Sure, it's total cancer that he solos Dragon at 5 minutes and can duo Baron at 20 minutes, but it's an example of a champion that is unique.
"Mordekaiser now has a pet DRAGON! YEAH!!!!"
"Skarner places crystals that grant gold and vision, and give Skarner buffs!! YEAHH!!!!"
I'm surprised Fiora didn't teleport her ult victim to a parallel universe where they were forced to duel her.
Jesus Died 4 You20 votesI think Fiora is unique, a little fine tuning on her stats and she will be a great addition to the league. I do agree with the Mordekaiser and Skarner thing though, it's a bit overkill and tedious, especially Skarner's.
JSTIN85 votesI'll be happy with fiora when my options against her as a tank are "don't fight her". (I REALLY fucking hate her ult)
Anidan5 votesMaybe... but at this rate, people would also like for there to be zero tank-busters, period.
Fiora seems great to me after some fine-tuning as well.
JSTIN84 votesI am fine with tank busters. If i get melted in 6 seconds by a fully slotted twitch or kog, then I have no problems with the champs. They have glaring weaknesses, and there are items I can get to mitigate it. I may not be as durable because of their existence, but I sure as hell dont get most of my hp shaved off in %true damage and watch as the enemy team heals through whatever damage i dealt. Jax is a tank buster, yi is a tank buster, ww, trynd, trist. All of those champs are good at tearing apart tanks should they choose to do so. But as a tank I can still fight and cc every one of them, and while I may not be able to duel them, I don't have to turn tail because they pressed R. That is my problem with fiora. The very moment she finds her R key, everything goes straight to hell.
Dar Raksada3 votesEven with her R she'll take her time busting through a 
providing it's tank malphite (not ap malphite). Unless she's fed and went glass cannon in which case you might be able to kill her/more champions would do the same.
What are your feelings on vayne?
Saminus Maximus3 votesFiora can do 90% max hp true damage with three items by proccing passive once and then ulting. She can go tanky after that and still melt tanks.
Dar Raksada1 votes[{quoted}](name=Saminus Maximus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pL9IoiA8,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-28T13:40:07.830+0000)
Fiora can do 90% max hp true damage with three items by proccing passive once and then ulting. She can go tanky after that and still melt tanks.
Which three items would that be? I'm not calling you a liar, I just haven't ever seen her do that much damage with just three items.
Of course, you can just qss her ult and laugh at her pathetic attempts to scratch you.
Saminus Maximus6 votesFiora has 120 base ad at level 18
Give her 354
Her passive does 3% (+「4.5% 」per 100 bonus AD) at level 18 Thats 19% max hp damage per proc One passive proc + 4 ult procs = 95%
That's not even including runes and masteries, its closer to 100% of you include them. P.s. all decimals have been rounded up or down as appropriate.
Edit i did the math with normal ad runes and masteries its actually 105% max hp true damage with 5 hits 42% of which happens near instantly by procing passive with q poping ult and then autoing the same spot.
Dar Raksada4 votes[{quoted}](name=Saminus Maximus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pL9IoiA8,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-28T15:14:21.767+0000)
Fiora has 120 base ad at level 18
Her passive does 3% (+「4.5% 」per 100 bonus AD) at level 18 Thats 19% max hp damage per proc One passive proc + 4 ult procs = 95%
That's not even including runes and masteries, its closer to 100% of you include them. P.s. all decimals have been rounded up or down as appropriate.
Edit i did the math with normal ad runes and masteries its actually 105% max hp true damage with 5 hits 42% of which happens near instantly by procing passive with q poping ult and then autoing the same spot.
Ok, so if she's relatively fed, built full glass cannon at lvl 18, you refuse to buy qss to completely negate her ult and she hits 5 vitals she can shred tanks pretty hard.
Saminus Maximus4 votesOk, so if she's relatively fed
How so? Even with no kills or assists her getting three items is perfectly reasonable just through cs by late game. And that's a very unlikely situation since she has a strong early to mid game anyway.
built full glass cannon at lvl 18
How do you know she didnt buy randuins and say spirit visage alongside those items?
you refuse to buy qss to completely negate her ult
A- Building qss on a tank is not a good idea. B- Her passive identifies vitals 0.5 seconds after she pops one, she can still burn you down in a matter of seconds she just wont heal afterwards.
she hits 5 vitals
She doesnt need to hit them all, even 2-3 can cripple a tank in a teamfight.
