200 Range

Mordepool·Mar 21, 2018·97 votes·4,357 views

Noone has mentioned Irelia having 200 AA range on a Mobile fighter.

Juggernauts were set apart from other fighters by having Increased Auto attack Range.

Since most didn't scale well with Attack speed. But. Fuck them right
just give a Mobile Diver with hard CC and an Atkspeed ramp. Better Melee range than the whole Group that sacrifices Mobility for that little extra Range.
It's shit like this is that is killing your loyal playerbase.

It's No wonder people are leaving this Game you stomp all over your old designs and the only people who see it have been here long enough to notice.

Edit. My point is Riot is adding more power creep to the game by ignoring previous design philosophies they created.

155 Comments

Critmaster GarenMar 21, 201835 votes

my guess is that their reasoning in this case was really only aesthetics, to make her blades fly out further from her champion model.

even juggernauts have 175 auto attack range. there are some divers like XinZhao who also have 175 attack range.

200 is a bit silly.

MordepoolMar 21, 201814 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oOdghOQE,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-03-21T09:39:53.292+0000)

my guess is that their reasoning in this case was really only aesthetics, to make her blades fly out further from her champion model.

even juggernauts have 175 auto attack range. there are some divers like who also have 175 attack range.

200 is a bit silly.

Xin I could see having more range as a spear wielder but you have to sacrifice something to get that range. What is Irelia sacrificing

ThefrostyvikingMar 21, 201818 votes

What is Xin sacrificing? O_O

The only thing i can think of is durability....but he gets some of the best early game sustain for it and thus doesnt suffer much, new irelia will have a tiny heal on Q that even riot referred to as "small."

Like Talon Q small, probably.

Xin only struggles with melee burst if he goes glass cannon, otherwise he gets some defensive stats, ults and dives his target of choice and often kills them because he has good damage in most builds.

grarrrgMar 21, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oOdghOQE,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-03-21T09:39:53.292+0000)

200 is a bit silly.

At least it's not as silly as Fiddlesticks WHY YOU NO MULTIPLE OF 25!?

MuzétMar 21, 20182 votes

I can't forget what I've seen now because of you.

SpoofghoulMar 21, 201834 votes

200 range fits a large hit box slow melee champion

like Sion who has 175

Because you get stuck in minion waves if you want to cs with a range of 125 It also doesn't make him OP because his strength isn't in basic attacking enemies to death

irelia doesn't need it at all

Malicious MetalMar 21, 201825 votes

She'll sell more skins and have a higher playrate than all of the Juggernauts combined.

Professor WardMar 21, 201823 votes

upvote for truth, that is pretty meh and i'd like to see some reasoning behind it other than pure power.

Velzard of KozMar 21, 20186 votes

The other reasoning may be themtic/lore-wise (not that it'd help the case, lol), because she uses her blades telecinetically, so the range at which she attacks seems more natural.

Gameplay explanation may be that they hit some other stat to justify it or something. Or they plan to make this way all Divers and give future Juggernauts different advantage. They are even slightly improving their target acces, while not making it diver-like, like Illaoi's spirit grab or Urgot's charge.

Lucky MonikerMar 21, 20185 votes

^ this. I’m sure it’s fluff but of all of things to whine about you pick AA range? I understand it completely dictates the lane dynamic, but it honestly fits in every way to have her AA distance longer

PB4UAMEMar 22, 20183 votes

I understand it completely dictates the lane dynamic

When juggernauts have to sacrifice any mobility AT ALL for 175 range, and then you have Yasuo 2.0 with 200, when as you readily admit, that's enough extra power for her to bully lane trades with now EVERY SINGLE OTHER MELEE CHAMPION IN THE GAME as she can auto them and melee kite, without even having to use a dash-- which she also has, with resets. . .

I better see all juggernauts get 225 range at least, and Urgot bumped up to 450, or this shit has got to go.

MordepoolMar 21, 201823 votes

Considering its a subClass benefit. From a class she doesn't belong to

MordepoolMar 21, 201820 votes

LCS views I couldn't give a shit. The dedicated players are leaving

deadlychuckMar 21, 201818 votes

Idk, i'd say that class based design decisions has probably done more harm than good and really killed a lot of the loyal playerbase.

