Seriously? No grievous wound items for AD?

Darling Dolorosa·Nov 30, 2014·8 votes·4,211 views

First no mana burn, now heal reduction is limited to mages and abilities? What counters WW, Xin, Nasus, and other champions who can lifesteal easily now?

15 Comments

HauntNov 30, 20142 votes

Let's be honest nobody was ever building Executioner's anyways.

xRELLIKxApr 4, 20151 votes

I was......

CDMarcoDec 1, 20142 votes

There was nothing wrong with Executioner's Calling. People complained that the stats sucked but I never bought it for the stats, I bought it solely for the passive. It makes dealing with certain champs all the easier, 3 shot a Tryndamere as Shyvana after buying one because he thought he could just heal everything and didn't hit his ult. Trynd, Yi, Swain, Mundo, pretty much any champs that relies on the ability to out sustain you in a fight can't and it pretty much turned a late game WW into a non issue.

Maple CrusaderJan 12, 20152 votes

It would be nice if there was a new AD grievous wounds item. I can't stand Mundo and Volibear at top lane. Obnoxious as hell because they will build crap tons of health and there isn't any reliable way to weaken their absurdly fast healing unless I brought Ignite or play a champion with true damage.

xRELLIKxApr 4, 20151 votes

yeha right now tanks meta you HAVE to sink SOOO much $ into a Botrk, its retarded

JustMyBassCannonJan 12, 20152 votes

item 3075

Let me teach you of the wonder that is Thornmail. It reflects damage based on the damage they would deal before Armor is accounted, so it's worth 30% of the damage--including Crits--before on-hit effects. It is also a chunk of +100 Armor, meaning you're going to take significantly less physical damage on-hit.

Oh, but the fun doesn't stop there. Unlike Thornmail, Lifesteal gains HP based on the damage actually dealt after Armor, so you're already reducing their life gain with that +100 Armor. Then, you're also reflecting damage to negate their self-heal.

It is almost impossible to have enough Lifesteal to heal past Thornmail's damage output in any realistic scenario. You would need 4 items to counteract its effectiveness on its own.

Or, if you're a Marksman/Assassin, simply building enough damage that their Lifesteal is pointless works.

Knight SoIaire Jan 12, 20152 votes

Let me teach you of the wonder that is Thornmail

its a wonder when ahri pushes a ball up your .... and laughs at your corpse

any mage can show you this wonder

in a realistic scenario thornmail isnt worth it because you get rekt by magic damage and you bought only one stat

i like how cheap but still crappy this item it

JustMyBassCannonJan 12, 20152 votes

If you're building defensive items, the fact that Thornmail is mono-stat shouldn't be that much of a problem. But thank you for making me fantasize magic balls up my ass.

If you're a bruiser, Thornmail's a valid option. Your dueling strength goes up, and you have all the Armor you need. Otherwise, you're going to have enough damage that it would take some ridiculous heal strength to survive it.

Knight SoIaire Jan 12, 20151 votes

Your dueling strength

duels are rare above silver (dunno where you are and i dont want to offend anyone here, im just speaking from experience) also no autoatacker will duel a guy with thornmail

and you have all the Armor you need.

but again its only armour. if you wont combine it with hp it isnt worth anything

Otherwise, you're going to have enough damage that it would take some ridiculous heal strength to survive it.

or built in arpen on a spell casting bruiser (not so rare)

when i look at both your and mine post the only real scenario in which i see thornmail usefull is when you meet an autoatacker on toplane then you wont be bothered by mages or bigger fights

but again you will need to go down sometime

JustMyBassCannonJan 13, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ozMKHfNl,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2015-01-12T06:04:41.235+0000)

duels are rare above silver (dunno where you are and i dont want to offend anyone here, im just speaking from experience) also no autoatacker will duel a guy with thornmail

You're saying there's never a situation where a bruiser can force a duel, basically.

The very same archetype that is characterized by dueling, particularly in the early stages of the game.

but again its only armour. if you wont combine it with hp it isnt worth anything

Yes, it's only Armor. That's why it's not the only defense item you buy. I didn't know I had to spell everything out. Are you expecting me to just build Thornmail, leave my other 5 item slots open? Or perhaps stack 6 Thornmails? Because neither of those is a flattering assumption of my intelligence.

