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Why do AD champions get so many nice defensive itemization options?

Ahri Body Pillow··10 votes·1,896 views

AD Defensive items -Death's Dance -Bloodthirster -Phantom Dancer -Guardian Angel -Maw of Malmortius (And Hexdrinker) -Mercurial Scmitar -Edge of Night

AP Champion Defensive Items -Zhonya's Hourglass -Banshee's Veil -Seraph's Embrace

Seriously, why are AP champions allowed to be countered so easily? For AD champions you can build defensively against AP threats while also getting damage. If you're Xerath and the enemy Draven is fed, you better fucking hope that 50 armor from hourglass will save you. Otherwise, you're gonna have to blow an entire item slot for a defensive item that gives you no offensive stats (Randuins/Frozenheart/ etc.).

Oh, what's that? The enemy Lux is giving you issues? Don't you worry your pretty little head, my sweet AD summer child. Build Mercurial, Death's Dance, Maw, Phantom Dancer....the possibilities are endless! The best part? You barely have to sacrifice any damage!

Can we please fix this?

23 Comments

BEK Makadur5 votes

Aren´t there just way more AD champs than AP champs? Never had a problem with a full AP team, but full AD is a thing.

Btw. not saying that AP Itemisation is perfect nor really good as it is.

5050BS4 votes

Riot likes AD champs more then AP champs.

AP has not been in a good place for 3 seasons.

JustMonika137 votes

{quoted}

AP has not been in a good place for 3 seasons.

?????????????

Sleepcoma2 votes

watch the past 2 years of lcs and tell me how many times an ad champion has been picked mid lane

xelaker4 votes

not saying that ad doesn't have more options, but ap items get lots of little stats too man. health, armor, movespeed and so on. not to mention ap champs tend to have more cc in their kit and tend to be a bit burstier

Ahri Body Pillow2 votes

AD items give health too (Steraks/Frozen Mallet/Black Cleaver). An I'm fairly certain that Zhonya's and Seeker's are the only items available on Summoner's Rift that give both ability power and armor.

I sincerely disagree with the idea that AP champions are inherently burstier. Zed, Rengar, Talon, Kai'sa Graves, Wukong...the list goes on. Most AP champions are mages that specialize in DPS and very rarely have the chance to 100-0 someone.

Ill give you Movement speed and CC, though. Howwever, QSS nullifies your CC point.

xelaker2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Body Pillow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pE4ErLE6,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-06-12T04:35:02.209+0000)

AD items give health too (Steraks/Frozen Mallet/Black Cleaver). An I'm fairly certain that Zhonya's and Seeker's are the only items available on Summoner's Rift that give both ability power and armor.

I sincerely disagree with the idea that AP champions are inherently burstier. Zed, Rengar, Talon, Kai'sa Graves, Wukong...the list goes on. Most AP champions are mages that specialize in DPS and very rarely have the chance to 100-0 someone.

Ill give you Movement speed and CC, though. Howwever, QSS nullifies your CC point.

Akali Annie Brand Diana Elise Evelynn Fizz Kassadin Katarina Lux Orianna Syndra Veigar Zoe just a hasty list of some general burst ap champs... not including some ap champs that can burst if fed or just bonking a squishy target.

item 3151 item 3027 item 3165 item 3116 health item 3100 item 3907 item 3905 movespeed item 3030 item 3146 item 3152 item 3040 item 3157 gimmicky stuffs like ad champs have lifesteal, ga, ect

both sides have stuff man...

Ahri Body Pillow1 votes

There are more AD items that give movement speed. More AD items that give health. More AD items with gimmicks. This is an argument that you simply cannot win.

VoraciousX2 votes

{quoted}

Akali Annie Brand Diana Elise Evelynn Fizz Kassadin Katarina Lux Orianna Syndra Veigar Zoe just a hasty list of some general burst ap champs... not including some ap champs that can burst if fed or just bonking a squishy target.

item 3151 item 3027 item 3165 item 3116 health item 3100 item 3907 item 3905 movespeed item 3030 item 3146 item 3152 item 3040 item 3157 gimmicky stuffs like ad champs have lifesteal, ga, ect

both sides have stuff man...

I wouldn't really consider move speed as defensive. Spellbinder and Lich bane are 100% not defensive items at all, and if you want to compare just move speed items as defensive, AP gets 24% move speed while AD gets 27% in potential options just from items most ADCs build every game, in addition to fleet. There's also Black Cleaver, Stormrazor, Yoummu's, and BORK for temporary options.

As for health, it doesn't really do much without defensive stats(MR, armor), of which AP champions only have 2 options. If I were to list an AD items list similar to yours, it'd be like this:

item 3022 item 3814 item 3053 item 3078 item 3071 item 3748 health item 3142 item 3046 item 3094 item 3085 item 3087 item 3071 item 3095 movespeed item 3156 item 3814 item 3072 item 3812 item 3146 item 3153 item 3026 item 3053 item 3142 gimmicky stuff that AD champions have.