Dar Raksada1 votes[{quoted}](name=Saminus Maximus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pL9IoiA8,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-28T16:24:21.910+0000)
How so? Even with no kills or assists her getting three items is perfectly reasonable just through cs by late game. And that's a very unlikely situation since she has a strong early to mid game anyway.
How do you know she didnt buy randuins and say spirit visage alongside those items?
I was assuming it was around midgame, which is my fault I suppose. In endgame a carry is supposed to melt a tank, Fiora is (or was) a melee carry
A- Building qss on a tank is not a good idea. It might not normally be, but there is this concept called counterbuilding B- Her passive identifies vitals 0.5 seconds after she pops one, she can still burn you down in a matter of seconds she just wont heal afterwards.
The vitals will never spawn in the same spot if she pops one, she'd need to be running circles around you to pop more. If you manage to have a vital pointed to a wall she can't ever hit it (if you hug the wall). Fiora is countered by proper positioning.
She doesnt need to hit them all, even 2-3 can cripple a tank in a teamfight.
A tank should be fine, albeit damaged if she hits two, otherwise fiora would be useless. If she hits 3 you're doing something wrong (getting caught out, not working with your team, blowing everything on her parry) or she is doing something right (getting so fed she can shrug off your team, parrying properly). Play against her like you'd play against a master yi, cc & burst kill her (yes, she can parry, but it only lasts for .75sec and she is stunned while parrying). The advantage you have against fiora is that you know exactly where she wants to be (your vitals.)
Now I'm not saying you can't dislike her, I dislike yasuo, zed and katarine whether they're op or not.
Saminus Maximus1 votesI was assuming it was around midgame, which is my fault I suppose. In endgame a carry is supposed to melt a tank, Fiora is (or was) a melee carry
The main problem i have with her is that after those three items she doesnt need anymore damage, she can just go off tank. Bursting her is very hard if she gets some defense and uses her w well and fighting her in a sustained fight will melt you. It doesnt help that if she ults someone and they die her entire team gets healed to full health midway through a fight.
The vitals will never spawn in the same spot if she pops one, she'd need to be running circles around you to pop more. If you manage to have a vital pointed to a wall she can't ever hit it (if you hug the wall). Fiora is countered by proper positioning.
50% movespeed buff on hitting a vital or till ult runs out if she has you ulted + 2 sec cd on her q with 40% cdr (Which is possible if you go scaling cd blues, spirit visage and cdr boots.) Unless you're playing someone like riven or yasuo out positioning her is near impossible.
Play against her like you'd play against a master yi, cc & burst kill her (yes, she can parry, but it only lasts for .75sec and she is stunned while parrying). The advantage you have against fiora is that you know exactly where she wants to be (your vitals.)
Most cc has travel time, unless you're playing annie and can instant stun you she can parry it, combined with the fact that if she's can just wait for a fight to start instead of diving head first into your team 1v5 and still be just as effective at bursting tanks. Also her vitals arent as much of a positioning weakness as say dravens axe's. If draven drops an axe he's got no damage, if he gets cc'd while catching an axe he's dead. If fiora doesn't proc passive she still has her ult for at least one free proc and deals respectable damage with her q and guaranteed e crit, if someone tries to cc her while she's going for a proc she can parry and now her target is stunned and she can proc her passive easy as pie.
Now I'm not saying you can't dislike her, I dislike yasuo, zed and katarine whether they're op or not.
Fair enough, i dont think she's op i just think her power should be shifted away from her passive. 100% max hp true damage is ridiculous no matter how you phrase it.
Personally i dont mind zed or katarina, they both have their counters, counterplay, and counterbuilds. Yasuo's windwall gives me cancer if im playing anyone with projectiles. My pet hates are fizz and rengar.
Dar Raksada1 votes[{quoted}](name=Saminus Maximus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pL9IoiA8,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-29T13:36:20.573+0000)
The main problem i have with her is that after those three items she doesnt need anymore damage, she can just go off tank. Bursting her is very hard if she gets some defense and uses her w well and fighting her in a sustained fight will melt you. It doesnt help that if she ults someone and they die her entire team gets healed to full health midway through a fight.
