How elevation is making you miss skill shots (5 minute video)

Enby Trsdppy·Nov 18, 2017·78 votes·5,617 views

Basically, 2 locations in a straight line, but on different elevations will actually lead to aiming your skill shot in 2 different dirrections Also, abilities that target a location of the map can display that a certain point is within your range, but its actually just outside your range

RELATED VIDEO: This is a video my Wolle, he brought up the point of what he calls "low ground advantage. This is extremely related to my video, infact, my video is essencially an extension of his https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H19TCjh3Pxo

58 Comments

FireDrizzleNov 18, 201729 votes

So that's why clicking to place a ward over a wall paths you round the wall... that has killed me a few times and lost many kills with skillshots. Should be changed.

CliticusNov 19, 20171 votes

riot actually explained this when thjey changed the coding for how wards could be placed through walls, it is now a spiral moving left from the mouse, while before it was a line.

lordlitty435Nov 19, 20174 votes

wut

CliticusNov 19, 20171 votes

back in season 6 with the new map riot changed how warding by placement on walls worked, it now is placed to the left moving in a spiral.

WimbledofyNov 19, 20171 votes

yeah but that's not really relevant to what the person said.

CliticusNov 19, 20171 votes

not to op but to the firedrizzle who was talking about warding over walls and through emn

WimbledofyNov 19, 20172 votes

I was talking about firedrizzle as well. Being pathed around a wall is different than what you described. What you described is when you intentionally place a ward in terrain. The spiral thing will never happen if you don't click on terrain with your ward.

BolwinkelNov 19, 20172 votes

I'd love it if they made the indicators lay flat against the ground. Sure, it'd be a little funky looking at first, but it'd give so much clarity.

MadMad SicknessNov 18, 20176 votes

I've also done the same thing and have always wondered about this.

I just could never put my concerns into words, nj

DrugsForRobotsNov 19, 20175 votes

Players should fight their opponents, not the game. We strive to present information in a clear and precise way so that League can be about dominating opponents with skill and teamwork – not through bookkeeping hidden information.

"Clarity means we want distinct, transparent mechanics in everything we design. When the outcome of a game hinges on a player’s ability to quickly assess the situation, information needs to be clear and accessible. This doesn't mean we tell players the best play to make, but we should make sure they have the right info to make calls as best they can."

---- Ryan "Morello" Scott, Lead Designer of League of Legends, Dev Blog: The Design Values of League of Legends

egoSniperNov 19, 20174 votes

Creep block randomly becomes a 2-5 second snare, especially in cramped spaces like bot lane.

Then we've got the elevation thing which until now I didn't realize was a problem, but now I understand why it's so hard to hit people outside Baron pit while inside of it.

Oh, and skill animations and hitboxes don't line up. Blitz can occasionally pull you through minions (seems to have a smaller hitbox for minions than champs), Ahri charm will miss someone if they blink/flash with the heart engulfing them, Darius... well thank god they mostly fixed Darius' pull but it's still pretty bad... Lux ult with the most inconsistent hitbox ever, etc. There's far too many of these.

GayFluffyUnicornNov 20, 20171 votes

We should pin this on the walls of riots current balance team or even better bring back morello.

P0IS0N IVYNov 18, 20174 votes

This is why I can never get Zyra to ult across the dragon wall. T__T

GentlemanGhidoraNov 19, 20174 votes

I already knew this, that’s why I hate it when I can kill someone on the far edge of my screen but the angle perception screws with me.

x Royal Solo xNov 19, 20174 votes

This explains so much....

egoSniperNov 19, 20174 votes

There are so many things like this in the game to watch out for. I get Riot makes the game for the pros and not for shitters like me, but c'mon, I need all the help I can get...

BrascusNov 18, 20173 votes

The guide vectors aren't projected onto the terrain which would probably solve the mechanical clarity, but at the same time not look as clean, and I think Riot went of visual clarity over mechanical clarity if that makes sense.

