who gets buffs?

Enby Trsdppy··0 votes·1,164 views

so i main jungler and it seems that this preseason that means nothing. my teammates relentlessly steal my buffs. i usually play Kha'Zix or Xin Zhoa, i always give my blue to the mid unless it a yasuo or something, and if mid doesnt need it i consider giving it to the support or the top laner. so basically, i think im pretty good about not hogging my buffs; but i have been running into a ton of players that think they can take any buff whenever they want it. I had a riven that stole my blue because we had an akali mid, a jinx that steals red after 20. jinx actually had a decent explanation, she said sometimes there are champs that are better with certain buffs than other champs. i can understand that but my argument is that i think that the jungler is the master of buffs. that means the jungler decides who gets buffs until the end of the game. Yes sometimes red is better in someone elses hands, but that is the JUNGLERS decision, no one elses. i think it should be a reportable offense to take the buffs against the junglers wishes. now that may seem extreme because some junglers are just selfish ass holes or are idiots that dont understand who should get buffs. BUT the tribunal system is designed to be able to figure the out the difference. So everyone, please tell me who should get to decide!

12 Comments

Cale0172 votes

While you have a point that the jungler should be the one to divvy out most of the buffs in a match, there isn't any strict authority. Keep in mind that if you're in solo queue, most players aren't thinking about it in terms of what's best for the team, they're thinking about what's best for them. So an ADC is going to see the red buff as better for them, and the general mindset about jungle buffs is that the jungler is only allowed to take them for themselves until the laning phase is over. In many cases this is true; my Rammus for instance doesn't require red for more than his first clear or two. After that, I'd much rather a friendly laner get it. But that's IF they can get it, if not I'm not going to let myself fall behind. And I'm certainly not going to give it to a 2 and 14 Ezreal who can't land his skillshots. But they feel a certain sense of entitlement because of the conditioning this game's meta has given the average player.

You can't report them for taking buffs, but you CAN report them for failure to communicate with the team, as going against the wishes of a teammate is a sign of failing to communicate effectively. That's about the best you can do.

Enby Trsdppy1 votes

i respect your opinion but id like to point out that red is REALLY REALLY good on rammus because of his passive... assuming your arent against a team that is 5 ap where your not building armor like at all.

Cale0171 votes

Consider for a moment that by the time I'm willing to give up that red buff I've already got my Taunt to full, my W is almost full, and I already have a Sunfire Cape and a Thornmail on top of the jungle item.

I'm doing enough damage to duel a carry and walk away with most of my health, and have enough tankiness to do a 2v1 against bruisers and be a-ok

Enby Trsdppy1 votes

it just makes me so mad that people ignore the junglers authority

Talamare1 votes

Who gets to decide? NO ONE

Man up and take the buffs yourself if you want it, YOU HAVE SMITE!

People are so damn entitled and feel such ownership to things that are NOT inherently theirs

OMG THESE ARE MY CS! GO AWAY... No they are not... You do NOT own them, the game awards the gold to the person who killed them...

Now... The real question, the real problem

If you want to win, you give the power to the one that does best with that power... Which is why you allow the ADC to have those CS, they do NOT "BELONG" to him, but we will not fight for them so that he can get gold and be able to perform.

SAME APPLIES TO JUNGLE BUFFS Red and Blue does NOT "BELONG" to you, just because you chose that to be your source of income and experience early game. However we recognize the need for those buffs to do well in the jungle, so we allow you to have them... WE EVEN HELP YOU GET THEM WITH A LEASH!

Now when mid and late game rolls around, we as a collective TEAM might decide that it no longer in the TEAM's best interest for you to continue using these buffs...

Matter of fact, we as a team have decided that it isn't even in the team's best interest for you to continue clearing jungle camps... The ADC needs the gold above your need to get a sliver more tanky or whatever...

To sum up... YOU ARE IN CONTROL OF YOURSELF HOWEVER THIS IS A TEAM GAME

Enby Trsdppy1 votes

the leash is so the jungler has a chance of actually not being level 3 while everyone else is level 7. the entire point of the role system is to assign everyone their own source of income that they can count on being able to have with out worrying whether or not it will get stolen. and we cant always be there to protect our farm/source of XP because if mid needs a gank then top needs a gank and mid again, we dont have time to go down to the lower part of the jungle and secure that buff for ourselves. and before you say we should be getting all the xp and gold we need from ganks in that case, junglers make mistakes, we are human, ganks will fail from time to time, especially when we are being pushed to the limit like i just described.

FantasySniper1 votes

ADCs get Red, mana-hungry casters get Blue, and they better damn well get it after the 15 minute mark. Unless the jungler has a specific pick that benefits more than others from the buff, of course, like some mana-dependant junglers.

As a rule, though, manaless champions should never get blue and ranged ADCs are better than melee ADCs for getting red.

The jungler shouldn't dictate who gets what, but they should be given some benefit of the doubt when it comes to a choice they make. Past the 15 minute mark, it's pretty much controlled by the unspoken rules stated above.

