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Why do people just bandwagon literally anything they see on GD/LCS?

I GANK LANES··30 votes·4,083 views

This is not a troll post, all I see is the same complaints about the exact same champs every single day, I don't understand so if someone can please explain to me; I'll run through a few that I'm talking about. . Zed---------The claim: Unrivaled mobility, way too safe, able to get in and get out without taking damage. Also, "dude wtf his ult like goes untargetable and he can just swap out back to his shadow.

Zed-------The reality: The dude's ONLY non-ultimate mobility ability is on an 18 second cooldown at lvl 1, it has a range to port back to, and he can't swap in the same sense that Leblanc can. (will get to her later) His ult, first of all, you have a legit MARK showing where he's gonna end up after he ults. Second, you guys do realize that you can see the shadow too? He's either going to keep running, or swap back to his shadow, which you can see. Smart thing to do? stay close to his shadow and don't run, if you do you're giving him a free get out of jail free card. What I see everyone do? They run, Zed kills them while the whole team is chasing, no one stays at his shadow, and he gets out scot free by teleing back to his shadow.

Lee Sin-----The claim: Omg OP, kit overloaded such damage, such cc, much wow. Too mobile omg

Lee Sin-----The reality: Where's the dude strongest at? Early game, strong early ganks. IF A JUNGLER HAS A STRONG EARLY GAME THEN PLAY SAFE, DON'T PUSH TO TURRET. "Wow dude gg lee sin op, ganks at lvl 3, damage op execute q wow." I never understood why people say lee sin does damage, ever. The dude literally falls off so had even after just buying a warden's mail. He either builds full damage and gets blown up trying to insec dive, or builds a hydra and does mediocre damage after early. His ult is strong but in no way OP, at all.

Katarina----The claim: WTF seriously Kat penta so OP much damage wtf?

Katarina----The reality: Her early game and laning phase is trash. You ping she's gone, don't push the lane. Your team has ANY type of lock-down cc you make her useless. She relies on snowballing and if you she doesn't, she's useless.

Nidalee----The claim: This is one of the funniest ones as of now. Her spears have always been strong but Meteos plays her in LCS and ALL I see now is people complaining about this bitch. "JUNGLE NID OP SURR 20"

Nidaele-----The reality: You sit inside your minions and she's absolutely USELESS FOR early snowballing. she has to hit a spear to even get in range to gank which is pretty damn easy considering the width of it and minions block it. I don't care if Meteos played her LCS, she's a trash jungler with no cc and no gank pressure whatsoever in the early and mid game.

There's a few more that I'd like to get to explain in full but this is my first post and I feel like it's getting messy, hopefully someone gives me a reply and I didn't waste my time. I'll try and summarize how to deal with these champs so people can stop complaining about shit they can't handle because they try to play league in a linear fashion, which will never work. I'll also run through a few other's.

Zed: Don't get caught out. If he ults you as an ap, make sure you zhonya a few seconds after he initially ults you. He doesn't have "unrivaled mobility", he's not even that mobile until late game and if he built some CDR. Try and pick up a merc if you're an ad carry. If you have flash up and somewhat of an escape (I'm thinking corki), if you play it safe you should be able to surive with a merc scim. DO NOT RUN AWAY IF HE ULTS YOU IN AT TEAM FIGHT, IF YOU DO MAKE SURE OSME OF YOUR TEAM STAYS BY HIS ULT SHADOW. Also, stay behind minions, reduces his poke by A LOT. Also, for all assassins, actually for any MIA'S, especially mid, make sure to ping.

Lee Sin: Play safe early, don't overextend. Don't let him snowball lanes and he falls off quick.

Kat and Akali: Punish early games, if you're top/bot lane, STAY HEALTHY. Buy a few extra health pots and if you do a heavy trade in lane watch your map, if your mid didn't ping MIA, make sure you do. Also, play lissandra ;)

Yasuo: This dude now has a severely lackluster early game due to the fact of how many times he's been gutted. Pop his shield with an auto and trade with him, pick a long range mage, eg xerath, again lissandra, etc.

Nidalee: In lane, stay behind minions, that's all. If she turns into cougar and uses a rotation to clear a wave, punish her hard for it. If she's jungling, God... SHE'S NOT A STRONG JUNGLER, never has been, never will be! No CC, stay close to minions and constantly move, her spear has such a small width if you keep moving I guarantee the Nid won't even try to chuck a spear at you.

