You also realize that soft CC is a fighter thing and not a tank thing right?

Mundo is a fighter through and through. It just happens to be that his E scales very well with HP and his passive/ult are designed to keep him in fights and otherwise be a nuisance with spammable %HP damage, high tenacity, and massive AD steroid that also resets basic attacks.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 29, 20171 votes

the % hp damage he cant scale it scales on the enemys HP not his

ParoeMay 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pPXIG7dc,comment-id=00010000000000000000000100000001000000010000000000000003,timestamp=2017-05-29T01:18:06.793+0000)

the % hp damage he cant scale it scales on the enemys HP not his

And? Its still scaling damage. It doesnt matter if HE doesnt scale it himself - it just means its effective at all stages of the game. Part of the reason why Maokai is so strong right now.

Mundo has 0 defensive abilities. His ultimate isnt meant to be used defensively. Its not a stand behind braum or a leona W. Its like a warwick Q on steroids.

ParoeMay 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pPXIG7dc,comment-id=00010000000000000000000100000001000000010000000000000005,timestamp=2017-05-29T01:35:47.992+0000)

seems like a scaling they would give a TANK

No? the only melees with %HP damage are bruisers.

ParoeMay 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pPXIG7dc,comment-id=00010000000000000000000100000001000000010000000000000007,timestamp=2017-05-29T03:36:09.023+0000)

really? E is %hp damage TORNADO MAGIC DAMAGE PER HALF-SECOND: 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 (+ 15% AP) (+ 2% of target's maximum health) TOTAL TORNADO MAGIC DAMAGE: 45 / 60 / 75 / 90 / 105 (+ 45% AP) (+ 6% of target's maximum health)

thats TWO TANKS right there

and before u cry that they have range in E and Q mundos Q is range as well

and not all bruisers have % hp damage sooo

You DO realize that maokai and post-rework galio are bruisers, right? Bruisers are tanky champions who are intended to buy one or more offensive items and then HP/resistance items.

TANKS are champions who are not intended to buy damage at all, and in fact dont scale well with AD/AP to begin with. BRUISERS are fighters who are intended to buy one or two damage items, and then HP/resistance items.

There are very few true tanks in league of legends. What you - and most other people wrongly believe is a tank - is something like

Olaf item 3748 item 3071 item 3742 item 3065 item 1001 item 3026 . Newsflash; thats a bruiser. Volibear item 1409 item 3512 is ALSO a bruiser. Its a tankier bruiser, but it is in fact a bruiser.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 29, 20171 votes

lol really ? maokai with all of his cc and shit for damage scaling is a bruiser and not a tank

when he was the tank update along with sej and zac?

galio is a tank

dude really?

RalanrMay 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

No? the only melees with %HP damage are bruisers.

Actually that's more common in tanks.

EcchiOtakuTMMay 28, 20172 votes

Nunu isn't a tank, he lacks the hard CC and in-kit survivability to actually be one. While the term warden does fit him, he will NEVER be a tank.

Mundo isn't a tank either, as like nunu he lacks the hard CC to be one, and he shouldn't even be a juggernaut since unless the rest he has a prety reliable and powerful long range poke tool. And a strong mobility skill, which juggernauts rarely have, and if they do have it's one or the other. But sadly the term bruiser/fighter won't be a thing so they're shoving him into a "close"ly named role.

Rengar is a diver though, his kit could never function as an assassin since: #1 he has no way to outplay pre nor post rework (CC immunity isn't an outplay it's more bruiser-ish of a way to counter your foe you hard engage on ex. olaf), his Q isn't proper for an assassin and neither was his old Q since assassins shouldn't be using AS(sustained dps).

And I'm not going by what riot says currently, but by how the roles go if that makes sense.

They themselves aren't perfect at class naming(hence why some who are wardens don't fit as "Tanks" even though warden is a subclass of tank)

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 28, 20171 votes

nunu is a tank...

mundo is a tank

rengar is an assassin or was suppose to be til the neutered the kitty

EcchiOtakuTMMay 28, 20172 votes

Nunu and mundo will NEVER be tanks. They are both bruisers, nothing else even remotely fits them except warden for nunu.

Rengar before the rework was closer to an assassin, but he still contained something that shouldn't be synergetic with an assassin(sustained dps via free AS on Q). They should've just openly went the diver route with rengar, cause his kit will never function as a real assassin since he'll never have an escape and still has too much sustained dps in an extended trade(now thanks to free AD, srsly wonder why riot decided to give him boring free stats instead of a different more fun route.)

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 28, 20171 votes

there is no such thing as a bruiser

EcchiOtakuTMMay 28, 20171 votes

There is unless you're new to the game. Bruiser was renamed to fighter, for reasons still unknown when bruiser sounded cooler.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 28, 20171 votes

bruiser was a name used by players not officially by rito

ParoeMay 28, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pPXIG7dc,comment-id=0001000000000000000000010000000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-28T23:45:09.012+0000)

bruiser was a name used by players not officially by rito

Youre right. Listen up chico, heres the types of fighters;

Classic fighter. Emphasis AD/health.
Diver. Emphasis AD/Armor and has an assassination pattern.
Bruiser. Emphasis on health/AD and has high base damage.
Juggernaut. Combination Bruiser and fighter. Lacks mobility outside of MS buffs. Heavy emphasis on health, lesser emphasis on AD/resistance.

Juggernauts are... i guess you could call them a "tier two" of the fighter class. They combine a bruiser and a classic fighter to create something that has different strengths than either class but is similar to both.

EcchiOtakuTMMay 29, 20172 votes

Incorrect to memory, Bruisers and fighters are the same thing just renamed.

Although going off that, vlad, rumble, and few other tanky damage mages shouldn't be a bruiser/fighter anymore. Which I agree with, and I THINK riot did too since battle mages are a thing now if I remember.

And juggernaut you forgot to include should lack a reliable ranged poke tool and hard CC, which is why mundo/nunu/skarner should not suggested for juggernauts.