Trying to balance Kog as the centerpiece ADC in Solo is an effort in futility

Rebonack··4 votes·401 views

Because unless something pretty drastic happens, Miss Fortune is going to be a better champ to build a team around.

The reason is pretty simple. Constantly peeling for and protecting Kog is hard. The agency is all on the shoulders of Kog's allies.

Using one AoE CC Ult so that MF can chain it together with her own R is easy. The agency is primarily on MF to use her Ult at the right time.

Trying to balance the risk/reward for Koggy in Solo queue to be on par with a champion like Miss Fortune will be incredibly difficult and likely result in Kog being over-tuned in highly organized games.

So allow me to suggest something totally different.

There's another way to play Kog aside from balls to the walls glass cannon that embraces the fact that he's going to get pounced on by the enemy team and there's absolutely nothing his player can do about it. The change to his W scaling, in fact, supports this particular build-style quite well. I speak of the path of TanKoggy. Not pure tank, of course. Rageblade, Wit's, and Mallet are all core offensive items. But the goal is to balance offense and defense to the point of turning Kog into a living turret. He's about as mobile as one, so why not build him like one? Sure he loses a little bit of damage, but when you're three to four times as durable, does that really matter?

Riot turned Graves into the game's Fighter/Marksmen. He's got the defense, mobility, burst, sustained damage, and solid CC that we've come to expect from diving Fighters. But the guy is still a Marksmen through and through. So why not admit Koggy has moved in a similar direction? What I'm proposing here is that Kog already is the game's Juggernaut/Marksmen.

He's the Darius of ranged champions. You either dive and focus him, or you get eaten alive.

Riot could support this, easily. It would be an absolutely unique niche for Koggy to fill, and one he already does well (hell, he did it well back when his Q was a flat resist shred, too). Kog would need two things to support this play style fully. The first is a new Innate that helps keep him alive in the thick of team-fights. Some form of health stealing would be totally thematic for a champion that's all about eating things in his Lore. The second is a duration-extension on his W when he manages to score a kill or assist so that he can keep up the momentum of a winning fight. Bio-arcane Barrage shutting off in the middle of a pitched battle currently means Kog has just become dead weight, and that needs to go.

I know it sounds weird. I know the knee-jerk reaction is to balk at such a strange idea. But after thousands of games as Koggy I can safely say that this is the most viable way to play him right now. All Kog needs is a little push in the right direction to really shine.

9 Comments

Mr Vulcanator1 votes

I like this idea.

Rebonack1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mr Vulcanator,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ocBxz35E,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-12-12T18:37:17.290+0000)

I like this idea.

Glad you think it's interesting.

I would love hearing from the people who don't like the idea, too.

This change wouldn't prevent Koggy from being built as a glass cannon any more than Darius prevents you from building him as a glass cannon. You can still do it, you're probably just going to explode as a result.

Mr Vulcanator1 votes

{quoted} you're probably just going to explode as a result.

Quite literally in Kog's case.

As far as the haters go they seem to just want to down vote you instead of saying anything.

BluePolarizer1 votes

I actually played Kog more defensively when I tried to get good at ADC back in late s5.

I went item 3078 item 3153 item 3006 item 3139 item 3026item 3046 since Kog already did a crap ton of damage with his base damage, W and sheen proc spell weaving. His damage output with a defensive build with 3 damage items is comparable to early game ADCs going 4 damage items.

I agree that I really don't think there's any way for Kog to be played as a stationary glass cannon. That overlaps with not only MF but also Jinx. I actually believe his changes should be reverted and his base damage should be balanced as a bruiser ADC. For example, nerf the range gain on old W, but give him a defensive passive (something like Void Shell - Gain +5 Armor/MR on hit. Maximum of 6 stacks).

Rebonack2 votes

{quoted}

I actually played Kog more defensively when I tried to get good at ADC back in late s5.