Vi: There's some champs that you just shouldn't try and 1 v 1, Vi's oen of em. Her w armor shred, as buff, and max health damage make her strong af at all stages in the game. That's why I feel people think a lot of champs are OP, dude (insert claimed OP champ here) just killed me I did like no damage to them, wtf? Champions have different purposes, different roles. Ad carry's strong sustained damage, assassins strong pick potential and 1 v 1, bruisers strong intitation, cc, and decent damage. Play the game smart, know your roles, know your match ups.

Kalista: She's annoying as hell, I've got to admit this one. OP? Nah, I don't think so, maybe a bit. If you're playing against her as an ADC, pick a quick bursty one like lucian, graves, corki. Don't engage in extended fights with her, go in, do so damage, get back out. Don't let her stack rend, ever. Oh and yeah, her rend needs to be gutted on monsters, that's shit's ridiculous.

Leblanc: This bitch.... This is one of the champions I feel is way too slippery for the amount of damage that she puts out, might I add the majority of it is point and click. A dash that she can jump to and back to on a what, 7 second cooldown? An ult that's on one of the lowest CD's in the game that can let her do it again, by the time she's used I believe it's W, and ult, ports back, she can W again. Her passive also while not OP, just adds to the slipperyness. How to deal with her? Play a safe laner, again, lissandra, zed, xerath.

Also, a lot of counters to these assassins that people are CONSTANTLY complaining is the upgrade trinket, yes; for 250 g, you get a free sightstone, all game, without having to take up an item slot. Yet in 95% of my games, in the lobby, I'm the only one who buys it. Why? Dunno, you tell me.

53 Comments

Knight SoIaire 18 votes

why ppl bandwagon on anything that is in lcs ? because lcs players are the best and they get paid to win so whatever is strong and in any way abusable to win is played by them first

from what i know veigar got nerfed because lcs was abusing him as a support who countered all mobile champions and they took him only for that reason, this position allowed his weaknesses to be irrelewant since enemies were just wasting shots on him while his team was using the cage to negate enemy mobility zed is abused for outplay potential and well mana nerf xerath unrivaled safety and mana sustain kalista is hard to catch even if oyu have mobility

basicaly whatever can handle the game best is picked by them ofc some of those champions are hard, and all of them have weaknesses, but if their weaknesses are in any way negated by any mechanic like for instance (zeds lack of mobility is negated by him being able to farm from safe range and lack of resource) then they are going for that pick since it offers much gain while it cant lose as much when doing bad or having a bad matchup

Spacefight0r1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oYiUrxxu,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-03-07T19:38:58.752+0000)

why ppl bandwagon on anything that is in lcs ? because lcs players are the best and they get paid to win so whatever is strong and in any way abusable to win is played by them first

from what i know veigar got nerfed because lcs was abusing him as a support who countered all mobile champions and they took him only for that reason, this position allowed his weaknesses to be irrelewant since enemies were just wasting shots on him while his team was using the cage to negate enemy mobility zed is abused for outplay potential and well mana nerf xerath unrivaled safety and mana sustain kalista is hard to catch even if oyu have mobility

basicaly whatever can handle the game best is picked by them ofc some of those champions are hard, and all of them have weaknesses, but if their weaknesses are in any way negated by any mechanic like for instance (zeds lack of mobility is negated by him being able to farm from safe range and lack of resource) then they are going for that pick since it offers much gain while it cant lose as much when doing bad or having a bad matchup

LCS players use known strong picks for their environment. This means they aren't picking the strongest solo queue champions. They also aren't taking big risks. Heimerdinger has really high win rates in soloqueue and could possibly be strong, but few if any LCS players are going to trot out something unproven on the competitive stage.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

the enviroment is diferent but the rules of picks are very similar, does this champion give more than others while losing less

the diference is that in soloq champ needs to do much by himself while in lcs the champ needs to do much owerall, stuff that is usefull for the game and plays owerall is fawoured here

but those 2 things are very close to eachother

Spacefight0r1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oYiUrxxu,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-03-07T20:32:39.821+0000)

the enviroment is diferent but the rules of picks are very similar, does this champion give more than others while losing less

the diference is that in soloq champ needs to do much by himself while in lcs the champ needs to do much owerall, stuff that is usefull for the game and plays owerall is fawoured here

