ADC's will never have good itemization as long as Infinity edge is in its current state.

HandheldBrandon·Jan 16, 2015·6 votes·1,403 views

Seriously IE/Statikk shiv is core on every ADC build.

The reason for this is because its flat out better than just flat AD. Until Flat AD is given something that can compare to the burst that Infinity edge provides on sustained damage flat AD will always be left in the dust.

28 Comments

disregardableJan 16, 20152 votes

You know, because item 3089 item 3165 isn't core on every mage...oh wait...

HandheldBrandonJan 16, 20153 votes

Because how many AP options do they have?

item 3174 item 3504 item 3128 item 3151 item 3100 item 3041 item 3165 item 3089 item 3027 item 3116 item 3040 item 3023 item 3135 item 3157

Every single one of those gets used in one build or another. But i guarantee you will see every ADC with pretty much the same items every time.

ModThe DjinnJan 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}> Every single one of those gets used in one build or another. But i guarantee you will see every ADC with pretty much the same items every time.

There's a pretty explainable reason for this, and I think it has less to do with AP itemization and more to do with the difference between AP and AD characters.

AP characters almost always have a lot more utility to them than AP characters. You'll note that those who don't (like Fizz, for example) tend to have builds almost as static as those of ADCs: most Fizz players on ProBuilds go Zhonya's + Lichbane + Rabadon's + Void Staff + DFG, and that build is consistent almost across the board (in the last 20 games on ProBuilds.net there was only a single occurrence of another item [Abyssal Sceptre], aside from the single Trinity Force build).

ADCs and characters like Fizz exist to deal damage: it's basically all they're around for. They bring very little utility, and very little flexibility: either they're dealing massive damage, or they're useless.

For AP, this means Zhonya's / Deathfire / Rabadon's / Void Staff (a common core on heavy damage AP characters). For AD, this means IE + Shiv (or Phantom Dancer, especially given the lastest tweaks). ADCs are also designed with multiplicative damage: you need both AD and crit to deal massive damage. That's a balancing point that's necessary to avoid characters like Riven, Talon, and Pantheon getting out of control with their high flat AD scaling.

In short, if you DO introduce such an item, ADCs will simply replace part of their build with the new item, and huge-ratio flat AD characters (Zed, Riven, Talon, Pantheon) will start getting really out of control.

If you want to diversify AD builds, it's less a matter of making IE competitors and more a matter of introducing more utility and flexibility into the ADC role, so that IE becomes (like Rabadon's) the go-to "maximize my damage" item, but that less, non-damage-maximizing approaches are considered equally valid.

HandheldBrandonJan 16, 20151 votes

I liked reading your post but i have to disagree slightly on the last part. IMO the only way to diversify ADC builds is to give a diverse amount of options. As of right now Crit chance and Infinity edge are the most Valuable stats and item on any physical damage dealer. They are far more valuable in effectiveness compared to flat AD and give a far bigger boost damage wise. Having a ton of AD VS a ton of crit chance should be something thats debated especially on Caster champs (IE Varus, Sivir, Graves) who do more damage with abilities than with auto attacks. However because of the way crit is right now Graves and Varus and Sivir will always do more if not the same amount of damage with IE and crit chance than they will with flat AD.

Honestly we have a champion who has a ton of Utility Ashe and look where she is now. All her Utility is her ultimate. It used to be her ability to permakite and her ability to set up a teamfight however with league of dashes and blinks she completely lost part of her utility and now completely relies on her ult for the major part of it. She is by far the weakest of the ADC's atm.

disregardableJan 16, 20155 votes

You know what they are?

item 3153 item 3031 item 3046 item 3087 item 3142 item 3035 item 3072 item 3508 item 3139 item 3172 item 3156 item 3078 item 3071 item 3085

that's like, as many as the AP items :o

HandheldBrandonJan 16, 20153 votes

Yea and how many of those truly get used in every single build.

item 3153 item 3031 item 3035 item 3072 item 3087

Those Items (with the exception of bortk and bloodthirster one or the other being used) is all ADCs use.

90 Adcs builds will look like this.

item 3035 item 3006 item 3031 item 3087 item 3072 item 3026

That is the PRIMARY ADC build there is little to no deviation with exception of a few champions opting for Bortk or trinity force. There is no other options if you want to be competitive as Flat ADC will 90 percent of the time be beat out by crit.

disregardableJan 16, 20152 votes

item 3089 item 3157 item 3135 item 3128 item 3165

These items is all AP mages use.

HandheldBrandonJan 16, 20151 votes

That might be what you use in bronze but where i am at and the people i play against and with all use a diverse amount of builds.

Honestly i rarely see a void staff any more because DFG negates the need for one in the league of assassins.