The bad decision isn't letting Irelia have 200 AA range as a mobile fighter, the bad decision was giving juggernauts a mechanic as a class, rather than the champions individually as needed. Which now makes the Irelia range seem so unfair and like it's coming from an aspect of juggernauts, when there was really no justification for the champions that comprised the juggernaut class to get it by being categorized as juggernauts.

NyarlathοtepMar 21, 201817 votes

Eh. Im expecting it to be lowered almost immediately when she gets released. This reminds me ekko on release. No mana cost on his ulti xD.

SpecterVonBarenMar 21, 20183 votes

I still have no idea how that got through PBE. That and rework Lucian infinite dashing.

PB4UAMEMar 22, 20182 votes

Lucian STILL has a free dash.

SpecterVonBarenMar 22, 20183 votes

It no longer removes slows, has its mana cost at early ranks back, and had its cooldown increased by 4 seconds at all ranks. Not nearly as ridiculous as it was right after the rework.

DrugothMar 21, 201812 votes

I mean, she uses floating blades to do all her damage. Technically her range could be pretty damn long.

[sg-zephyr]

CrazyFrogEyeMar 21, 201810 votes

I mean, Catilin uses a sniper rifle to do almost all of her damage. Technically her AAs could have an even longer range.

Nobody is arguing that i doesnt make sense lore-wise, they are saying that it gives her a massive advantage that she doesnt need, because she is incredibly mobile already.

KuboxMar 21, 20184 votes

At the speed she's using it, you better believe she has to be "close" to shoot with a 100% accuracy rate. I mean, just look at how much time it takes her to line up a shot from outside that range,

Daedric EtwahlMar 21, 20182 votes

Plus she doesn't keep it aimed between shots, she constanttly goes back to standing there casually holding it, whips it up for a shot, and yet still has 100% accuracy. That's crazy

BisaknospMar 21, 201811 votes

then leave lul

MordepoolMar 21, 201811 votes

{quoted}

then leave lul

If only it were that easy

FridgeDMar 21, 201810 votes

it fits her theme and her looks (like xin)
juggernauts have other benefits, that make them shine.
you are mad, cause she will be strong vs morde
you are mad, cause she got her rework before morde (i´m with you) [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

MordepoolMar 21, 201814 votes

{quoted}

it fits her theme and her looks (like xin)
I'm not seeing where she sacrificed to get that range.

juggernauts have other benefits, that make them shine. Doesn't seem like Juggernauts fit into any meta with 1-2 exceptions

you are mad, cause she will be strong vs morde I'm mad Riot spits all over the design rule they make and how it tramples over older champions. That fact she can kite Morde in melee range is the reason I started the post.

you are mad, cause she got her rework before morde (i´m with you) [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

I was mad during that roadmap. Idgaf now

My Waifu VanillaMar 21, 20189 votes

Except she would be able to kite morde with an auto attack range of 75 due to her having CC and several gap closers to just run circles around you. Don't paint it to be just her auto attack range causing her to be a counter when her entire kit makes your obsolete (bonus to shields, mobility, and W that completely denies Q3 almost).

MordepoolMar 21, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Vanilla,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oOdghOQE,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2018-03-21T14:45:07.829+0000)

Except she would be able to kite morde with an auto attack range of 75 due to her having CC and several gap closers to just run circles around you.

I don't think her hard countering Mordekaiser is a problem. It implies she has to play well to do so. I'm sure it would feel like garbage to play Morde during that scenario but that isn't that much of a change to how he feels to play anyway.

Don't paint it to be just her auto attack range causing her to be a counter when her entire kit makes your obsolete (bonus to shields, mobility, and W that completely denies Q3 almost).

I draw argument If they Set up design philosophies that puts limitations on certain groups of champions and then allow certain champions to ignore all those rules. That's what my thread is about. Favoritism.

Lord Phazanor Mar 21, 20184 votes

{quoted}

it fits her theme and her looks (like xin)

juggernauts have other benefits, that make them shine.

you are mad, cause she will be strong vs morde

you are mad, cause she got her rework before morde (i´m with you) [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

You're not wrong on 3 and 4, you're just an asshole.

MordepoolMar 21, 20183 votes

{quoted}

You're not wrong on 3 and 4, you're just an asshole.