but those 2 things are very close to eachother

Picks are hugely different. Look at the impact of lane swaps on top lane. A top lane pick isn't viable in LCS unless they can function with a large gold deficit and safely farm in a 1v2.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

well its not like top lane does not need to be safe in solo q

MrBuffington4 votes

I agree with some of what you say, but I don't think Veigar was an example of this. From what I know, the Veigar changes were already basically complete before he ever saw play in LCS; he was changed because of the removal of DFG. What happened is that they ended up massively undertuning his kit, a lot because it's safer than accidentally overtuning his kit (in the former, you gut one champion for a while, where only their playerbase is seriously affected, and in the latter, everyone in the game is suddenly affected by this new OP pick). I think it was largely coincidental that Veigar saw play in LCS around the time his changes hit PBE.

junglerboy161 votes

He was actually a very popular pick in Korea for most of the early season and NA had just barely started catching on by the time the nerf hit PBE.

MrBuffington1 votes

I don't know that I'd call him a very popular pick; I saw him in a few games, sure, but he seemed to fall away after that. If he was really that problematic/abusive/popular, I think Riot would have just flat out number-gutted him immediately until they could rework him, like they did with Soraka mid, etc.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

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junglerboy161 votes

Riot still used it as their excuse anyway, so even if he wasn't as popular as they claim, it is still the "reason" (excuse) for the nerfs.

ChargeItDownMid10 votes

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freeformline1 votes

I won't debate your point about counters and balance, but I would like to hear how you know about the MMR of board-goers. This is, of course, out of curiosity, rather than a need to criticize. I frequent the Tips and Tricks board, so I see a lot of low-MMR and new players, and would like to see how that affects the statistics.

Dengeden1 votes

Any map pressure is countered by warding, sorry. The counters to Lee (a decently bulky front line), Nidalee (dodge ... the ... spears), Zed (ok, tricky, his assassinations can be countered but the shred from his abilities are mage-tier, exhaust is the only answer, m'afraid) are tedious, not impossible, to pull off. In soloQ, you can't rely on people to not make mistakes, that's the problem.

I seriously doubt that the QQ threads are made by competent people. They usually amount to "WTF, can't kill him?! [Insert slanderous assertion about Riot here]".

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

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Dengeden1 votes

So you're just asserting that Zed is better than everything and provide no arguments for it? Kk. Well you're wrong about the early game power at least. That's more or less average. It's his mid game picks and lane pressure that make him OP. I'm uncertain about his late game, it's usually yolo crit Zed that I see, which is fairly unreliable.

IcyPepper7 votes

Except warding.

Really wish people would copy the pros like that, but the support still ends up shafted with the warding (with absolutely no help).

I see maybe one pink ward a game.

Fed by Snu Snu6 votes

Such strong poke should have never been made available to a jungler.

Sincerely, someone who loved the old Nidalee but loves proper balancing more.

In the current meta, getting to low life can be enough to lose a lane.

Spacefight0r3 votes

LeBlanc Claim - Has everything: mobilty, damage, wave clear, cc, safety!

LeBlanc Reality - Tons of mobility, damage and escape but also has weaknesses. Wave clear costs all her mobility (W+ R), wave clear costs her ult, wave clear is point blank and bad in counter siege situations, short range is bad in siege situations, gets wrecked by targeted CC/abilities and ranged marksman autos, brings little utility to team, reliant on good ward coverage to assassinate. Also single defense items such banshees, GA, and Zhonya's are very effective against her. She isn't quite as safe as people lead on either. Her base stats aren't great and the clone from her passive doesn't have items, buffs, or debuffs (so you can pick the right one at a glance).

Main thing about LeBlanc is when she gets the jump on you, you get deleted, and that isn't much fun for the player on the receiving end.

MrBuffington1 votes

Minor typo: her waveclear/mobility is her W, not her Q. Otherwise I agree :)

ForgiveColour3 votes

logic doesnt work in gd m8 its about circlejerk vs circlejerk

Edbwn2 votes

I like your post, but you shouldn't call Nid a trash jungler. All they needed to do was let her Hunt apply to neutral monsters and she can clear the jungle very nicely. Sure, her ganks are almost always failed if she can't land a spear, but I mean some other junglers gank like that too (I have Cho'Gath and his Rupture in mind).

