One or the other. It is NOT okay that you have mages that would require spell vamp to have any sustain. Riot stop messing with the game. Stop changing it. Every time you do, you make it worse.
Narvuntien2 votesThey are fundamentally different.
Since life steal is off auto attacks and auto attacks occur at a regular rate you can easily gauge just how much your opponent is going to heal.
Spell vamp occurs in huge bursts that means you are fighting someone and suddenly the health is switched its not consistent and easy to account for.
The only way you could make it work would be similar to what they did with Swain Ulti where the heal is separate from the damage of the spell. you would have to have an item.. that when you cast a spell you heal X.
Aptest2 votesits less about the rhythm of when it happens and more about mages having stronger range and longer periods between dealing damage.
the commitment and therefore risk that a mage takes to do damage is much less than a raged carry. A ranged carry not only has to attack once, but must stay attacking for a prolonged period. Whereas a mage can drop his load from range and back off 4-6 seconds.
for instance most gap closers are well within an ADC's range, so a fizz can definitely engage on a tristana trying to lifesteal from him.
Can't do that with a lux using spellvamp.
Plasma Servant2 votesso when kat comes in, gets a kill, resets her skills ... doesn't fit
Akali the same .. with build in regen.
and AD's that have huge burst ... varus Q from so far away you can't even see him
that's the problem. AD's have it all. Burst and sustain.
Aptest2 votesmake a distinction:
ADC's are the single most voulnerable class in the game they die in 3 seconds to every other class if they even consider farming a pushed side lane. They have everything exempt the ability to survive on their own.
OTOH we have Zed and Talon that can just go on whomever tries to stop them or disengage no problem; And they have items like "death's dance" that work with their abilities wtf?
Anyway i think I would very much like to see this game without vamp scepter and without all the items that are built from it. @meddler can we see this in a limited game mode please?
ZT Xperimentor1 votesMarksmen are fragile?
Yeah sure they're weak to those mages.
Ralanr1 votesMaw and Steraks don't stack anymore.
ZT Xperimentor1 votesDoesn't negate the fact marksmen have more options and benefits than mages.
Plasma Servant2 votesExactly!
Plasma Servant2 votesSo you think ekko should be nerfed?
Sightless661 votesThat was quite a non sequitur. How did you get to that conclusion?
Narvuntien2 votes[{quoted}](name=Plasma Servant,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pIRtTIUP,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-06-11T16:46:03.183+0000)
So you think ekko should be nerfed?
Yes... but you know that is coming, since you can see the trail so you know that you have a lot more damage you have to do.
I think % hp should be removed because it allows him to beat up on bruisers without needing AP.
Quepha2 votesWhat if we just let AP and AD builds be different from each other?
Plasma Servant2 votesI don't mind them different, but they should not favor ... ever... one over the other at any point in the game
Quepha3 votes[{quoted}](name=Plasma Servant,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pIRtTIUP,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-06-11T16:44:44.566+0000)
I don't mind them different, but they should not favor ... ever... one over the other at any point in the game
They don't.
Plasma Servant2 votesAD has had the advantage over dot mages forever. There are plenty of mages that have no burst, but taking away the spell vamp just makes them underpowered like crazy. Change should never be piecemeal ... and it really doesn't need to happen. If it isn't broke, don't fix it. I'd say assassins are broke ... both ad and ap (why else is zed banned so often). Assassins need to just be totally nerfed in damage ... so they can have reasonable sustain and not be broken.
Quepha2 votes[{quoted}](name=Plasma Servant,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pIRtTIUP,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-11T20:33:30.744+0000)
taking away the spell vamp just makes them underpowered like crazy.
NONE of them built it, except for Vladimir. Literally zero mages built spell vamp if they were playing seriously, aside from Vladimir.
Removing something that NO ONE BUILT is the same as not removing it at all, because spell vamp was already dead for years.
And calling them underpowered is just wrong. A ton of mages do well in solo queue and a ton of mages are picked in pro games. They don't care that they don't have spell vamp because they can survive without it.
Plasma Servant1 votesI don't know about you, but I've put s.v. on many non-burst mages. Amumu I've used it on forever. With his w, if he had RCS, Laindry's and and then build s.v. he had sustain and huge damage (dot, aoe). He could build the s.v. as a means of early game sustain (the revolver was cheap for what it provided). Now you have to have the gunblade to get any sustain. Just because some people didn't do it, doesn't mean it wasn't effective.