50% movespeed buff on hitting a vital or till ult runs out if she has you ulted + 2 sec cd on her q with 40% cdr (Which is possible if you go scaling cd blues, spirit visage and cdr boots.) Unless you're playing someone like riven or yasuo out positioning her is near impossible.
Most cc has travel time, unless you're playing annie and can instant stun you she can parry it, combined with the fact that if she's can just wait for a fight to start instead of diving head first into your team 1v5 and still be just as effective at bursting tanks. Also her vitals arent as much of a positioning weakness as say dravens axe's. If draven drops an axe he's got no damage, if he gets cc'd while catching an axe he's dead. If fiora doesn't proc passive she still has her ult for at least one free proc and deals respectable damage with her q and guaranteed e crit, if someone tries to cc her while she's going for a proc she can parry and now her target is stunned and she can proc her passive easy as pie.
Fair enough, i dont think she's op i just think her power should be shifted away from her passive. 100% max hp true damage is ridiculous no matter how you phrase it.
Personally i dont mind zed or katarina, they both have their counters, counterplay, and counterbuilds. Yasuo's windwall gives me cancer if im playing anyone with projectiles. My pet hates are fizz and rengar.
let's agree to disagree then:)
Chaotic Reks9 votesWhat are your feelings on vayne?
JSTIN82 votesAs a general rule of thumb, %true damage on any kit is not something I enjoy. However, I would be ok with her if it was not for the 2 second tumble combined with one of the biggest ball of stats ults in league. Seriously, it makes Nasus ult seem petty in comparison.
OyddAWqJ5r5 votesLmao it's entirely outplayable. Fiora has the best visible counterplay in the game. Don't let her hit the mark. Boom, countered. No items, no stat checks, just pure play and counterplay (though atm she is still kinda stat checking people without the mark).
Kitten of Evil3 votesSo don't get near her for 15 seconds in lane and hope that when it resets it won't still be facing her (it only switches away if she activates it -- otherwise it randomly spawns, so it could be on the same side). Got it.
Or I guess you could let her hit your Vitals and then play aggressive until her passive comes up again. Wait, it has a 0.5 second cooldown.
OyddAWqJ5r4 votesI never said run away and cower in fear of your inability to outplay your opponent's "Don't let them hit you on that side" minigame. If tests of player vs player skill really counters you that hard then by all means farm under turret.
Baron of Bread2 votesYeah, items and stats aren't such a big deal when she fights you. Your kit though, that makes a big difference. Do you have lots of CC or lots of mobility? Then you can outplay her. Don't have much of either? Prepare to feed.
Lintu Puck2 votes
maybe 
shrugs
and with all of that, just don't approach her when the passive ring points to her, keep moving, and don't let her slap the marker
OyddAWqJ5r1 votesGiven the Dragon is literally impossible to control... ugh. Same for all his ghosts now. The old ult ghosts were way more responsive and reliable.
just a memory15 votesI'm not exactly sure what the point of this thread is...
Anidan6 votesMy guess is... I dunno, honestly. Fiora is actually pretty unique now, so I don't understand the complaint. If Nunu is allowed to be cancer because he's unique then that argument must then extend to literally everyone else or else you can't use the argument to justify his design.
Fiora sucks right now to play against because she could use some tuning down, but otherwise she's pretty well done.
OyddAWqJ5r1 votesExactly, Fiora isn't OP because her mark is too powerful, she's OP because right now her base stats are allowing her to beat people without even touching the mark (exaggeration ofc). The mark is the most balanced thing about her. 100% counterplayable damage.
bad manner kid1 votesI'm not exactly sure what the point of this thread is...
Riot's justification for creating these weird redesigns was "we want champions to feel unique."
Instead, they created a bunch of gimmick things that both teams have to deal with. (Crystals, Villain, Morde's Dragon.) Darius simply was made even more of a lane bully, and Fiora has a cool kit but is overtuned.
The point of the thread was to say "if you want a unique champion, it's niche and actually unique." You can't just come up with a stupid thing that players are forced to deal with and call it unique.
Meanwhile every other new champion is just an upgraded version of another champions kit overloaded with passives and mobility.