Spacesuit Spiff1 votes

The reason these champs are complained about is that you actually have to play against them specifically, not just go 'hurr durr imma roll my face on the keyboard and cry when I lose'. It's the same reason Fiddles can stomp in soloq if your team forgets he exists and tries to chase someone (caw caw motherfucker).

Kögâ1 votes

I don't have time to tackle everything you said but I'lltry 2, on my phone at the gym doing cardio... The problem with zed isn't his ult mechanics or really anything to do with his ult. His problem is that while his opponents have to account for mana per 5, he can build straight damage and poke safely through minions while some midlaners can't even do that. After poking you down with awesome waveclear, he can then use his ult to towerdive you. That's what gets the most attention but in reality it's how he can get to that point is what is op. Also most midlaners can't afford zhonyas because they have to prioritize sustainable first.

As for lee... He has low damage compared to who? Calculate his ad burst and put it up against other bruisers and even ad assassins and laugh how comparable it is, meanwhile lots of it is aoe and he has mobility + cc to go with it. Hes the ultimate school yard bully. He decides when he wants to fight. You don't get to. If he builds straight damage, he will either shit on you, or if he cant, chances are you won't catch him. Focus him? That means your prioritizing him over adc's and apc's, essentially even if he dies but youve wasted all your cc and burst on him, he's done his job better than any tank would. Probably taking someone with him at the same time. Hope this clears things up.

Drakylon1 votes

The problem with Nidalee isn't her ganking. It's the fact that she can clear jungle insanely quickly, go into her enemy team's jungle and bully the opposing jungler out of it. Add that to her mid-late game where she can chuck spears all day with minor consequences, and virtually make the map 4v5 for a good 20 seconds if one hits.

Neos the Ancient1 votes

The issues are that in order to "counterplay" those champions, you literally have to QUIT PLAYING THE GAME THE WAY IT WAS INTENDED. That's not counterplay, that's complete and totally bullying outside of game mechanics. When a champion PUNISHES YOU FOR PLAYING THE GAME, something is wrong. ie: Braum Shaco Zed Heimerdinger

Realm Down1 votes

heres how you beat a leblanc: pick katarina, play safe until you're 3, avoid her pokes, max your W, push the fuck out of the wave. if she tries to engage you, shunpo to the middle point between her origin and yourself (you can accomplish this while shes mid dash, or you can shunpo to a minion and harrass her) and unload your entire kit on her, avoid her chain, spam laugh as she walks back to her turret at half health. hit six, ignite her, jump on her, blow your ulti, spam laugh while she dies. if she decides she doesn't want to trade with you anymore, just start roaming and wrecking her bot lane while shes under turret with her terrible wave clear. come on people, leblanc is soooo squishy at all stages of the game. you can literally kill her with one rotation of any midlanes kit. you're perfectly safe against a leblanc with anyone who has any kind of mobility and can push a wave. she has terrible farm. make her chose between harassing you and getting cs with her abilities. hell, i've even smashed leblancs before with skillshots champions like lux and morgana. i really don't understand how shes so scary. you just have to know when you're ready to pop her passive and as such, when you can kill her with an aoe or a multi target like katarina's death lotus or lux's e laser combo.

Migrañaboy1 votes

OP "why people bandwagon/cite famous guys"?

Because sheeple need leaders and can't think for themselves, when you want to win a discussion, always use the LCS argument. Have a pic for irony.

SEKAI1 votes

If the game in the highest level of play is the unbalanced piece of crab we see in the LCS,

then that's saying a lot about LoL isn't it.

Yes not everybody is playing in the highest level so we shouldn't really care, that's correct, games being unbalanced in the top tier isn't news.

But when imbalance is physically in-plant into the very foundation of Riot's game balancing with their method of "tier based categorisation balance", the community has every right to be pissed off on that.

TotalJerk1 votes

You really don't see the irony of posting that picture?

Migrañaboy1 votes

{quoted}

You really don't see the irony of posting that picture?

That's rite my boy, that's the intention. It's not the original quota though.

SEKAI1 votes

While **Zed **kinda only gets picked on after the mana regen nerf where all his opponents become weakened so he now has a big edge over everything, but let's not mention his questionable design to have him remain completely safe while 100 - 0 people, which was kept at least on an acceptable level when mana champs weren't in a such disadvantageous position against him unlike now.