Sightless662 votesbut I've put s.v. on many non-burst mages.
It was extremely inefficient. I get that you may have liked to do that, and I'm sorry you lost an item you found fun, but spellvamp was absolutely less effective than the alternatives in every situation.
just because some people didn't do it,
It was every single high level player avoiding spellvamp on every champion that wasn't Vlad or Akali. Wota was one of the least-purchased items in the game. Back when the AP jungle item (Spirit of the Spectral Wraith) gave spellvamp, the best option for a jungler was actually to skip it because that's how little spellvamp was worth. This is not something you can write off as being just a few people not liking the stat. It was legitimately bad.
If you argued that you thought the stat was fun, I'd be totally on board, but from a simple power perspective it really was a "vlad only" stat.
Sightless664 votesThey don't. AP builds don't have access to sustain, but they do have much more access to raw health and resistances as early parts of a core build. That's an option that squishy AD champions don't have to nearly the same degree. They also have access to items with different utility and actives that AD champions don't have parallels to.
Sustain is just one dimension of the item system. Using it as the sole basis to claim favor for AD over AP isn't valid.
Gibberwatt1 votesThis is true. Also, it might just be me, but ad champs seem to have to be in closer range for longer to kill someone, while a mage just kind of runs **near **them, qwe at them, and runs away. rinse, repeat. What I'm trying to say is that AD champs generally put themselves in a lot more danger than ap champs, and thus need some way to keep their health bar from dissapearing
Plasma Servant1 votessquishy ad champions ... like Wukong, Darius, Aatrox, Gangplank, Garen, Graves, Illaoi, Irellia, Jarvan, Jax ... they aren't squishy ... oh, and Nasus. They are all so squishy and need life steal to allow them to survive. NOT.
Sightless661 votesIllaoi, Irellia, Wukong, Darius, Jarvan, Nasus and Garen do not commonly buy lifesteal. The stat is inefficient for them, and it's no better for them than Wota was for most mages. Gangplank barely has access to it either with the recent changes to his items. The only sustain they have access to in most games is the sustain from their kits, which is a perfectly acceptable place to have it, just like some mages and AP bruisers (Vlad, Morg, Swain, etc) get sustain on their kits.
The only champions you cited that this complaint is valid for are Graves and Jax and Aatrox. One lifesteal bruiser that sucks, one melee carry, and one bruiser-like ADC. Forgive me if two bruisers getting to violate the normal rule doesn't concern me much. It concerns me no more than Akali getting to still buy spellvamp does.
Plasma Servant1 votesOkay, nobody should down vote something without leaving a comment.
venomous frost1 votesand how many champions built spell vamp? that's right, only 
BurakkuHishou2 votesi built it sometimes on ahri, more spellvamp :)
Plasma Servant2 votesAmumu, Brand, fiddlesticks, Karma, Lulu, Lux, Malzahar, Morgana (add to her already built in spell vamp), ryze, ziggs, and yes, vlad. I've built s.v. on all of those when it was available. So if the complaint is that vlad is OP like crazy with s.v., then nerf it on him instead of shotgun blast everyone.
Plasma Servant1 votesSpell vamp on Malz ... M.V. and it heals all the time it is eating creeps. Yeah, nobody uses it except vlad....
venomous frost1 votesok lemme rephrase, "who built spellvamp on anybody but vladimir above silver ELO in ranked?"
might aswell bring back sword of the divine because i built it on maokai once...
Plasma Servant1 votesBetter question is who cares anything about ranked? Take your insecure players that need ranked play to make them feel valid, and keep them.
420 grams1 votesGun blade
Plasma Servant1 votesand how much does v.s. cost for the first ls item
420 grams1 votes1050?
Plasma Servant1 votes900 ... the gunblade does no good for an ap caster until it is complete in terms of healing (unless you count basic attacks that do next to no damage, and so no heal) 3800? Totally out of range for most non-burst ap mages. The removal of spell vamp items was just wrong. If the vampire became too strong, nerf the vampire, not all the ap champions by removing spell vamp.
seodoori1 votes[deleted]
Plasma Servant1 votesAh, name calling instead of addressing the issue. It isn't being stupid, and the "spell vamp" is not based off of damage, but off of mana expended ... and capped at 25. Two auto attacks by Wukong and he gets more l.s. heal than that with a moderate build.
Plasma Servant1 votesOh, and BTW, ROA is generally a much more effective item ... and has the same burn your mana to get minimal health back.