Demonsolder21Jan 16, 20152 votes

DFG has been removed

NielarkenJan 17, 20151 votes

item 3116 item 3151 item 3157 item 3089 item 3135 item 3152 item 3100 Anivia Cassiopeia Vladimir Viktor did you call us?

WooBeeWooJan 16, 20151 votes

Its good they are changing stuff because its super lame that every adc has the 5 main items with basically no deviation or decision making in the build at all. Also IE is a bullshit item and needed nerfed adcs are just fine with that change.

Knight SoIaire Jan 17, 20151 votes

riot didnt realy change anything in regards of their item choices they just buffed the adc's that worked better with ie+pd while nerfing everyone else (static shiw users and trinity carreis, gp trynda and yasuo prolly master yi)

Knight DevoutJan 16, 20151 votes

item 3085 really?

disregardableJan 16, 20159 votes

He included item 3504 . I can include Runaans.

Kitten of EvilJan 17, 20151 votes

I've seen Kalistas use it.

Knight DevoutJan 17, 20151 votes

Me too, they all failed.

OrbvJan 16, 20151 votes

To be fair, a lot of those cannot be combined. Like a champion who gets item 3023 isn't going to be getting item 3100 . And item 3041 isn't even realistically an item people get. item 3141 never shows up in anyone's lists :(

But yes there is more variety for AP. On AP Cho I go item 3116 item 3089 item 3157 item 3100 , which is completely different from my Vladamir build.

Crit is a major issue, at least the rng aspect of it.

Social Justice 1Jan 16, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Seriously IE/Statikk shiv is core on every ADC build.

Ezreal item 3042 item 3078 ???? Corki item 3153 ???? Kalista item 3085 item 3072 ???? Twitch item 3142 ???? Sivir item 3031 ????

HandheldBrandonJan 16, 20151 votes

Dont even mention the hurricane on kalista.

The build is fun but puts you so far behind in damage against the other adc (who is most likely rushing IE) that they will bully you completely out of lane. Also the only person i have ever seen build a ghostblade on Sivir is captain Jack and hes the only one.

ZeroAnarchyJan 17, 20151 votes

Wrong, the problem with the hurricane build, which Sneaky has been using, is that if you are behind in the laning phase, it is really lack luster, however if you are ahead that build is complete god mode. Even if the enemy ADC built the normal IE+Shiv you will still out damage them by far.

BeersteinJan 16, 20152 votes

Don't forget Quinn item 3078 item 3153 ????

That said she tends to be a much better solo top laner than an ADC, and is good for trying to pick enemy adcs than dps enemies.

GanksLikeGast0nJan 16, 20151 votes

And KogMaw item 3078 item 3153

FluppetsJan 16, 20151 votes

ADC's dont have a varied itemization is because it's a very singular role. Damage, damage and more damage.

Ofcourse flat AD will be left in the dust, that doesn't make any sense, you will always get crit on an ADC because it allows you to scale into the late-game. Marksmen that dont need crit have some form of true or %hp damage.

A larger problem is Statik Shyv because it allows some ADC's to overcome waveclear issues that should be inherent to their strenghts and weaknesses.

Kitten of EvilJan 17, 20151 votes

I think they're trying to make Shiv the go-to "waveclear" item instead of a core item for any crit-building ADC. That was my reading of their patch notes, anyway.

HandheldBrandonJan 17, 20151 votes

I agree Statikk shiv gives waveclear to those who dont have it. But it also increases the wave clear of those who do have it (IE Sivir, Varus, ETC) It also gives them a little mixed damage. But still Flat damage should be an option to those who would use it better. Someone like Graves and Sivir and Varus who focus on damage through abilities should be able to make better use of Flat AD but instead they are forced to rely on Infinity Edge and crit chance to help them out. Alot of the pure flat AD items go better on most bruisers like item 3071 would probably be a decent item on someone like Graves but its stats favor a fighter more than a adc Caster because atm Crit is king. It would also help to truly diversify builds.

RebonackJan 16, 20151 votes

It's less an issue with Infinity Edge itself and more an issue with Crit being broken as balls.

Look at how many AD and/or IAS items have Crit. It's nearly all of them. The only real exception to this rule is AD/Lifesteal items.

Kuroi86Jan 16, 20152 votes

With crit item 3031 item 3087 item 3046 item 3078 item 3142

Without crit item 3072 item 3153 item 3508 item 3156 item 3139 item 3035 item 3085 item 3172 The problem is, without critical strike, you gimp yourself as an ADC. =/

ArknaJan 16, 20151 votes

It's because the role of an ADC is to spit out as much ranged damage as you humanly can with low cool down targeted spells (auto attacks). The standard ADC is generally the most mathematically efficient way of doing so without giving much up on the way there. Unless you either stick crit on everything or remove it completely, it will always beat out it's contenders given the psuedo-rng that league uses.