**Lee **has always been a problem, his bandwagon has already lasted for literally years and Riot did absolutely nothing to Properly address it, we got 2 letdown teasers and that's pretty much it, nothing.

Lee Sin: Play safe early, don't overextend. Don't let him snowball lanes and he falls off quick.

First, he doesn't fall off in the grand scheme of things, that's a myth now only because he used to during S2. Secondly, his "early" lasts all the way to lvl 7 or 8, are you telling me to have the entire team do NOTHING other than farming and getting poked under turret for 8 - 10 minute of every game when Lee is in it? This is no counter play, this is forking ridiculous to suggest this as a counter measure to 1 single champion.

**Kat **and **Akali **got flamed because well, they're designed with binary results so you expect this kind of things.

**Yasuo **isn't as bad as before, but he was really broken so some people hold grudges against him, pretty reasonable.

Nidalee. It's easy to say "hey just avoid or stay behind minions", yes, but when she does land 1 you're fking dead (unless you're closer to your turret so you can back off, then you have to choose between dancing under turret and get destroyed or lose a ton of cs). Why should I get punished severely for making 1 single mistake when she gets rewarded on the same scale for landing 1 single skill shot out of how many before that she missed? How is this fair? It isn't, simple. She has a no resource and spammable escape too, and a heal just to make things worse.

Vi's problem is not her 1v1 but her initiation. There is really nothing to play smart when her ulti is single target the does everything automatically for you with 1 single click. Still most people find her trouble now is due to her actually being able to stand in the new jungle without getting her teeth knocked out. S5 jungle is atrocious in being accessible to most champs.

**Kalista **is a problem because first her rend being a major issue, secondly her passive would work PERFECTLY if she was made an April Fools champ release as a Riot's self joke on their pro scene, it's that bad. The problem people really see in Kalista is Riot's complete deviation from the very design philosophy they themselves set up, she is overloaded, she is infinitely mobile, she does tons of damage and she is designed by CertainlyT, who does nothing besides making questionable champs.

Leblanc, out of your 3 suggestions, 2 are complete cancers. You see the problem with her now? She like those 2 out of 3 suggestions, are too useful while being too safe. Xerath isn't inherently an issue since he has 0 mobility and a shiet easy to dodge single target strong cc with quite a high cd, the only thing he has going for him is pretty much his long range. LB has 100 - 0, toggle long range escape and a clones to make it even more unbearable. Ofc she gets hated because the concept itself is pushing the anger tolerance of any player playing against her.

Also, a lot of counters to these assassins that people are CONSTANTLY complaining is the upgrade trinket

I fail to see how wards are counters to assassins, a good vision counters everything so it's pretty pointless to say it's a "counter champion" option, more like "counter strategy".

Kuroi861 votes

but let's not mention his questionable design to have him remain completely safe while 100 - 0 people

Actually, lets mention this. Because it's a very one sided argument that needs to be put to bed. If Zed pulls off a 100-0 on you, not only is he insanely fed (like two items and three levels ahead of you) but obviously your ping is so high that you lag out and see nothing for a full five seconds while he uses his full combo on you.

lasts all the way to lvl 7 or 8, are you telling me to have the entire team do NOTHING other than farming and getting poked under turret for 8 - 10 minute of every game when Lee is in it? This is no counter play, this is forking ridiculous to suggest this as a counter measure to 1 single champion.

No, your weaker laners need to hang back and focus on csing. If your bot lane isn't the strongest early on, then they should be pushing onto the enemies tower every chance they get. Meanwhile, if you're playing a strong laner (I often see this when I play Renekton top) then Lee Sin ganking your lane is pretty much an exercise in futility on his part as the two of them together won't be able to kill you unless he's got ult, and by then you're either ahead or behind and should be playing as such.

Why should I get punished severely for making 1 single mistake when she gets rewarded on the same scale for landing 1 single skill shot out of how many before that she missed? How is this fair?

Welcome to what is in essence the highest level of play. It's not about outplaying your opponent, it's about who capitalizes on the first mistake. If you know Nid is wanting to camp you, ward up and laugh as she keeps chucking spears and you keep dodging them while still csing because her camping you puts her and her mid laner behind. Now when your jungle comes up, you capitalize on their mistake and both walk away with kills.

she does tons of damage

Not early on Kali doesn't. Truthfully she's horrible until she either gets kills or gets runaan's, and from the looks of things, her runaan's build is getting nerfed soon.

