Please dont nerf Annie

Fadedpf·Jan 16, 2015·54 votes·11,528 views

"Annie is another story. We're working through some changes that can make her still feel good about bursting people without so heavily relying on "drop Tibbers, cast spells, enemy explodes" pattern."

Annies cast tibbers and watch enemies explode is her trademark.. she has low movement and no escapes so its not like its easy to get fed. Otherwise she would be in every game like this guy . Playing smart with a and using TEAMWORK to win with Annie is better then DFG and explode things imo. Dont nerf her Rito

95 Comments

Serenity NowJan 16, 201513 votes

I'm glad they're finally doing this.

With her passive up, she zones all but long range mages in mid, and is totally obnoxious in bot. Without constant jungle pressure, you either lose farm or you eat the stun and a full rotation of her abilities.

Annie is one of the original champions, and breaks a fundamental design rule to not combine hard CC and burst damage in the same kit. IMO, she can be fixed by replacing her stun with a slow, and letting it scale somehow with levels or marks.

AbyssphereJan 16, 20157 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serenity Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oVq68bmd,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-01-16T13:20:29.272+0000)

I'm glad they're finally doing this.

With her passive up, she zones all but long range mages in mid, and is totally obnoxious in bot.

Without constant jungle pressure, you either lose farm or you eat the stun and a full rotation of her abilities.

From mid game on, Tibbers is up for EVERY skirmish or fight because the CD is crazy low for such a strong ult.

Annie is one of the original champions, and breaks a fundamental design rule to not combine hard CC and burst damage in the same kit.

I don't see how hard CC and burst are not meant to be in the same kit? You see it with a lot more champions than Ahri, some of which are very recent. As far as I know you're just not meant to combine hard CC, burst AND mobility and Annie famously has none of the latter.

SaixosJan 16, 20152 votes

I would say don't combine hard CC and burst on an onhit ability. Annie's Q is the one problem I have with her, I can't dodge it or do anything, if I get in range I get stunned and take massive damage.

DengedenJan 16, 20154 votes

She moves up to Q and you walk away. Not much of a problem in lane unless she already has an advantage. It's just problematic for our ADC overlords and other point and clickers who eat a Q if they stand still to get off damage.

UltîmaJan 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

She moves up to Q and you walk away. Not much of a problem in lane unless she already has an advantage. It's just problematic for our ADC overlords and other point and clickers who eat a Q if they stand still to get off damage.

Her Q has such a low cooldown... even if she uses it for farming it would be incredibly easy for her to reliably punish anyone who tries to exploit that tiny window of opportunity to farm or harass.

I don't mind Annie having a stun, but Twisted Fate's W duration was lowered significantly because it allowed him to zone people in lane too easily with Yellow Card. Annie's passive should be reworked so that she can't dangle an insta-kill symbol over an ADC in bot lane forever and deny them farm indefinitely.

DengedenJan 16, 20153 votes

Except this doesn't have anything to do with what I said

She moves up to Q and you walk away.

TF can still Wild Card the wave, Annie has nothing but autos if she doesn't want to waste her stun on creeps. Kind of a weird scenario: APC is alone with the ADC, why would that ever happen? (Anyway, my implication was that everyone hates how strong ADCs are. If Annie can make their day worse, then more power to her, right? ^)

RagingStormXJan 17, 20151 votes

Support Annie.

TaylorGaylorJan 16, 201512 votes

Many mages have CC AND burst. Someone already mentioned Ahri and I would like to add Lussandra to thst list. Annie in no way deserves to be nerfed. if you are getting wrecked by Annie then maybe you should play her a few times again and rediscover how easy she is to shut down. She is incredibly balanced as is. She has almost no range and no escapes.

N00BC8K3Jan 16, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Many mages have CC AND burst. Someone already mentioned Ahri and I would like to add Lussandra to thst list. Annie in no way deserves to be nerfed. if you are getting wrecked by Annie then maybe you should play her a few times again and rediscover how easy she is to shut down. She is incredibly balanced as is. She has almost no range and no escapes.

thank you :) that's my hole point.

Bouffon dAnglaisJan 16, 20157 votes

Whole*

I'm so sorry. I had to. It's stronger than me.

Yandere CarryJan 16, 20154 votes

According to the annie-only player "Annie Bot".. She isn't balanced.

This is me paraphrasing, but I will keep it as accurate as I can remember.

"A lot of people don't play annie mid because she doesn't have long range spells, but I honestly think Annie is op. If you know how to play her, she can instantly kill you and has absolutely no counterplay."

N00BC8K3Jan 16, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tang Bohu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oVq68bmd,comment-id=000200010001,timestamp=2015-01-16T16:58:02.451+0000)

According to the annie-only player "Annie Bot".. She isn't balanced.