DarkLiquidDeath5 votesThe point of the thread is that Riot is adding artificial uniqueness to updated champions that don't actually add to the depth of the game, unlike champions like Nunu that are unique for what they organically bring to the game. For example, Skarner's shrines are not a unique part of a the champion, but a gimmick added to make Skarner seem different. Singed is an example of a unique champion that is special because of his theme and strengths within his kit, not a silly minigame that adds little-to-no depth to the game like Fiora's passive and ult.
I think the best way to explain the concept of artificial uniqueness is to use Lissandra's passive. Her passive provides a free spell every 18(?) seconds which seems like a clear strength, but Riot decided to increase her mana costs when they designed her to force her to use the passive. The passive therefore nerfs her entire kit just to make her seem more unique. Skarner suffers from the same thing, where shrines were added to compensate for power they removed from him because they wanted him to seem new and unique.
Bard is another example of artificial uniqueness that Riot seems to favour now. While the meeps are a good addition to his kit and provide a useful power window, his interaction with chimes is only a way to force Bard players to roam instead of relying on their own skill as a player to find opportunities to roam. Bard then suffers from this passive with higher mana costs because he won't be in lane to use his abilities as often.
Champions should not need a map-affecting gimmick to be unique. Riot has proven they can make well designed unique champions with characters such as 
Newer champions like 
and his dragon buddy are good examples of inorganic characters with forced "power windows" that do not encourage skilled play, desicion making, or consistency.
I think that's what the creator of the thread is trying to say.
TL:DR: Riot is focusing on making champs with memorable abilities that add no skill or depth to the game instead of following some of their older design philosophies to make organically unique champions. Note that many of their old designs are also toxic (Vlad, Blitz, etc) but Riot has done very well in the past, especially around S2.
ninjaIRL 1 votesThey're simply trying out new mechanics and ways of interacting within League. If they kept making and reworking champion with traditional abilities, as amazing that would be to me, it would really do no better in increasing the diversity of gameplay and impact in games. League will get so stale and boring if it keeps following the same traditional ability sets.
Riot is trying to enforce new identities to champions like Skarner and Garen to make them stand out to the rest. Mordekaiser gaining the ability to control dragon is another effort in enforcing new identities. Darius has basically been the same identity of eliminating everyone around him.
junglerboy165 votesSome of the most unique champs in the game are considered old and or outdated, just look at 
(Terrain, actual ability combos) 
(one of the most distinct pick abilities in the game) (thematically rock solid kit, unique ability combination) 
(original infinite stacking) 
(original vision control champ) 
(stated above, duh.) 
(the one and only thorn mail champ) 
(poison trail. nuff said.) 
(only champ without an ultimate) 
(only champ who deals damage based on enemy AP)
brad4 votes[{quoted}](name=All Chat Referee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pL9IoiA8,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-09-28T03:04:05.535+0000)
I'm surprised Fiora didn't teleport her ult victim to a parallel universe where they were forced to duel her.
that would be fucking intense
someone's ult takes you and the person you target to somewhere outside the map where you duke it out true 1v1 style
Abyssphere1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hi lm Brad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pL9IoiA8,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-09-28T08:27:23.994+0000)
that would be fucking intense
someone's ult takes you and the person you target to somewhere outside the map where you duke it out true 1v1 style
It'd be intense until you realise about 50% of the time the amazing 1v1 duel ends in 0.5 seconds as Fiora kills her no doubt massively outmatched opponent.
Imagine her ulting poor Soraka or something. It'd be the biggest anticlimax ever.
shadowhunter44441 votesAND THEN ADC SORAKA WHOOPS HER ASS jk, I get what you're saying
Ravenstiker1 votesAND THEN ADC SORAKA WHOOPS HER ASS jk, I get what you're saying
Bananas are Powerful too you know
Ravenstiker1 votesIt'd be intense until you realise about 50% of the time the amazing 1v1 duel ends in 0.5 seconds as Fiora kills her no doubt massively outmatched opponent.
Imagine her ulting poor Soraka or something. It'd be the biggest anticlimax ever.
Imagine Fiora Ulting a Farming Nasus and he is like WHY DID YOU STOP MY FARMING! and oneshots her
Anidan1 votesFiora with Legion Commander ulti from DotA2.
That really would be intense.