No name calling please he has his point of view

THE RlVER KlNGMar 21, 201810 votes

CRIES IN TAHM KENCH

Z3SleeperMar 21, 20186 votes

Currently the longest unmodified melee basic attack range is 175. It is kinda ridiculous that she's going to be the longest range melee champion despite being extremely slippery.

Some 175 range champions get an extra 50 range on some abilities and that 225 range is seen as a powerful poke tool. Meanwhile Irelia is just going to outrange these champions by 25 all the time.

We'll see if it's actually an issue or not soon. Highly speculate her range is gonna go down to 175, otherwise I can see in the near future we're gonna start having range creep on melee champions.

DeclareasMar 21, 20183 votes

A few years ago Tahm Kench had 200 range, but they nerfed him down to 175 so he'd be in line with the others. If they dropped Irelia to 175 I think she'd be alright.

Z3SleeperMar 21, 20182 votes

I believe he actually had 225. It was ridiculous.

Nvm ur right it was 200

PB4UAMEMar 22, 20184 votes

See, 200 range is ridiculous, and RIOT even knows it from history. They're just too fucking dumb to remember.

invisiblecat1Mar 21, 20183 votes

I really don't think this is something that impacts too much considering she has reliable ways to get right on top of enemy champions However, I feel like 200 is still a lot Maybe 175 would be better

MordepoolMar 21, 201814 votes

{quoted}

I really don't think this is something that impacts too much considering she has reliable ways to get right on top of enemy champions However, I feel like 200 is still a lot Maybe 175 would be better

She's mobile and doesn't need that extra range

ƒrostγMar 21, 20183 votes

So how is the AA range of a champ gonna impact the other 139 champ?

MordepoolMar 21, 20185 votes

{quoted}

So how is the AA range of a champ gonna impact the other 139 champ?

It's the trampling of past design decisions that I draw issue with

ƒrostγMar 21, 20185 votes

{quoted}

It's the trampling of past design decisions that I draw issue with

Sorry but I fail to see how change is a bad thing.

Automated RivenMar 21, 20184 votes

Aa range is pretty huge man. That kind of range in toplane basically nullifies the danger of the enemy champion in toplane. That's a pretty huge buff.

MordepoolMar 21, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Sorry but I fail to see how change is a bad thing.

Aimless change leads to chaos.

Establishing core design values and maintaining them as you move forward makes a better game.

ƒrostγMar 22, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Aimless change leads to chaos.

Establishing core design values and maintaining them as you move forward makes a better game.

This obviously wasn't an aimless change, I mean how can change be aimless to begin with?

101100111000Mar 22, 20183 votes

Any change made without any basic premises set forth is by definition aimless. You can't create guidelines for yourself and then just break them and declare "this was intentional and guided" because then it puts into question the reason for those design premises being utilized and implemented in the first place.

MordepoolMar 22, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Any change made without any basic premises set forth is by definition aimless. You can't create guidelines for yourself and then just break them and declare "this was intentional and guided" because then it puts into question the reason for those design premises being utilized and implemented in the first place.

Thanks Binary

GigglesOMar 21, 20182 votes

{quoted}

It's No wonder people are leaving this Game you stomp all over your old designs and the only people who see it have been here long enough to notice.

If they get rid of us the game will go to shit fast. Maybe thats their goal, so everyone can play the new game riot is making.

MordepoolMar 21, 20186 votes

{quoted}

If they get rid of us the game will go to shit fast. Maybe thats their goal, so everyone can play the new game riot is making.

It's easier to push shit changes on people who don't know the history of good previous design philosophies

GigglesOMar 21, 20184 votes

{quoted}

It's easier to push shit changes on people who don't know the history of good previous design philosophies

You mean like they have been doing for years, and then they say things to try and justify it?

Look at how resistant they were to actually change the fact that zoe could one shot you? Look at all the justification that they had for the reworked kog that they reverted. They are finally partially reverting Rengar and Leblank.

FakeGravityMar 21, 20181 votes

you dont hear people complaining about the other strange champion with high movility and an auto attack speed steroid plus CC? Rakan 300 attack range but yeah at least rakan dont build AD and have trinity force sinergies why is rakan range again?