Enby TrsdppyNov 18, 201714 votes

i think they could and should have just not added a physical drop in the map, making it 2D instead of 3. Im not sure if they could even change it to that now though without visually demolishing the map, that would need to be an early decision, not something they can just change after a couple years. regardless, i dont like it

lordlitty435Nov 19, 20173 votes

Wow this is a really big flaw imo. riot plz fix!

AlienPrimateNov 19, 20173 votes

This can be really aggravating on Taric. Here are some pictures from a game a while back. Look at how the stun changes as I change location and zoom.

https://i.imgur.com/q6AtzAr.png https://i.imgur.com/NId9I0H.png https://i.imgur.com/WfLQK2x.png https://i.imgur.com/luTsGmj.png https://i.imgur.com/0BkWVO9.png

Bob the ToastrNov 19, 20173 votes

Great video, very informative.

Enby TrsdppyNov 19, 20172 votes

thank you! i cant say i worked hard on it, but this is something ive been thinking about for a while so i have put a lot of thought into it

LatetotheRaceNov 19, 20173 votes

This would be such a nightmare to fix. Not that it shouldn't be, but yeah...

Yordle XayahNov 19, 20173 votes

http://pa1.narvii.com/6467/3ae0836a5d7541f1f02a3b7ec47a0f6fecbf4058_00.gif

kattzkittiNov 18, 20172 votes

Why are you aiming at a random point between yourself and your target? Aim at your target as the system adjusts to that automatically, problem solved. This "issue" is a non-issue, you're just looking for something to complain about.

Enby TrsdppyNov 18, 201718 votes

you dont ALWAYS aim directly on a target in a fight, often times, you just aim in their direction so you can move your cursor elsewhere faster, in this instance, the elevation mechanic does get in your way.

more importantly, the second point about abilities that target locations on the map, not units or directions, that is impactful to game play when you are told that point is in range, but it isnt

RouwhorstNov 18, 20172 votes

Please do a video on pathing. The current system makes you walk around eventhough you can reach it over the wall That has way more impact on the game

Enby TrsdppyNov 18, 20177 votes

no its not that pathing makes me want to walk when i am in range, its that the display shows that it is in range when its not. Because the view isnt dirrectly top-down, its tilted slightly back. This makes the range indicator lie, telling you things that arent in range, are in range

RouwhorstNov 19, 20175 votes

I understand what you showed. The indicators don't reflect the terrain elevations well. And don't take the camera angle into account.

But that's not what I meant. (a bit off topic) I was talking about how the pathing works with trying to cast something at another side of a wall. Say I want to place a ward at almost full range over a wall. I am able to place this ward when I stand against the wall. Yet now I stand further back and try to place the ward in the exact same place I was able to place it in before. Guess what happens. Well of course you gotta walk around that entire wall to be able to place that ward on the other side....

Enby TrsdppyNov 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I understand what you showed. The indicators don't reflect the terrain elevations well. And don't take the camera angle into account.

But that's not what I meant. (a bit off topic) I was talking about how the pathing works with trying to cast something at another side of a wall. Say I want to place a ward at almost full range over a wall. I am able to place this ward when I stand against the wall. Yet now I stand further back and try to place the ward in the exact same place I was able to place it in before. Guess what happens. Well of course you gotta walk around that entire wall to be able to place that ward on the other side....

oh ok, i know what you are talking about now. Yes, i agree, this is annoying

Enby TrsdppyNov 19, 20172 votes

I was just looking at Wolle's channel and i found an other video that discusses what i discussed, but he kinda does a better job, though his mic is really quiet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idXroXfPNZU

SarcasticShepardNov 19, 20172 votes

Well done, good points, good content. Work on your delivery a bit, but that's the only criticism I can offer.

LeonerdoNov 19, 20172 votes

TL;DW: Differences in elevation + League's isometric (not-quite-top-down) camera angle = straight lines on-screen (indicators) don't line up with straight skillshots that change elevation. Skillshots actually follow a staircase-like path when changing elevation, which keeps them from clipping into the ground and such. But that makes aiming less intuitive from an isometric perspective. #Clarity is compromised (to a very small degree, imo)

ADC5LUTNov 18, 20171 votes

I could've sworn riot said that there was no elevation.