This is me paraphrasing, but I will keep it as accurate as I can remember.

"A lot of people don't play annie mid because she doesn't have long range spells, but I honestly think Annie is op. If you know how to play her, she can instantly kill you and has absolutely no counterplay."

She has counter play, yes she can burst you down in less the a second but you can 1 hit her no problem. She has shit range for a mage and she has no escape. If you know how Annie is played you shouldn't have a problem with her.

WhereTheNamesAtJan 16, 20156 votes

Wait. So you are gonna argue against a Master Tier player who has over 3000+ games on Annie and say she doesn't have counterplay??? Also you never one shot Annie because most build Rod of Ages and her E makes her considerably tanking for a mage.

Yandere CarryJan 17, 20153 votes

{quoted}

She has counter play, yes she can burst you down in less the a second but you can 1 hit her no problem. She has shit range for a mage and she has no escape. If you know how Annie is played you shouldn't have a problem with her.

Sounds like you should go tell Annie Bot he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Ánnîe Jan 16, 201510 votes

I don't think they intend on nerfing her but changing her ult so less power is in the initial drop of tibbers and more power into tibbers himself as a sort of summon. i'm not positive on that but that's the general idea i have of what they want to change about annie.

ThryaleJan 16, 201517 votes

the best change for her ult? Give it travel time like they did for corki's Q. That way, she loses none of her burst dmg, but ppl can actually react to her stupid "insta stun entire team the moment I push R"

There's a reason amumu is "almost prom king"

tibbers took his place

Sightless66Jan 16, 201539 votes

Ah yes, the famous "shift the damage into the unreliable aspect of the skill and say it isn't a nerf" nerf. Gotta love it.

Painted CeltJan 17, 20152 votes

Nailed it.

j jJan 16, 20151 votes

Basically so tibbers gets smited more and you give the team 50 gold even more so? Tibbers is a huge draw back as a skill already if you let the enemy kill tibbers...

rinsujoJan 16, 20156 votes

If the enemy is killing tibbers, you know who they're not killing? Anyone on my team. They want to kill tibbers be my guest.

googly4646Jan 17, 20151 votes

Dude? It is definitley a huge nerf if you realized that is the greatest burst combo that Annie has got going for her at the moment. Without dfg and that insane combo, Annie will be a unreliable champion.

Gym Leader YakiJan 16, 20157 votes

{quoted}

"Annie is another story. We're working through some changes that can make her still feel good about bursting people without so heavily relying on "drop Tibbers, cast spells, enemy explodes" pattern."

Annies cast tibbers and watch enemies explode is her trademark.. she has low movement and no escapes so its not like its easy to get fed. Otherwise she would be in every game like this guy . Playing smart with a and using TEAMWORK to win with Annie is better then DFG and explode things imo. Dont nerf her Rito

Agreed. I would rather see other champions buffed/fixed like Urgot, Galio, and so many more that need serious attention. Annie isn't even that popular and her kit is what makes her "her".

Major SparklesJan 17, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wow cc nub,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oVq68bmd,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-01-16T13:08:15.191+0000)

Agreed. I would rather see other champions buffed/fixed like Urgot, Galio, and so many more that need serious attention. Annie isn't even that popular and her kit is what makes her "her".

what's wrong with galio. :*(

OleandervineJan 16, 20155 votes

Riot picks who to nerf with a dart board composed of Sona, Irelia, and a tiny tiny center that has all of the other 120 or so champs. Lee Sin is on the butt of the darts in case one of them is so lucky as to actually land a dart on a dart.

CondottieroJan 16, 20155 votes

I have an idea of what the changes (nerfs) are going to be like if they go through.

Passive changed into a slow because targeted stuns are anti fun, toxic, and lack counterplay Q changed into a skillshot for more "counterplay" W no longer instant (think Gnar W) E completely changed because it "doesn't fit her theme" R no longer instant (Corki Q)

All AP ratios nerfed to below 0.5 All base damage nerfed to below 200 Random linking of abilities for more "interactivity"

Edit: Apparently people can't see the sarcasm in my post.

FadedpfJan 16, 20152 votes

Get out

PastramkaJan 17, 20151 votes

I hope u are wrong

PastramkaJan 16, 20154 votes

Riot dont touch Annie PLS!

Jeddy017Jan 16, 20155 votes

Yeah,she's only 8.Wait 10 years 1st.

googly4646Jan 16, 20153 votes

This Riot always about balancing the game instead of fixing the game. I am having firewall error since the last week after the champ select and they have done nothing to fix that. Now they want to nerf annie lol. Clapping Riot's idiocacy.

TaylorGaylorJan 16, 20152 votes

I wonder if Annie and your FIREwall issues are somehow related.