I went item 3078 item 3153 item 3006 item 3139 item 3026item 3046 since Kog already did a crap ton of damage with his base damage, W and sheen proc spell weaving. His damage output with a defensive build with 3 damage items is comparable to early game ADCs going 4 damage items.

I agree that I really don't think there's any way for Kog to be played as a stationary glass cannon. That overlaps with not only MF but also Jinx. I actually believe his changes should be reverted and his base damage should be balanced as a bruiser ADC. For example, nerf the range gain on old W, but give him a defensive passive (something like Void Shell - Gain +5 Armor/MR on hit. Maximum of 6 stacks).

I'm personally fond of the remake. Casting his Ult as an execute helps dampen abuse cases. Making his W double his attack speed helps to cement Koggy as the living turret champion. These are good things that amplify his identity.

Let me give an example of what I have in mind with the new Innate.

Icathian Surprise: Kog'Maw's skills and basic attacks place stacks of Icathian Surprise on enemy champions. Upon reaching (large number) stacks or the target's death they detonate, dealing (amount) AoE True Damage and healing Kog'Maw for (amount) per stack. Upon detonation, Kog'Maw gains Feeding Frenzy for (duration). While under the effect of Feeding Frenzy Kog'Maw's basic attacks and spells apply two stacks of Icathian Surprise rather than one.

So what we've got here is a momentum-based Innate. You would want the stacks to drop off fairly quickly since a very good form of counter-play against Kog is already baiting out his W and then falling back until it wears off. This would help to further cement Koggy's weakness against foes that can quickly move in and out of combat to dance around his damage while at the same time further highlighting his strength against divers who under-estimate him.

I'm not sure what a good stack cap would be. My kneejerk reaction is to say ten or twelve since that is a lot of stacks, but still possible to pull off due to Koggy's W.

BluePolarizer1 votes

But there are already living turret type champs: Ashe, Jinx and MF pretty much fight as living turrets.

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

But there are already living turret type champs: Ashe, Jinx and MF pretty much fight as living turrets.

By 'living turret' I mean a champion that is more or less rooted in place while attacking. MF sort of does that when she Ults, but the rest of the time she should be moving around to weave attacks between Qs for optimal coverage.

Ashe should be kiting using her slow and her W.

Jinx should be moving between each rocket and peeling for herself with chompers as needed.

Due to the double attack speed on Koggy's W, the best way to play him is to find a good position, pop his W, and go to town.

Erockandroll1 votes

In solo, yeah. But if teammate cooperated, or even build a comp around kog' that would be a whole nother story.

The fact that Kog'maw doubles AS from all sources means that spells like Nid's primal surge, or Nunu's blood boil, is all that more effective.

As for me, If I saw a Kog on my team, I would pick up Lulu. (pretty much regardless of my own position or lane matchup.) Her ult is going to be plenty for keeping Kog safe, while her help pix, would synergize with Kog's ridiculous AS.

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

In solo, yeah. But if teammate cooperated, or even build a comp around kog' that would be a whole nother story.

But getting results is still easier for MF since the agency for teams built around her is in her court. She just has to push R after Amumu ults. And it doesn't hurt that MF is an amazing lane bully, too. That's the main point here. There are other ADCs that you can build a team around who yield much better, much more consistent results for less effort.

Why try to force Kog into an ADC niche that others do better?

The fact that Kog'maw doubles AS from all sources means that spells like Nid's primal surge, or Nunu's blood boil, is all that more effective.

This is very true. Kog multiplies the effectiveness of quite a few team buffs.

As for me, If I saw a Kog on my team, I would pick up Lulu. (pretty much regardless of my own position or lane matchup.) Her ult is going to be plenty for keeping Kog safe, while her help pix, would synergize with Kog's ridiculous AS.

Except this one. Pix' bolts are capped at six bolts per second, or 2.0 attack speed. Koggy goes way above that point when he hits W. I've personally found that if I've just one Support rather than a whole team, Janna with a Censer is the best partner for Koggy.

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