Pika3103 votes

If I've been getting the full enemy team's attention to be shut down on ADC, constant 5v2s bot for the first 20 minutes and are behind in farm, items and participation, I don't want red. Red needs to go to whoever can use it best, that's not always the ADC. Give it to the 10/2 Irelia, this 0/3 Jinx won't get anything from it.

Likewise, I don't want blue going to mid if they're having a poor game either. Give it to the 7/0 Caitlyn, she'll be glad to Peacemaker every minion wave.

FantasySniper1 votes

I deleted that part of my post, originally it said something along the lines of:

If they won't cough it right back up after their 3rd+ death.

Enby Trsdppy1 votes

True, but the jungler still needs to be able to get his buffs whenever he needs them more, thats why he should decide who gets them and when. also sometimes a 0/6/1 jinx might still feel its a good idea for her to have red. the jungler should be the one to decide just for situations like that!

Pika3101 votes

Perhaps and in that exact situation the jungler did say to take red. So that would've been a consensus between the two. There's nothing wrong with it, both know the Jinx played the best she could considering the circumstances, evident by not having twice or even thrice as many deaths.

Now though, I find more junglers concerned with securing Toad or Raptor buffs instead. With the reduced xp gain from red and blue, distributing them out is less restrictive to their leveling from before.

NSxProdigy161 votes

Gonna cover a few things. -entitlement -source of income -the difference between something being the teams and something being a lanes -taxing -late game buffs -who can utilize the buff the most

when a laner goes into the jungle and just assumes they can take gromp or krugs because they're bot lane it is very frustrating, you're not entitled to it. They are jungle camps, that are gold for the jungler. And saying they are not the junglers camps, but the teams camps is essentially saying its ok for the jungler to just walk into your lane and take cs whenever he/she wants without reason because they're the teams minions, not your lanes minions. The camps are the junglers source of income like the minions are lanes source of income. Now thats not saying that if the jungler is banking top you can't take krugs, just communicate with your team so that you know you're not going to steal away from your own team, therefore helping the enemy team by not sharing the wealth.

Now if i (the jungler) bank your lane and i get your lane opponents flash, or a kill, but i do not receive the kill and only get an assist, i am going to tax you. I will take a handful of minions, usually around 5-7, because in the time it took me to bank your lane i am giving up farming time in the jungle. This is how the rift keeps everything in balance, but if i come and i don't do anything but get them to back up, ping me away if i try to take farm bc i really didn't do anything to earn the tax. Know what i mean?

for the most part when it comes to buffs after the first 2 maybe 3 buffs it is on the jungler to decide whether or not it is better to have the red buff on the 2/2 sivir or the 4/2 fizz. It comes down to the junglers judgement when it comes down to it, and if the laner wants to take a buff they can very easily ask and most junglers including myself have no problem giving them away.

Now when it comes to very late game 35-40 mins + the buffs then no longer become only the junglers decision and should go to the player on the team carrying the hardest that can make the most use of it and has a lower chance of losing the buff to the other team. That means if the 13/5 sivir thinks she is entitled to the red buff after 50 minutes because she is the adc, she needs to realize that perhaps the red buff and the blue buff would be better suited on the 26/3 fizz that is tanky, deals a lot of damage and has lots of ins and outs to get onto the enemy back line and pop the enemy teams carries, with a devourer to boot. Just because the mid laner uses mana doesn't entitle him/her to the blue buff for the rest of the game, the buffs go to whoever is carrying / whoever will benefit the team the most with it.

Also lanes need to understand that it makes an absolutely ASTOUNDING difference in how you approach getting buffs from your jungler in the late game. If the ashe asks for the blue buff and the annie mid lane doesn't need it, it is much more appreciated and much more likely your jungler will let you have the buff, than if you just take it and then say "oh its better on me now i can keep my frost shot active all the time".

This is also a big deal when you have a team split thinking that the buffs should statically always having red buff go to the adc late game and always having the blue buff go to the mid / top laner late game. This is not true. I will go back to my fizz example since it is fresh in my mind. If i (fizz) am carrying the game and have more than twice as many kills as the adc, am full build and have no reason to go back to base other than to get pots, it makes more sense for me to have the blue and the red buff than it does for the 12/6 annie to have blue, or the 13/5 sivir to have red, because i am constantly spamming spells, am tanky with the new ad fizz tank build (less likely to lose them), and can get to the back line fairly easily and blow up their carries, while the adc with red would still be trying to fight down the frontline, and the annie with blue would not need the increased mana regen for a single fight.

Also if your jungler has built the devourer enchant on his jungle item you should always double check before taking his camps because then not only are the camps his source of income they're his source of damage, even in the late game when everyone is fully built. Similar to nasus, sion, veigar etc that all have infinitely stacking abilities, you can never have enough stacks, and one stack may be the difference between winning a fight or losing a fight, and you have no way to know whether or not it will.

But, as stated above it is all situational, and unless you are fimiliar with the champion and playstyle of the other champs on your team, you cannot definitively say "this buff is best on me". You need t communicate with your teammates and coordinate buffs to help the team and not just yourself.

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