Notice there's also quite a big overlap in stats in this case, where some AD items have at least 2 of each?

Here's the TRUE list of defensive stuff for AD and AP though(focusing on only defensive stats with damage):

Here's AD: MR: item 3139 :item 3156item 3091 item 3155 (listing partial item buys too because this matters) Armor: item 3026 item 3025 (Used Iceborn because it relies on base AD and some AD champions do use it) Health: item 3078 item 3022 item 3748 item 3053 item 3071 item 3044 item 3052 item 3814

Now here's AP MR: item 3174 (Pretty much only for supports)item 3102 (notice there are no AP partial items, although there are no AD partial items to armor while there is on AP so I guess this is sort of fair, except...) Armor: item 3191 item 3157 (Hexdrinker has a much stronger passive than seeker's) Health: item 3136 item 3165 item 3916 item 2065 item 3152 item 3116 item 3027 item 3151 (AP has 2 partial items while AD has one, and AD's partial items is 300 gold cheaper than both, while also offering more health for around the same damage value, maybe slightly less than haunting guise, meaning AD has 7 full items, with one cheap partial item, while AP has 6 full items, with 2 more expensive partial items which also have less value)

Honestly I would be totally fine with AP defensive itemization if zhonyas wasn't nerfed into the ground patch after patch a few years ago, and Banshee's and Abyssal Mask were reverted. I'd be totally fine building a full defensive banshee's because at least then I could survive hits while the passive was down. Everyone complains about damage creep, but if you look at it, defensive items(AP ones anyways) have been gutted over and over again until we're left with just damage items with minor defensive stats that don't really do anything.

TruelyTrueTrueth3 votes

I’m just surprised not more people see this

Ad itemization have been so much better than ap

rtbf2216514123 votes

And GA became AD because balance. Kappa

AirKingNeo2 votes

Because there are 3 different classes for AD champions, so of course there are more defensive items because they cover more classes. It's not like you see Jax build Bloodthirster.

Also, why is Edge of Night (AD HP) item listed for AD defensive items and none of the AP HP items?

Ahri Body Pillow1 votes

Edge of Night is listed because of it's spellshield active. I did not list items that only had health as defensive items because oftentimes the health is not what the item is purchased for. For example, Black Cleaver is bought for it's Armor Shred, not its health. Liandry's is generally purchased because of the two passives, not because of the health.

There are different classes for AP champions, too. AP Tanks such as Galio, Cho'Gath, and Singed. There are AP assassins such as LeBlanc, Fizz, and Ekko. There are AP enchanters such as Lulu, Janna, and Sona that are generally played as supports. And lastly we have mages that specialize in zone control and DPS.

Maw is good on many AD champs, are Death's Dance and Guardian Angel. There's a degree of overlap.

AirKingNeo1 votes

and every AP class needs the same AP items.

AD champions have much different functions and need different items to do them.

flibitydoo2 votes

both xerath and lux have more cc abilities and can deal most of their damage from a safe 800+ range.

you get 550 attack range at most with draven

Subject 52 votes

item 3040 Blows dick item 3102 Sucks balls item 3157 Death Staller

AD itemization is absolutely bonkers for AD's and I've been saying it for years. AD even benefits greatly and stacks with some runes / masters.

D357R0Y3R2 votes

ROA morello seraphin zhonya liandry Rylai Banshee protobelt

Ahri Body Pillow1 votes

Black Cleaver Sterak's Gage Trinity Force Phantom Dancer Maw of Malmortius Death's Dance Bloodthirster Mercurial Scimitar Edge of Night Guardian Angel Titanic Hydra Frozen Mallet

D357R0Y3R1 votes

Yea

that's why we see 3k hp adcs amirite

meanwhile we fight 3k hp mages in every single game without talking about seraph shield on ryze/cass

HP Crookshanks1 votes

That's why no one plays AP champions nowadays. [cass-cry] [sg-ahri-1] [sg-janna] [sg-soraka]

IcyPepper1 votes

Why not double-tip and buy a purely defensive item that gives you HP and the defensive stat you want, increasing your effective HP? If the rest of your build is purely offensive, you should still have plenty of damage.

I know that AP itemization isn't great right now, and I hope that changes soon, but the best we can do is make the best of what we have.

... is what I wanted to say at first, but after reviewing the item list I'm not seeing a lot of good options for ranged APC champions. I guess item 3742 might be interesting on someone like Diana I guess, but it ain't gonna do shit for champions like Xerath.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

so youre just going to ignore all the health on mage items?

honestly, if youre not an assassin, mages feel like theyve become quite tanky. its not exactly easy to deal with a 3000 health annie when she has her shield up and tibbers is beating on your ass with a liandries passive.

SeductiveCelery1 votes

hello teammate

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