Why does Haunting Guise cost 1600g ?

Sohleks·2/29/2016, 8:01:10 PM·109 votes·5,667 views

.. while at the very same time becomes incredibly strong, comes at 1100g (500g less!), and we entice every ADC to complete 3rd?

Was incredibly prevalent before? No. But it was usable. exists for a mere 2350g and is significantly more useful. This thread isn't about abyssal though, in fact it's one of my favorite items and I wouldn't like to see it nerfed.

But in 's current state it is USELESS.

This is probably a not so insignificant reason why Rumble is underperforming in lane, with MR items coming much faster and a bit stronger than magic pen.

I suggest lowering the cost or giving guise more than 25 ap. Otherwise it's just a crappy build component.

91 Comments

Zero Skill Tank2/29/2016, 8:06:53 PM45 votes

Because it's a mage item and thus it can't be anywhere close to decent or Zed would be too weak?

SeargentAnus2/29/2016, 8:34:59 PM39 votes

item 3136 comes out to be 101% cost efficient while item 3155 is 103% cost efficient even before you count it's passive. To make more useful it should have a baby passive of item 3151 imo

Abyssphere2/29/2016, 9:16:56 PM24 votes

It is ludicrously expensive. Even 1500g was a pretty high price for it last season but it's just... so hard to justify it as an actual power spike now. Liandry's is pretty OK but Haunting Guise is supposed to be the "buy this for the spike, complete way later" AP item and it's just not fulfilling that role anymore.

Sohleks2/29/2016, 8:34:36 PM17 votes

They bumped the cost of guise up when rebalancing AP items and their gold efficiency. They were probably afraid of how overpowered their DFT was at first as well as FQC and aoe mage support "cheesing"

For the most part it turned out ok... But Riot needs to remember gold does not directly translate into champion power. It's gold -> stats/items -> champion power. I could arbitrarily revalue any stat and reprice the items and make a different meta game. It would easily get stupid... My point is though stats rely on the power of other stats... and on haunting guise we have a very special stat. Flat magic penetration. This is a stat that is very time gated as it's kinda shutdown by the arrival of mr items. And everyone has great mid game MR items this season. ADCs will run two mr items if they don't have to buy a LW (maw/qss). And so we have a triangle meta of tanks/adcs/mages. Who woulda thought the nerfing of LW would end up shafting mages as much as adcs xd

Players will spend their gold as best they can... currently that means do not buy guise or play champions/ builds that would like to.

Rivini3/1/2016, 12:27:22 AM9 votes

Riot secretly hates AP. It's why most other mage items also had a sizable cost increase months ago.

Welcome to League of AD.

The Yetii Rider3/1/2016, 3:37:14 AM7 votes

Magic penetration is very different from magic resistance, though your thread seems to take the narrow-minded approach that itemization is all about the laning phase.

Let me explain something to you. Magic Resistance will be relevant against one or two enemies on any given team. If I buy Hexdrinker, it gives me next to 0 resistance to the damage from the marksman, the fighter, or the juggernaut, and the resistance it gives me against the support's damage is minimal at best (since supports generally don't do a whole lot of damage anyway, and most of it is to the front line).

Magic penetration applies to all five members of the enemy team. This is especially important because many mages actually have the ability to damage all five members of the enemy team with the same ability.

Haunting Guise, and Magic Penetration in general, is fantastic during team fights. I honestly think it's undercosted. But sure, cry about how it doesn't function in lane against AD assassins, who make up maybe 5% of all midlane champions.

AD assassins: Zed Talon Yasuo

Other midlaners: Ahri Akali Anivia Annie Azir Cassiopeia Chogath Corki Diana Ekko Ezreal Fizz Galio Heimerdinger Karma Karthus Kassadin Katarina Kayle Leblanc Lissandra Lulu Lux Malzahar Mordekaiser Morgana Nidalee Orianna Syndra TwistedFate Veigar Velkoz Viktor Ziggs

Dominick Destine2/29/2016, 8:03:10 PM7 votes

While I completely agree that Haunting Guise is pure garbage.... you also have to remember that MR piercing goes after % based MR reduction, meaning that the effect is amplified.

That is to say; If someone like Rumble has Piercing Thoughts (Is that the right name? 7% pierce?) and Void Staff, the 15 points from Haunting Guise will become much stronger than if it were only 15 points from Haunting Guise.

Again, I agree with you but the case is strong enough on its own, you don't need to downplay the effectiveness of penetration.

Jasiwel3/1/2016, 2:08:26 AM7 votes

item 3136 is not useless by any means. It gives flat magic pen and health - two extraordinarily useful stats for mages. It's a transition item for a currently strong Liandry's and it's the only other AP/HP item in the game aside from Rylai's/RoA.

I think they should make it 1450 to be fair. 1600 is steep.

Very Hard Engage2/29/2016, 9:08:46 PM6 votes

id rather see it just give more AP and be comparable to buying a large rod. and then id probably just leave it inventory and buy other items because of how weak liandries is. the burn effect is negligible.

it has all these great stats for lane, but the item as a whole just doesn't pan out.

Llanite3/1/2016, 4:06:17 AM6 votes

The correct comparison is item 3134 which is 1100g but without the health.

Flat spell/armor penetration is expensive because it immediately forces the other laner to acquire MR which does not contribute anything meaningful but to negate the pene (or MR is zeroed and they take true dmg)

Vekkna3/1/2016, 3:53:10 PM5 votes

MR costs 18g per point. Mpen costs 53.3g per point.

Armor costs 20g per point. ArPen costs 40g per point.

Totally makes sense except that it makes no sense at all.

TotalJerk3/1/2016, 4:55:21 AM5 votes

A better question is why doesn't anything else build out of it? In it's current state guise is reminiscent of a pre-rework Black Cleaver.

Erdamon3/1/2016, 2:42:13 PM5 votes

When you get down to it, the Haunting Guise's cost can still somewhat be justified, it could be lowered by like 50-100 gold but overall, it's not necessarily useless, it's still somewhat of an item that spikes your damage if you have the lead and aim for some magic pen.

WHAT IS THE REAL PROBLEM IS THAT FULL LIANDRY'S DOESN'T INCREASE THE MAGIC PEN FURTHER NOT EVEN BY A MERE 5 POINTS, WHILE A FULLY COMPLETED SPIRIT VISAGE IS A WHOOPING 70 MAGIC RESIST ITEM THAT ON TOP OF THAT GRANTS YOU 500 HEALTH, 10% CDR AND 150% BASE HEALTH REGEN WHICH IS AMPLIFIED FURTHER TO 180% BECAUSE OF ITS PASSIVE THAT MAKES ALL OF HEALING EFFECTS ON HOLDER BE AMPLIFIED BY 20%. AND IT'S 400 GOLD CHEAPER THAN LIANDRY'S TOO. PRETTY FUN EH.

Dengeden3/1/2016, 2:48:16 AM3 votes

Draws deep and stupidly elaborate breath ADs have to fight you for their stats to be useful. APs can do whatever their kit encourages to do, as long as they have items.

Also, Hextrinker is nothing but defense. Guise gives magic pen alongside defense.

WadeWilson13373/1/2016, 1:51:03 AM3 votes

The thing is item 3136 is meant to be an item you rush on ap champions when youre ahead and want to blow people up with your excess magic pen. 15 Magic pen is quite alot...then again i think that the amount of armor pen you can get is insane right now.

I mean, this is Graves highest win% build. item 3142 item 3156 item 3009 item 3147 item 3053 item 3071