SEKAI1 votes

You do realise Zed has a slow (after you flash/dash away he lands a w and e then switch places so he is next to you again) and can cast BotRK on top of it right? And he doesn't need to be insanely fed to kill you, his ulti ensures that.

That's what I was saying, for 1 single champion, you need the entire team go into certain action, sacrificing the first 1/3 of the game entirely just for this 1 guy. This is not balance, at all. Even Nasus, one of the hardest scaling guy in the entire game, only needs 2 jungle gank to ensure his total failure, or Yi which you only need to save 1 cc for him during TF, then you're asking for THIS level of strategy cooperation on this 1 guy, completely disregarding all other champs need for maybe early kills or lane pressures against other parts of the enemy team. This is completely and utterly ridiculous. If you're playing a stronger lane, Lee won't visit you until he has ulti, which in this case you only make your other lanes suffer more in the early stage of the game, which is stupid.

It's not like he falls off TERRIBLY like Shaco either, he still has his forking annoying 0 counterplay ulti to keep your attention after his "power spike" has passed, and %hp damage.

highest level of play. It's not about outplaying your opponent, it's about who capitalizes on the first mistake

Welcome to balance where risk and reward is supposedly kept under check. If your reward simply comes from landing 1 single skill shot, letting the enemies who dodged 20 go completely unrewarded, and punish him for making 1 single mistake after being mentally exhausted by dying, losing tons of cs or both. Does this sound balanced or fair to you? It sure doesn't for me at all.

Kalista's objective control is unparalleled and is frankly, broken, it can be easily fixed but they don't care I guess. And her passive.

Kuroi861 votes

You do realise Zed has a slow (after you flash/dash away he lands a w and e then switch places so he is next to you again) and can cast BotRK on top of it right? And he doesn't need to be insanely fed to kill you, his ulti ensures that.

Because all Zeds start the game with Bork and his ult not only grants CC immunity but also deals 100% of your max hp as true damage.

That's what I was saying, for 1 single champion, you need the entire team go into certain action, sacrificing the first 1/3 of the game entirely just for this 1 guy. This is not balance, at all. Even Nasus, one of the hardest scaling guy in the entire game, only needs 2 jungle gank to ensure his total failure, or Yi which you only need to save 1 cc for him during TF, then you're asking for THIS level of strategy cooperation on this 1 guy, completely disregarding all other champs need for maybe early kills or lane pressures against other parts of the enemy team. This is completely and utterly ridiculous. If you're playing a stronger lane, Lee won't visit you until he has ulti, which in this case you only make your other lanes suffer more in the early stage of the game, which is stupid.

OMG! You mean people actually have to use strategy instead of jumping around acting like this is an FPS? Holy crap that's broken, nerf it into the ground!

It's not like he falls off TERRIBLY like Shaco either, he still has his forking annoying 0 counterplay ulti to keep your attention after his "power spike" has passed, and %hp damage.

That ulti, is typically how he avoids dying to a fed Renekton, even after he's tried ganking me. And that % health damage, will deal approximately 100 damage per every 1250 hp you are MISSING, and this is before throwing armor into the equation! Lee is good, but you're seriously overestimating him.

Welcome to balance where risk and reward is supposedly kept under check. If your reward simply comes from landing 1 single skill shot, letting the enemies who dodged 20 go completely unrewarded, and punish him for making 1 single mistake after being mentally exhausted by dying, losing tons of cs or both. Does this sound balanced or fair to you? It sure doesn't for me at all.

So basically you can screw up lane and still think you should be immune to being ganked? Because sure as heck, even with Nid throwing spears, it's possible to stay alive and CS if you're warded up and not shoving lane. If you're that far behind, Nid is the least of your problems.

Kalista's objective control is unparalleled and is frankly, broken, it can be easily fixed but they don't care I guess. And her passive.

Because only Cho'Gath and Nunu should have objective control? Also, her passive isn't really impressive unless you make the mistake of running up to her from up lane. Most junglers are going to be on top of her before she even realizes what is going on, I mean crap gap closers aren't exactly limited to Lee Sin and Amumu for crying out loud.