Thank you, captain obvious, for pointing out that a bruiser with Thornmail still needs to buy other defensive items, as if there was ever a time that bruisers didn't need to buy multiple defense items.

or built in arpen on a spell casting bruiser (not so rare)

Spell-casting bruisers are pretty rare. You can find several who have a signature spell, but the closest to a spell-focused bruiser is Riven (mostly because she's the only non-assassin AD champ focused on spells).

when i look at both your and mine post the only real scenario in which i see thornmail usefull is when you meet an autoatacker on toplane then you wont be bothered by mages or bigger fights

but again you will need to go down sometime

...and what kind of champions go in top lane?

Aside from the odd Singed/Swain/Ryze, pretty much everyone who goes top is based on attacks.

Knight SoIaire Jan 13, 20151 votes

Yes, it's only Armor. That's why it's not the only defense item you buy. I didn't know I had to spell everything out. Are you expecting me to just build Thornmail, leave my other 5 item slots open? Or perhaps stack 6 Thornmails? Because neither of those is a flattering assumption of my intelligence.

you build thornmail first and it sucks because you have only armor you build it with warmogs it sucks because you had only hp before you build it with randuins annd you have loads of excess armor that loses its effectiveness you try to stick some ad into your build and it delays a load of important stats like hp and mr

whenever you get it there is always something you lose (stat progression, gold value ) that you wouldnt lose buying randuin+banshee combo

Thank you, captain obvious, for pointing out that a bruiser with Thornmail still needs to buy other defensive items, as if there was ever a time that bruisers didn't need to buy multiple defense items.

you wont buy those items at the start of the game and your build needs to progresively grow, thornmail makes a big crap out of this because either you get it early and you dont have other stats or you get it late and you have loads of excess stats which are worth less gold

Spell-casting bruisers are pretty rare

if you mean bruiser mages yes if you mean bruisers who mave most of their damage in spells then its total nope

JustMyBassCannonJan 13, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ozMKHfNl,comment-id=000500000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-01-13T05:24:37.578+0000)

you build thornmail first and it sucks because you have only armor you build it with warmogs it sucks because you had only hp before you build it with randuins annd you have loads of excess armor that loses its effectiveness you try to stick some ad into your build and it delays a load of important stats like hp and mr

whenever you get it there is always something you lose (stat progression, gold value ) that you wouldn't lose buying randuin+banshee combo

You have the wrong mentality about building niche items.

You don't build Spirit Visage over Banshee's Veil unless your champion is based on self-heals. You don't build Frozen Heart over Randuin's Omen unless you have several melee opponents and/or a champion with a gap closer. You don't build Thornmail unless you are dealing with attackers when laning.

The entire point of a niche item is that it fits the situation. Thornmail is cheaper than other Armor options, so you can easily complete it during the laning phase. It punishes your opponent for attacking you consistently, and nearly doubles your physical EHP on its own, and it will scale up your defense when you buy health later (if you're a bruiser and you're not building health, you may as well play a mage and not build CDR, or a marksman without AS).

And if you build it with Randuin's, you'll have more Armor to deal with Last Whisper in the late game.

you wont buy those items at the start of the game and your build needs to progressively grow, thornmail makes a big crap out of this because either you get it early and you dont have other stats or you get it late and you have loads of excess stats which are worth less gold

I'm repeating myself, but Thornmail is a lane phase item. You either have the right situation to buy it and you do, or you don't and you don't. It's not a go-to option.

if you mean bruiser mages yes if you mean bruisers who mave most of their damage in spells then its total nope

Give me a list. Most bruisers have damage in their abilities, but they're still based on attack damage. A lot of them have a spell that just resets their attack timer.

M4nTiCoR3Nov 30, 20141 votes

Nothing save morellonomicon, ignite, and the few counter pick champions with GW on their kits.

They did mention in the patch notes that some of the items removed may come back, albeit reworked and in a different form in the future. One can only hope an AD item with GW that is viable counter pick option is one of them.

CheesecakecrushNov 30, 20141 votes

If Executioner's Calling built into something that brought the GW with it, that'd be great. I'd buy it on a few champs to deal with healers like swain and mundo but being forced into AP champ picks vs them is kinda bad.

PryotraNov 30, 20141 votes

GW is getting removed from the game. If not removed, nerfed heavily as a mechanic.

Morello has tipped his hand on this one. Grevious wounds has hurt how heals work in this game. Characters like mundo and Swain need out of line heals to remain relevant. As a result, after Grevious wounds kicks the bucket, they can then balance heals.