Enby TrsdppyNov 18, 20175 votes

i dont think so. i demonstrated rather clearly that elevation is a thing. Also if you go to the description of my video, i put a link to an other video that discusses the elevation mechanic

AtanchanNov 19, 20172 votes

There's visual elevation, and a z-axis in-engine. The actual game logic only utilizes x and y coordinates for collision detection and stuff, though.

Enby TrsdppyNov 19, 20175 votes

well i just proved that the visual elevation affects player input. so the Z axis isnt PURELY aesthetic

AtanchanNov 19, 20172 votes

No, you actually proved that is it purely aesthetic. But this posts also proves how you completely underestimate how aesthetics alter gameplay, if only through player perception - i.e., a camera angle combining with non-flat terrain causing you to think two points are within a straight line of each other when they're actually not, resulting in two different angles with a significant deviation at long distances. Similarly, because the range indicators are not drawn onto the ground yet ignore occlusion, a point outside of your cast range can appear to be inside the range indicators without said indicators having a significant amount of inaccuracy.

This is why when you see someone proudly proclaim that "graphics don't matter!", you can immediately dismiss them as someone who knows nothing about game design ( nor have they really experienced any games with horrendous graphical design ) and use this as an example of how even small flaws in it can have real impact on a game.

Enby TrsdppyNov 19, 20171 votes

I edited my post to include a video that is not mine, but mine is actually meant to be an extension of the 2nd video. In it, Wolle examines part of how elevation impacts the game. its 2 minutes long

AtanchanNov 19, 20172 votes

... But that's still just a combination of the camera angle and the range indicator just being a non-occluded, translated texture being applied at your current location. There's no actual game logic adding extra range or stuff like that, it's just the fact that the game isn't played from a directly top-down perspective.

Enby TrsdppyNov 19, 20172 votes

did you think for maybe a second that my point is exactly that being the problem? i couldnt understand you with your technical mumbo jumbo and denial of your own fucking eyes

AtanchanNov 19, 20172 votes

I think you're the one with the denial of your own eyes, considering you seem to think that that wasn't what I was saying from the start. There's just a massive difference between it affecting player input ( aka, a target point higher than your current location resulting in actually having less range, due the distance check including that height difference in determining the distance between you and the target ) and it just looking like it does.

WimbledofyNov 19, 20171 votes

Yeah the video you included is actually what proves the elevation is purely aesthetic. If it wasn't then none of these problems would happen. It's because the Z axis is aesthetic that he can jump over the wall as leblanc in that spot. If it was more than just visual elevation, the game wouldn't allow him to jump over the wall there.

WimbledofyNov 19, 20171 votes

that's the problem, the elevation is only visual. If there was actual elevation, the range markers would be shown correctly. It's also why things like lux ult hit when it looks like it missed and misses when it looks like it should have it.

AlimentateurNov 19, 20171 votes

Are you even in Bronze that Logic doesn't apply to you? Ofc the Trajectory changes ever so slighty .. like how dumb are you?

Yordle XayahNov 19, 20175 votes

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

AlimentateurNov 19, 20171 votes

"i have to move when i want to cast it outside of my skill range, thats weird" lmfao

WEANUS PEANUSNov 20, 20171 votes

The problem is that skill range indicators do not compensate for elevation dingus. This causes a lot of problems when you're trying to place an accurate ward/ability and all of the sudden your character starts moving.

AlimentateurNov 20, 20171 votes

In the Video he shows it with Veigar: To his left he places his Skill in Skill Range and nothing happens. To his right he places his Skill outside of Skill Range on the same Ground and has to walk there. Then the Dragon Pit where he yet again wants to places the Skill outside of Skill Range and has to walk there.

Thats why we have a Skill Range. #Logic

This however does not apply to Jhin. Jhin is unique in a way that his Long Shot Skill width changes based on different stuff (sneaky showed it in one of his recent yt uploads) If the Shot goes to higher Ground, the Shot can go to the right or left of his Target even tho the Target is out of his Skill width