SEKAI1 votes

I don't think mashing 2 buttons and 1 aa after casting ulti to ensure a kill is that much different from that. Still his 1 shot isn't the main issue, it is that he 100-0 while remaining completely safe and the fact all his opponents are weakened.

You missed the point, strategy against 1 single champion shouldn't be big enough for the team to abandon all 5 people's 1/3 of the entire game every match while he Still continues to be a high quality pest and irreplaceable asset for the enemy after his prime has supposedly passed, that's not fair, at all. This is also tied to the Nid's issue, he is too rewarding while being too forgiving.

The magnitude of the rewards Ned gets does not equal to the amount of effort she needs to put in, nor is her punishment value the same as her reward's with an inversed sign. As I said above, she and Lee shares the same overall problem, the risk is too low for their overwhelming reward.

Cho's objective control only comes after 6, Nunu while has undeniably strong objective control, yes. But with a few items in (attacks faster so it stacks faster but that thing has infinite stack which is not fair in any shape, or form) Kalista can be on par with Nunu and Cho in terms of securing while she IS NOT meant to be designed as a jungler who SPECIALISES in that. Why as a side bonus she gets to perform the job of securing junglers on the same level and even have access to a lite version of that since lvl 1 like Nunu?

And yes Riot thought of the weakness on her passive so they also made counter measures for that, by giving her free scouting tools, brilliant I suppose. You will need to gank more than once every 45 seconds AS THE LOWEST BENCHMARK to even think about getting her, yep. Totally I want to live in bot lane I guess. And once you get to her, she has her passive.

Kuroi861 votes

I don't think mashing 2 buttons and 1 aa after casting ulti to ensure a kill is that much different from that. Still his 1 shot isn't the main issue, it is that he 100-0 while remaining completely safe and the fact all his opponents are weakened.

Except anyone that has ever played Zed will tell you he can only 100-0 if he's ahead. Otherwise you HAVE to have your opponent below 1/3 health in order to secure that first kill without assistance. Also note he's not immune to damage, if you turn and burst him, he's going to feel it. The only way Zed is completely safe is if you either freeze up for the entirety of the trade or just flail wildly and miss EVERYTHING. Safe? What part of having to be within melee range for nearly three seconds to get off the bulk of your damage is safe?

You missed the point, strategy against 1 single champion shouldn't be big enough for the team to abandon all 5 people's 1/3 of the entire game every match while he Still continues to be a high quality pest and irreplaceable asset for the enemy after his prime has supposedly passed, that's not fair, at all. This is also tied to the Nid's issue, he is too rewarding while being too forgiving.

If your team is all late game champs, then you really screwed up in champ select. I've not seen any pro advice a late game team comp, you typically want a mix of strengths.
Forgiving? You do realize he needs more than Hydra to actually deal decent damage right? This means if he builds to actually deal decent damage, he's going to be squishy and again, the bulk of his damage is dealt at melee range. If he builds tank, he's got great utility, but his damage will be negligible and he won't get kills without assistance.

The magnitude of the rewards Ned gets does not equal to the amount of effort she needs to put in, nor is her punishment value the same as her reward's with an inversed sign. As I said above, she and Lee shares the same overall problem, the risk is too low for their overwhelming reward.

Are you kidding me? The bulk of her damage and gap closing ability rely on her hitting a slow, narrow skill shot. Unless you fail to ward your lane or out right just run into the javelin then she needs to know how to lead her target and even then there's the chance for you to dodge. There's a reason her clear is left as good as it is, it's because her ganks are lackluster and pretty much rely on the enemy laner making a massive mistake.

And yes Riot thought of the weakness on her passive so they also made counter measures for that, by giving her free scouting tools, brilliant I suppose. You will need to gank more than once every 45 seconds AS THE LOWEST BENCHMARK to even think about getting her, yep.

Yes, because Kalista is totally manaless.

Oh, wait!

SEKAI1 votes

As I said, his issues now mostly stems from his design philosophy and mana regen nerfs.

For Lee, how many actually can even stand a chance against him early? That is why your early is pretty much destined to be dominated just because enemy team picks Lee, and he will continue too annoy the shiet out of you even after his prime time has passed. And if he is fed? GG. He has high base stats, medium to high ad scaling, high survivability and cc by default, trade off? Yeah his late is quite weak when compared to his early. That is shietty design. And don't forget, that's just 1 single champion which you need the entire team to be *active *in playing against. His team also has 4 others to deal with. How is this fair?

