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How to win kassadin as a lux or just mages in general?

200ms50fpsmacOS··1 votes·1,798 views

I find it very hard to win him in lane and harder late game. I played lux against kassadin and here's basically what happened.

Trading pre 6 : I know that I lose trades if I get his by his Q so I poke him with my e. So I poke him with my e that costs around 14% of my mana. He gets hit by it and assuming he also gets hit by comet, true damage it does 95 (13% of his hp) but considering his passive and magic resist plus fleet I lose 14% of mana to chunk down 4% of his health. So I try not to use e at lv 1. Lv 4 I have 2 points in e that does around 150 damage with comet. Still not worth considering my e is an aoe it will pushes the minion wave and it still costs a lot of mana to just get a little bit of his health. At lv 5 I finally does a decent amount of damage to him but will still cost the minion wave to push against him. Why not shove pre 6? because if I try to shove pre 6 it requires auto attacks. And getting into an auto-attack range means kassadin can Q me behind minions. so at lv 5 he does 140 damage from his q and gains 115 magic damage shield. I use e and run away if he comes near me but then the minions will be one auto away from death so I'll either have to use my q to kill 2 minions at the back while getting zoned by kassadin or wait another 9 seconds to kill them. Even if I do successfully shove he can hold the wave at his turret and tp back. At that point, I am going to both overextend and exhaust my mana bar just to poke him. So I go back to lane and loses in cs to a "late-game champion"

LV 6-11 At this point, I can only use e to farm due to the fact that if I get close to minions he can dash on me get hit by everything and still win the trade and win even harder from fleetwork after I use my cooldowns. I automatically loses lane to a late-game champion that has no skillshots and basically no mana since he has either lost chapter or tear. One combo I lose half my health bar and will die to the next one if I continue to stay. I ended up being behind to him 15 cs at around 16 minutes.

LV 11-15 He can basically roam and one shot adcs at this point beyond. With his ultimate being 2.8 seconds assuming he has seraphs embrace(20%cdr) and a 70% slow on them.

LV 16+ Ult is at 1.2 cd with 40%cdr can use it around 6-7 times in a row. At this point if you tell me all I have to do is cc him you should try to get in range to q him and then later on find out he just flashed/used 2 blinks at the expense of 6% mana to get to you and one shot you. Even if you do manage to cc him, by the time It's most likely that he already is in the middle of the team fight and zhonya'd. The next blink can easily get himself out or kill your whole team.

This "late-game champion" in a meta where it's hard to even hit 25 minutes has a steady win rate at 52% in platnium+ a Blink every 1.2 seconds while doing 30% of your health.

9 Comments

Febos3 votes

Title: you don't. Kassadin is an anti-mage assassin and mages are usually fragile targets. Just in case you aren't aware:

  • Kassadin passive reads "takes 15% reduced Magic damage magic damage.".
  • Kassadin Q gives him an anti-magic shield
  • Kassadin has a blink ability on a low cooldown

All those factors combined are the reason why most mages can't deal with Kassadin. Your only change against Kassawin is during early game, pre-6. After that point is pretty much over. Even if you manage to kill him pre-6, he will still outscale you.

To beat Kassadin you need to:

  • Pick an AD champion
  • Pick a champion that can out-sustain him (either by healing, shields or both)
  • Pick a champion that can match his mobility
  • Pick a champion that can kill him faster than he can kill you
  • Some combination of the above.

There's a reason why champions like Talon, Zed and Qiyana have such an easier time against Kassadin. All 3 are assassins and they match him on mobility; all 3 can kill him very fast; all 3 are AD champions.

200ms50fpsmacOS1 votes

so it is fair for one champion to counter an entire class of champions? Does mages do that too? I'm not really sure how this game works anymore

Kazekiba1 votes

{quoted}

so it is fair for one champion to counter an entire class of champions? Does mages do that too? I'm not really sure how this game works anymore

Play Caitlyn, Kog'Maw, Jhin or Ashe when the enemy team has a Syndra, Talon, or Zed. Try to have fun (Protip: You won't)

Yes, mages eat ADCs alive. Malzahar and Brand melt tanks, especially Tank supports, at disgusting speeds (4% max hp damage per second and ignoring pretty much your entire MR unless you dump over 2k gold into straight MR? Fun. Oh, and that %max HP also triggers an EXTRA 2% max HP DoT for 5 seconds. Even better, you also get to explode for over 20%!!!)

200ms50fpsmacOS1 votes

To be honest playing against brand velkoz and xerath in lane as any enchanter support is not fun as well. There's not much you can do in lane besides maxing shield/heal to sustain your adc and complete your quest at 25 minutes - when the game possibly already ended. Xerath is kind of balanced whereas vel'koz's q has annoying slows low-cost mana plus longer range than xerath's q if used correctly. Brand should be gutted down already since he's bad as a mid laner where he originally was designed to be in. But amazing as a 0/6/2 damage dps support.

