Over-aggressive champions don't get punished enough

Spirit of Raava·3/9/2015, 4:29:00 PM·14 votes·2,182 views

Has anyone else noticed that over-aggressive champs, even to the point of pushing you against your tower and still poking you, don't get punished nearly enough for being over-aggressive? I mean come on, there has to be a balance here. If champs like Ahri and Katarina can just ult in and 100 to 0 you on your turret, with ZERO repercussions, that to me speaks to a severe lack of balance, either because of those champions or because the towers need greater range or greater damage/faster firing rate.

22 Comments

FHMarshy3/9/2015, 4:52:26 PM11 votes

Here are my opinions:

Ahri and Fizz can't really 100-0 you now from JUST ULT. You need to hit most of your shots on Ahri to kill someone while fizz just doesn't have the oomph on Ult anymore.

Talon and Diana basically are dead after they blow all the CD on you.

Zed really is only scary if fed, I've seen countless under-fed Zed Ulting someone but barely leave a dent.

Akali requires the repetitive Ults, Q and E to kill someone, not really 100-0

Fiora , again, needs to be fed to 100-0 someone, but her Ult is annoying as hell

Katarina is the only one that I agree with you here.

Nybyn3/9/2015, 5:11:21 PM4 votes

The thing is, this change would barely affect these champions mentioned, since many of them have some sort of disengage after killing you (Zed just goes back to his shadow, Ahri returns using another dash, Fizz might be able to E back to safety, Katarina gets E reset, etc).

Champions without mechanics like the above mentioned would get punished even harder by this change and would in a way encourage mobilty creep.

Some tips:

Most assassins have weak laning phases (pretty much any melee champion), try to punish that by harassing them.
Your jungler needs to help prevent dives and punish overextensions.
Don't stay in lane at low health versus enemies that could kill you under turret.
If you fall behind, try to avoid combat and just farm, buy wards to spot enemy roams and hope for comeback through picks/teamfights.
Buying defensive items to negate their damage is often a good idea.

Drunk Rummate3/9/2015, 5:15:18 PM4 votes

the reason they are aggressive is because they can be

as far as towers, i dont think damage needs to be changed, but i think target tracking should be improved. all too often i see aggro getting juggled to a degree where the tower hardly even shoots. it's ridiculous. or i'll be getting destroyed by 3 people under tower and for some reason it's just idly shooting at a minion.

Audiomancy3/9/2015, 6:42:09 PM4 votes

If Towers hit harder/faster, that would punish immobile champions more than mobile ones which we really don't need right now.

thomasb12153/9/2015, 4:32:44 PM4 votes

I mean... it's more about whether your team punishes them. There a reason dive champs don't get picked a lot in the LCS, with the exception of Ahri, because they can't make such risky dive plays against a coordinated team which will kill them for it. But in solo queue, yeah, they probably won't get punished. So it's kind of hard to balance them knowing team play and solo queue both have to be taken into account.

53872273_DEL3/9/2015, 5:39:31 PM2 votes

} Malzahar they dive you ult.. And say " gg shrubs" then they will complain to nerf malz because too op

Llanite3/9/2015, 6:30:20 PM1 votes

Most if not all you listed can't 100-0 someone unless far ahead.

And how Akali, Fiora or FIzz poke you under turret?

Azir Cassiopeia Xerath Heimerdinger more likely to fit your profile as "aggressive champions"

Kitten of Evil3/9/2015, 6:30:40 PM1 votes

Oh, yeah a lot of divers can't be punished that much, but I wouldn't say all the ones on your list are problems. Anyone who can dash in but not easily dash out (Talon, Diana, Fiora, and even Akali) are VERY vulnerable to CC under tower.

The ones who are a problem are Leblanc, Zed, Fizz, Ahri, and Kat, who can dive in, but most notably cannot be easily CCed under tower by just one person. You snare LB under tower for 2 seconds? That's no big deal, she has a 4 second window to return to her W. Same with Zed -- his ult shadow lasts 6 seconds. Same with Kat -- she'll just wait for your CC to wear off, then Shunpo away. Same with Ahri. 3 charges on her ult means she can easily get away even if she takes tower hits. Fizz can pop projectiles using his E.

I don't know why Riot thinks that handing an assassin a free 4-6 second window to complete their combo is necessary or fair. They don't need that full time to burst you down, but it gives them extremely forgiving dives even if you CC them. Unless, of course, they die before you do.

EDIT: Wait, seriously? Leblanc wasn't on your list?

FebruAhri3/9/2015, 6:51:55 PM1 votes

ahri can't 100-0 you unless she's far ahead though

only larvitar3/11/2015, 7:35:04 PM1 votes

i do think towers should shoot slightly faster or at least get off LAST SHOT PLEASE DIE, sometimes. Like in situations where i have died to a tower dive and the last turret shot that would make a trade is "Removed" because the zed moved back to his shadow that was 7000 yards away.

Meep Man3/9/2015, 5:19:08 PM1 votes

Its more about do you yourself have the crowd control to punish them. If you don't, you are most likely playing a super aggressive champion as well meaning its going to be who does the most damage and gets out alive in the end.

Chespin20133/9/2015, 5:26:04 PM1 votes

personally i think talon, akali, and fizz got punished enoughed as it is i think kata and ahri and zed are really the only issues that and make mana regen better for mages would be better to lane against them

Saianna3/9/2015, 5:40:39 PM1 votes

What if turrets would reduce enemy champion damage by 1/3 when they focus them? Or every shot adds 0,1s silence? That could help a tiny bit.

Mikal Pikal3/9/2015, 5:49:14 PM1 votes

None of the champions you listed can 100-0 you without already being very far ahead. More likely, you are sticking around with 40% hp against an assassin with ignite. That is your mistake and you should have recalled or called for jungler help before the dive. Specifically with regards to kat, if her all in doesn't kill you right away she will likely die from the tower since she has no escape other than maybe flash.

KING ATTILA3/9/2015, 5:55:24 PM1 votes

Tryndamere FWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!