PSA: Diminishing Returns and Effective Health

TehNACHO··7 votes·901 views

When you buy armor, you are reducing the amount of damage done onto you by a percentage amount. For example, when you buy 100 armor, you are effectively reducing the enemy's physical damage onto you by 50%. If you buy 200 armor however, you are reducing their damage by 66.6%.

"Hey, the first 100 armor I bought reduced a whole 50%, and the second only reduced 16.6%, is that a diminishing return?"

No. Well, if you want to be extremely technical, the reduction is diminishing, but its effects are linear.

"What"

Okay imagine you have 2000 HP and 0 Armor. Obviously, it would take a whole 2000 Physical Damage to kill you, right? Now imagine you have 2000 HP and 100 Armor. With that 50% reduction, you are now looking at tanking a whole 4000 Physical Damage before it actually kills you. Add another 100 Armor, and you are tanking 6000 Physical Damage before it kills you. In this hypothetical scenario, for every 100 Armor, you effectively gain an extra 2000 HP. This is Effective Health, the multiplication of your Armor and your Health.

There's less of a confusion if instead of looking at Armor as a Damage Reduction, it's a Health Multiplier. Instead of the reduction explanation I started with in the beginning of this post, think of Armor like this: Every point of armor is worth a bonus 1% of your HP. If you have 0 Armor, you have no bonus. If you have 100 Armor, that's +100% Health right there, effectively doubling the worth of your HP. If you have 200 Armor, that's +200% Health or 300% Health in total, tripling your HP's value. Try to keep this explanation in mind the next time somebody mistakenly thinks that stacking Armor has diminishing returns.

Note: While Armor does not have diminishing returns, please build health with your armor too guys.

7 Comments

Reikken2 votes

You'll have to make a daily PSA to get it out to everyone who frequents the boards

Anyway, the reason it's good to build armor AND health is not because of any diminishing returns (which do not exist. Health and armor both have the same curve on returns) but because each point of health makes armor more valuable and vice versa.

asamu1 votes

It does have diminishing returns. Each subsequent point of armor that you purchase has a lower % of current EHP than the previous. IE: going from 0 armor to 1 armor is a 1% increase to ehp (Assuming no armor pen), and going from 100 armor to 101 armor is a 0.5% increase to EHP. Granted, this applies to everything (albeit to different extremes), so it's pretty much irrelevant.

The reduction in relative value is more extreme than it is for damage as well, because the numerical values for damage are so much lower, and you have multiple % scaling increases (AS, Crit, Crit damage, Armor reduction, % Armor pen, and flat armor pen), while defense only has 3 (armor, AS reduction, which is limited to 2 items with rather severe diminishing returns, and MR), and armor/MR do not influence each other at all.

AP has % pen, flat pen, Deathcap, and items with effects that have AP scaling effects (Ludens, Lichebane, the Hextech items), so ends up with a fairly similar amount of multipliers to AD, and, since it's increasing raw burst/ability damage, different characters have different amounts of AP scaling, and for characters that can chain multiple instant/near instant damage effects together, AP often allows a player to kill other players at little or no risk in an exceptionally short period of time.

Additionally, a 1% increase in damage is more valuable than a 1% increase in EHP anyway, because an increase in damage also increases your team's ability to take turrets and, if your team has decent focus fire in fights, has a greater impact on the fight due to the ability to kill a particular target faster.

That said, a mix of flat damage and health/defense tends to be more valuable than pure damage/AP in the mid game, because the defensive items are generally more efficient as singular items to compensate for their weaker late game scaling, and characters that are able to build defenses early tend to have very high natural damage output and good base stats, which reduces their need to build damage early on to have kill potential (Hence why whenever they slightly over-tune defensive items, the tank meta resurfaces, due to the ability to end the game relatively quickly by dominating the early-mid game and snowball the team's damage).

TehNACHO1 votes

That is a terrible ass example because you are not looking at the actual EHP values.

Okay imagine you have 2000 HP and 0 Armor. Obviously, it would take a whole 2000 Physical Damage to kill you, right? Now imagine you have 2000 HP and 100 Armor. With that 50% reduction, you are now looking at tanking a whole 4000 Physical Damage before it actually kills you. Add another 100 Armor, and you are tanking 6000 Physical Damage before it kills you. In this hypothetical scenario, for every 100 Armor, you effectively gain an extra 2000 HP. This is Effective Health, the multiplication of your Armor and your Health.

Or if you want to go for something smaller:

Every point of armor is worth a bonus 1% of your HP.

Because that is what Armor interacts with, Regular HP. It's that interaction that makes Effective Health Relevant, multiplying your armor values against EHP isn't even backwards, it doesn't make sense.

asamu1 votes

I'm not saying that you're wrong about how armor works. I'm just pointing out that the relative value of armor/MR decreases, which is effectively the same as them having diminishing returns, and, when compared to damage/AP, which have numerous multipliers (such as penetration), the relative value of armor/MR is reduced even further relative to other stats in the later stages of the game.

you are not looking at the actual EHP values.

That's exactly what I did; I'm just looking at it in the relative sense rather than looking at flat values. Assuming you have 1000 HP, a change in armor from 0 to 1 increases your EHP to 1010, while an increase from 100 to 101 increases your EHP from 2000 to 2010; it's still a flat change of 10, but the relative change to EHP is significantly reduced, which means the relative value of that point of armor, when compared to any other stat, has gone down. That's not technically diminishing returns, but it has the same effect of reducing the relative value of the armor. It's neither backwards to do this nor does it not make sense, as it's how you calculate for maximum effective HP with the least investment.

Too Ton1 votes

Too much armor pen (50%?) so isn't it better to just build hp and let armor and mr come naturally?

asamu1 votes

No, due to the relative changes to increases in EHP (IE: 150 flat health is a larger % increase to HP when you have less HP, so if you already have a lot of HP, getting a % increase from armor or MR is more valuable), it's still generally better to get a good mix of HP and resistances, despite penetration cutting the value of resistances by so much.

Selegun1 votes

Any chance you could take the time to explain how healing factors into this theory? All to often I see this topic pop up with little to no mention of how being able to generate HP should factor into the math provided. I feel understanding this piece of theory would help some of the players that see Marksman with lifesteal become unkillable as the game goes on.

More from Gameplay

More by TehNACHO