WheatloafJan 16, 20153 votes

How I understood the discussion on Annie after DFG removal wasn't that she was getting nerfed, but that the compensation buffs she'll be getting simply won't go to her 100-0 burst pattern... I might have read it wrong, though.

MannysmokerJan 16, 20153 votes

I hope you're joking Annie fcking broken champion, with a spammable stun for 2 seconds , point and click abilities, insane Ap% scaling when all the abilities has 80% excepting the shield which is 20%, has literally a free spell if you kill an unit, reconsider your opinion sir, Annie needs to be tuned down. item 3128 is an unhealthy item for the game, when champs like Ahri Annie Veigar use it.

And don't be another of those that want to solve of the problems saying Zed is OP and stuff like those..

CrownsyJan 16, 20158 votes

{quoted}

I hope you're joking fcking broken champion, with a spammable stun for 2 seconds , point and click abilities, insane Ap% scaling when all the abilities has 80% excepting the shield which is 20%, has literally a free spell if you kill an unit, reconsider your opinion sir, needs to be tuned down. is an unhealthy item for the game, when champs like use them.

first of all, it isn't "spamable" you have to cast 4 spells. And it has a huge visual indicator. She can't use her Q to farm in mid if she holds the stun, so all you do is back up and wait. The only people I dominate in mid are melee assassin (which is the real reason she's "in line for a change!" she's become a counter pick to Yas, Akali, and Zed, can't have #LCSBIGPLAYS!! countered by a mage) or mages who are dumb enough to walk up to their minions to farm.

Second, it isn't a "two second stun!" until very late game. they nerfed it like 6 months ago to be scaling. it's a low time stun early.

She's also very vulnerable pre 6, but people don't push enough when her stun is down. IF your going to let her free farm to 6 and not force her to make a decision, then yes, you are in trouble once she gets tibbers after 6 levels of free farm.

In bot, there's even less excuse, she has to telegraph so hard she's coming for a Q stun that you are seriously not paying attention if she hits one. Just back off and poke.

RyelzJan 17, 20153 votes

{quoted}

first of all, it isn't "spamable" you have to cast 4 spells. And it has a huge visual indicator. She can't use her Q to farm in mid if she holds the stun, so all you do is back up and wait. The only people I dominate in mid are melee assassin (which is the real reason she's "in line for a change!" she's become a counter pick to Yas, Akali, and Zed, can't have #LCSBIGPLAYS!! countered by a mage) or mages who are dumb enough to walk up to their minions to farm.

Second, it isn't a "two second stun!" until very late game. they nerfed it like 6 months ago to be scaling. it's a low time stun early.

She's also very vulnerable pre 6, but people don't push enough when her stun is down. IF your going to let her free farm to 6 and not force her to make a decision, then yes, you are in trouble once she gets tibbers after 6 levels of free farm.

In bot, there's even less excuse, she has to telegraph so hard she's coming for a Q stun that you are seriously not paying attention if she hits one. Just back off and poke.

Well I main Vayne and I know from experience she isn't as easy to trade with as you say. Considering ADC's with lower attack range and not a lot of long ranged poke (Vayne, Twitch, Lucian, Graves) need to get in AA range of Annie to poke her, that's dangerously close to her Q range. If her stun is up, and she has AP in her runes, (which most Annie players seem to have) You combine her stun and damage with damage from the enemy ADC, that's not exactly something that's easy to trade with. The only choices you are left with are to play safe until you can farm without the constant pressure of her passive, or rely on your jungler for some opportune ganks. By backing off as one of the ADC's I mentioned, you can't poke her to keep her away without receiving some massive damage, so the result is loss of farm. I personally don't like the champion in general, and I especially don't like playing against a decent one. So if she gets nerfed, I can't say I'd lose any sleep.

AccountaBilabudyJan 17, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=not ryelz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oVq68bmd,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2015-01-17T13:58:20.835+0000)

Well I main Vayne and I know from experience she isn't as easy to trade with as you say. Considering ADC's with lower attack range and not a lot of long ranged poke (Vayne, Twitch, Lucian, Graves) need to get in AA range of Annie to poke her, that's dangerously close to her Q range. If her stun is up, and she has AP in her runes, (which most Annie players seem to have) You combine her stun and damage with damage from the enemy ADC, that's not exactly something that's easy to trade with. The only choices you are left with are to play safe until you can farm without the constant pressure of her passive, or rely on your jungler for some opportune ganks. By backing off as one of the ADC's I mentioned, you can't poke her to keep her away without receiving some massive damage, so the result is loss of farm. I personally don't like the champion in general, and I especially don't like playing against a decent one. So if she gets nerfed, I can't say I'd lose any sleep.

exactly. lane Annie, who cares. Support Annie is so broken. Literally more OP than Thresh has ever been.