Kazekiba1 votes

{quoted}

To be honest playing against brand velkoz and xerath in lane as any enchanter support is not fun as well. There's not much you can do in lane besides maxing shield/heal to sustain your adc and complete your quest at 25 minutes - when the game possibly already ended. Xerath is kind of balanced whereas vel'koz's q has annoying slows low-cost mana plus longer range than xerath's q if used correctly. Brand should be gutted down already since he's bad as a mid laner where he originally was designed to be in. But amazing as a 0/6/2 damage dps support.

let me try to fix brand;

Base health 519.68(+88) 490(+91) Attack Damage: 57.04 (+3) 59 (+3) Enemies struck by brand's abilities take 3% maximum health 10 ~ 45 damage (+2.5% max health) over 3.25 seconds, stacking up to three times (9% max HP 30 - 135(+7.5% max health) at max stacks)

Sear (Q) m Mana Cost: 60 at all ranks 40 / 55 / 70 / 85 / 100 Damage: 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 / 200(55% AP) -> 70 / 95 / 110 / 135 / 150 (+65% AP)

W Mana cost: 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 -> 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 / 70 Ablaze bonus: 25% more damage --> 8% target's max health damage

Pyroclasm (R) Damage: 100 / 200 / 300(+25% AP) 50 / 150 / 300 (+25% AP) Ablaze bonus: 30 / 45 / 60% slow --> 20% increased damage (60 / 180 / 360(+30% AP) per bounce)

Benefits: Q Mana cost down early, up late. Q max brand has to be more careful about using his stuns, but can throw it for poke periodically still. Might be better to make a similar change to the cooldowns instead - 6 seconds at all ranks - instead, depending on what the optimal pattern currently is.

W Mana cost way down; deals more damage against targets that build health with the passive already on them, further builds on brand's tank-killing niche. Might push him as a viable top laner, too.

R Damage way up late, but loses utility and lots of damage right at level 6 - Hurts support brand more because of the ability to stack it on two champions, but he gets most of the damage back later on as lane phase ends.

Attack damage up, health down early. Easier last hits, but squishier - thus easier to kill in a 2v2 lane. base damage added to passive but nerfed % max health damage helps waveclear, especially with QE combos on the melee/caster minions

Febos2 votes

{quoted}

so it is fair for one champion to counter an entire class of champions?

I don't know. There are more champions that completely negate certain classes. For example, Vayne pretty much removes most Tanks from the game. If the enemy picks Vayne, you don't want a Tank on your team. Lulu deals with Assassins; Kennen deals with most Top match-ups;

Those are 3 that come to mind immediately, but I'm sure there are more. There are also some champions that "hard-counter" other champions.

{quoted}

Does mages do that too?

There was a time when mages were extremely good. So good, in fact, that they nerfed the entire class. People like Hashinshin still complain about Mages to this day, but, as a class, they are just average. There's nothing wrong with being average.

Anyway, to answer the question, Mages, in general, deal with Tanks. One of the reasons why you don't much of them (mages) nowadays. Tanks (Maokai, Sion, Ornn, etc) are meh.

HeresyHorus2 votes

Dear listen, Mages got so many effective counters in this game. soft and hard (sadly) counters.

Kassadin is one of them.

Forfeit the class. go play AD champs into Kassadin and destroy him with minimum effort.

item 3157 will not help him against AD champs mid.

Want to tilt him ? play ranged AD champ mid like Quinn. he will cry.

Oh and don't listen to those telling you full AD comps are countered by armor. cuz they aren't.

Kazekiba1 votes

How to beat Kassadin, a Master class:

End the game before 25 minutes. Learn how to destroy towers and take dragons and by god, shove lanes whenever Kassadin roams and immediately recall after. Dont try to match - you'll be too late anyway because you dont have a flash on a 3 second CD, and you won't be able to help as he just dodges all your skill shots and then you let him turn a double kill into a triple.

TetricZoldatNA1 votes

Shitting on Kass in laning phase is easier than some people think, if you beat him in laning phase it gets really hard for him to recover later, and i will teach you now my opinion in how you should do it as im a kass main myself.

You should take summoner 21 Or summoner 1 depending on the enemy jungler too.

Pre lvl 6: So in this phase of the lane you should take advantage of your AA range and your Q to harass him, you should try let the wave push by only killing melee minions and using the casters to put the wave to where you want it to be, When you freeze the wave it will force the kassadin to walk up for CS which you will punish by harasing him with AA and Qs, also by doing this the kass is more vulnerable to ganks and if you have a early-aggressive jungler, you can force his flash or a bad recall.

Post lvl 6: this phase is a little bit harder but if you have item advantage cause of kills or CS lead, you should be fine. In this phase you need to push the wave as much as possible to prevent the kass from roaming or trying to trade with you, so what you would do is push with your E (And if its possible also harass him with the E but focus on pushing the wave) and if he ever tries to R to force a trade Just Use W-Q-Auto and then walk back, Kassadin R Range is 500 units (a little bit more than summoner 4 ) so position yourself where he would not be able to use his R properly, always save your Q for when he tries to do this and be aware that by doing this you are more vulnerable to ganks so proper vision and proper jungle tracking will help you a lot.

Also buying item 1033 is good for early If you really have a bad time with him.

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