Not the entire game happens in lanes. If you're in jungle and met her, Nid WILL hit you, it's only a matter of time, and you WILL die. Fun? Hell no. Oh she is caught, unless you completely cc lockdown her otherwise she would just "hop ho hop cya nerds" and there is nothing you can do about it. And when you do run all of your cc onto her face and she's dead, gl with the rest of her team.

To give you an idea, completely without taking runes, masteries and her Rend's mana refound into account, Kalista at lvl 3 can do a full rotation of QWE once and wait for 4 seconds or so to use another E. I wouldn't say her mana is all that punishing, it's still pretty plentiful, for an adc as long as she doesn't just spam it and use refills.

Kuroi861 votes

all I see is the same complaints about the exact same champs every single day, I don't understand so if someone can please explain to me

They're popular, they're strong, they're versatile.
So obviously people want them gutted so that their mains will now be the top of the food chain instead of actually learning how to deal with said champs. Because HEY, why bother improving as a player when you can blame it on, "OMG champ op!"

MrSlowDie1 votes

{quoted} Lee Sin-----The claim: Omg OP, kit overloaded such damage, such cc, much wow. Too mobile omg

Lee Sin-----The reality: Where's the dude strongest at? Early game, strong early ganks. IF A JUNGLER HAS A STRONG EARLY GAME THEN PLAY SAFE, DON'T PUSH TO TURRET. "Wow dude gg lee sin op, ganks at lvl 3, damage op execute q wow." I never understood why people say lee sin does damage, ever. The dude literally falls off so had even after just buying a warden's mail. He either builds full damage and gets blown up trying to insec dive, or builds a hydra and does mediocre damage after early. His ult is strong but in no way OP, at all.

you can't deny it?

Katarina----The claim: WTF seriously Kat penta so OP much damage wtf?

Katarina----The reality: Her early game and laning phase is trash. You ping she's gone, don't push the lane. Your team has ANY type of lock-down cc you make her useless. She relies on snowballing and if you she doesn't, she's useless.

yeah katarina get QQ'ed in GD, so what? people whine about kat because experience. Many of my friends say she is a pain in the ass, even though they never go to forum and see kat QQ thread in GD.

She is hard to deal in low elo (well she get positive WR in diamond too). Splitpush rarely done and rarely success in low ELO. They always group 5 and teamfight. In low elo teamfight coordination is bad. You can even see people post picture of teamfight and put "I don't know where my champ is" line on it. Their lack of skill make kat strong, and you can't force that high number of people to your level.

Reality : kat is dominating low elo. And by low elo I mean vast majority of LoL players Some will reach the point where they can easily deal with kat. But many won't

Hard Penetrator1 votes

That's pretty easy.

Its weekend and there is no school.

Levyathyn1 votes

Diana counters almost all of the champions to some degree.

Athenes Lulu1 votes

Thresh and Janna, please.

Also, Lulu top.

Rivini1 votes

They think that if they pick the same champions and follow the same builds to a T, they are guaranteed to win. It's on auto-pilot, so no skill involved.

hi im otter1 votes

Do you think this is unique to league of legends? People parrot others' words when they cannot or will not think for themselves.

Not to mention the high learning curve for this game making it difficult for your average player to analyse very much.

Smitty Manjensen1 votes

Weird that you talk about what is reality while being in bronze max silver, I sound like a dbag but it's the reality, I don't talk out of my ass claiming something, most of the champs you mentioned are toxic and are proven to be toxic, best example is the Karthus game against Zed. Karthus won against only with Lee's help while zed still splitpushed with ease taking an inhibitor. GD tends to exaggerate things but there is definitely a reason why the're QQ'ed so much about.

SecretAgentHulk1 votes

I hope that after last night's Team Impulse vs Cloud9 game, people realize that Zed isn't as BS as he's made out to be (buhbuhbut it's different in gold/silver/bronze/wood).

Also the third time I ever played mid was last week, and I picked Lissandra into Kat (more because I was last pick and don't have many midlaners but Liss is fun top, anyway) and proceeded to kick her ass until I started feeding :(

Also thanks for the Zed tips!

MarkedOfKane1 votes

Full damage lee doesn't die trying to insec. He doesn't even insec because he outright kills the target

QQEHydraRW

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