GorillazNtheMystMar 30, 20151 votes

I would argue the stun is pretty spamable, since she has built in sustain to spam all her spells, meaning you can get stacks very easily. Not sure how that doesn't fit the definition of spammable...

KICK OUT AT 2Jan 17, 20153 votes

Shes a 450 ip champion, shes supposed to be simple.

RogueWillJan 16, 20152 votes

Hey I knew this was coming, with all the assassins terrorizing mid lane she has taken a rise. However Annie has zero mobility and short spell range. Any mage outranges her bastly, if she tries to zone you then she is open to one of your longer spells poke, without any sustain she doesn't want to take poke.

I don't rely on DFG when I play Annie, sure it adds a bit of burst but you can kill the carries without the need of DFG and the global stun is nice so your ADC can kill the tanks. If they are removing some of her initial burst damage on Tibbers most likely they will compensate by either buffing her Q or her W will make her early game even more oppressive.

Solidair3Jan 16, 20152 votes

I'm hoping that they'll lower tibbers' base damage, but greatly increase his movespeed and aura damage, as well as his auto attacks.

I'm sure whatever they show to us will get a huge response either way, though.

DanofDemaciaJan 16, 20154 votes

That would be pointless. Shes a burst mage why would u give her sustain damage? Also annie has no range, mobility, or gap closer so after she burst you down you can easily get away. So lowering tibbers damage and giving him sustained damage would be useless unless his aura also slows or they give annie a gap closer

Mek WTFJan 16, 20152 votes

Maybe, they're just changing her so she's not sitting around waiting for ult to come off cooldown.

N00BC8K3Jan 16, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Niki Quinn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oVq68bmd,comment-id=0018,timestamp=2015-01-16T19:41:11.270+0000)

Maybe, they're just changing her so she's not sitting around waiting for ult to come off cooldown.

Another good point, Annie without Tibbers means she probable isn't going to kill you. She is very Ult dependent in my opinion any way.

TotalJerkJan 16, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Annie without Tibbers means she probable isn't going to kill you.

Maybe she wont, but her team will. You forget she can stun with her other abilities, too.

5G8Nri0B54Jan 17, 20152 votes

They should atleast modernize her to be less one-directional.

Beyond that...give her R the Phosphorous Bomb Treatment (without the AD ratios of course...). Tweak it however you like, but give it either a missile animation or some sort of flame eruption.

Compensate however you like, like making her Tibbers more than just a flavourful afterthought.

Just you know...don't pull a Cassiopeia on her by nerfing all her abilities to SHIT and funneling all her ability's powers to her Molten Shield or something.

Kosm1KJan 17, 20152 votes

Is anyone here interested in the sweetheart Annie skin? What if I told you that there's a board post discussing her having pink fire in that skin? Still interested? Then please post on it here, Riot is so far unwilling to change the fire effects, but I'm sure if the post gathers enough steam, we can change things and make annie have pink fire in her upcoming skin!

Masked PariahMar 8, 20152 votes

I'm sorry but Annie does not have counter play. With the recent nerfs to the champions that could beat her and her recent buffs, she is way too powerful. I feel like none of her damage should be nerfed, but her passive needs some tuning.

1.) Maybe have her passive be on a CD so once she has her stun she has to use it or it goes away (maybe a 5 sec use or its gone) 2.) Or have to where after she stuns she has a 10 sec CD before stunning again. (This causes "counter play" and makes a window to attacker her if she hasn't killed you already.

I feel like this because she can keep a enemy zoned for way to long with the amount of raw damage, long poke range and the stun can be on any of her ability except her w. (And lets be honest its a long stun) So it should be fine making it "how long you have" or "can" use it.

TL;DR- A ideal way to stop Annie from holding stun in lane for 40 secs and to use it in a limited time zone or then the 4th spell stun dies and you got to do another 4 spells to stun.

GorillazNtheMystMar 30, 20151 votes

I agree. There is literally no counterplay to an oppressive, easy to aim stun, that basically means instant death. I don't get how that's unbalanced on Veigar, but balanced on Annie. Just because Annie has no escape doesn't mean she's not OP. She still has her stupid shield, and the stun creates incredible zone pressure, so it's not like diving an Annie is a great idea.

j jJan 16, 20151 votes

They are removing dfg and they plan to touch her further lol?

CrownsyJan 16, 20152 votes

She is on the rise as a counter pick to there beloved #LCSBIGPLAYS!!! mid assassins, can't have that with a new season on the horizon. I've been using her alot lately to shut down akali and yas in particular, as Tibbers ducks the windwall and she stun can punish akali hard for farming recklessly and beat her to her ult to have tibbers available to burst her when she jumps on your ADC.

But God forbid a champ exists who uses mana and somehow slows down Zed, Akali, Yas ect.