Cowgirl Ed3 votesLOOL NOW I WANT TO DUEL FIORA IN A PARALLEL WORLD PLS (and get rekt by her true vayne dmg)
alfavhunter3 votesFiora ult should lose all damage and do this instead
Breaking a vital from her ult now resets the Cd of her parry and if she successfully parries an attack from her ulted target the CD on Q is reset
This makes her ult actually feel like a duel with parry , strike, parry , strike, tones down her ubsurd %max hp true damage (still has some in her passive) and gives her the team fight power of being able to constantly parry damage and CC (balanced in the fact that parry stops her attacks and doesn't do to much damage itself)
This change to her ult would make her much healthier for the game because she can no longer 100-0 TANKS in 3 seconds if the tank has built to survive her, and her damage vs squishes will remain the same
The ult would still have the heal to it (toned down a little) and she would gain a good bit of team fight utility that takes skill to pull off right from her parry being useable 5 times (normal parry +4 vitals) in quick succession
Sure she will still be. A pain to deal with, but tanks will be meaningful vs her and its skill based for CCing her when she isn't parrying
ninjaIRL 1 votesThat might actually be an ingenious idea. She'd essentially be the hardest champion to play in League of Legends though.
LaserDeathBlade2 votesThat champ is just cancer period, I'd rather champs be generic than be Nunu/Poppy/Tryndaqueer/whatever
The Bíg Ticket2 votesWarwick can solo baron at level 12 :)
Teridax682 votes[{quoted}](name=All Chat Referee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pL9IoiA8,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-09-28T03:04:05.535+0000)
I'm surprised Fiora didn't teleport her ult victim to a parallel universe where they were forced to duel her.
That is the exact ult I had for an 
rework concept on the LoL wiki. 0_o
I don't know whether that's a good or a bad thing now.
Silver Fluffenbu1 votesKaiba mad
Craft Zeppelin1 votesBut the thing is nunu players are master of mind games and strategy, you are basically the devil himself if you can win consistanty with him
TaoistMaster1 votes and 
When I first started playing I thought they were the same champion. For a long time.
I was like oh.. plant girl like poison ivy from batman.
then one day i realized they were different.. and thought why would riot feel they needed two plant girls like poison ivy from batman?
I say this..
but at the same time. I wish the League had another pirate ;)
Seekêr1 votesYea, I like fiora. I think her numbers are too forgiving. But on the pbe, before she was op, you found yourself running around to get to weak points and truly blade dancing around the battlefield. It felt unique, and fun, and was thematically awesome. It is just that she 3 shots people so she doesnt really do that right now. They should tune her passive up and nerf the rest of her abilities to give that feeling again :C. Maybe make the weak points appear further from her so she has to time it right or she will be punished hard. Her trades should rely more on whether or not she can proc weak points, not based on her E out trading everyone.
TehNACHO1 votes[{quoted}](name=All Chat Referee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pL9IoiA8,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-09-28T03:04:05.535+0000)
I'm surprised Fiora didn't teleport her ult victim to a parallel universe where they were forced to duel her.
Lol.
I just remembered some reds responding to a Shen thread about this very mechanic.
That or it was a Poppy thread.
Yodzeity1 votesWe need to turn Fiora into Legion Commander
TotalJerk1 votesNunu is what you get when you throw random abilities into a hat and pull out 4.
Karn Bishop1 votesNunu is unique but he is not well designed, heck his kit is not even meant to win matches just frustrate your opponent until they rage quit or lose their cool.
I would use nunu as a prime example of a badly designed kit where as skarners and fiora are fine though fiora still needs some small number adjustments.
Mord they probably did fail on, but the dragon was not one of those failures rather one of the successes.
Baron Perenolde1 votes[{quoted}](name=All Chat Referee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pL9IoiA8,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-09-28T03:04:05.535+0000)
I'm surprised Fiora didn't teleport her ult victim to a parallel universe where they were forced to duel her.
That reminds me of that one WC3 mod Anime Fight. You'd skirmish on the map for a while, then every so often both teams would be ported to a small arena for a big teamfight. Good times...
Von Revanchist1 votesOMG that fiora ult suggestion is amazing. Imagine she ults a character and forces them into a zone. Those two characters disappear from the map and the land shifts around them into something crazy and they have to 1v1 for a time before they phase back into the rift.
