Garen oh Garen

JnFnRu·Sep 9, 2015·2 votes·538 views

So.... My last 4 games (one of them got me the ever so lovely demotion) I had Garen on the enemy team every game (I won't get into how Fizz was in 3 out of 4 and the oppressiveness of Shyvana Devourer Jungle in my last who triple killed us even though our jungle was ahead) and he proceeded to just kill everyone, you couldn't kill him.

We kited him with Lulu and Talon slows, he managed to get to us or get away with at least 1/3rd health and before we knew it he healed back up.

Im not sure if its Garen that needs some tweaks (particularly to his spin) or Spirit Visage that just makes healers heal too much, or the new juggernaut items that give this ridiculous movement speed when he isn't meant to have any.

12 Comments

MLDzXnRRRSep 9, 20151 votes

People were crying for buffs, because noone was playing him aside from sub lvl 30 players, now he is op - who could have thought that the manaless, tanky fighter could be op.

JamareeSep 9, 20151 votes

You do know he could have done this pre Juggernaut rework right, and had even more health because of the better scaling of his W AND the tenacity it had.

Baby GhoulSep 9, 20151 votes

What? I saw old Garen in a lot of games, even ranked games, and nobody was crying for him to be buffed. I think out of all of them Darius is a much bigger pain, but I think the only option right now is to ban them. I'd take the new Garen against the new Darius any day of the week. When Darius is banned people will usually pick up Garen though.

Garen is a little easier to operate than Darius, but I don't think he's nearly as oppressive as him.

JamareeSep 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

What? I saw old Garen in a lot of games

No, no you didn't, even in silver, he didn't get played often.

even ranked games, and nobody was crying for him to be buffed.

Yes, yes people did.

I think out of all of them Darius is a much bigger pain, but I think the only option right now is to ban them. I'd take the new Garen against the new Darius any day of the week. When Darius is banned people will usually pick up Garen though.

Personally I think they are both meph, their early games are weaker with strong mid to late games, which is exactly what people were complaining about, but hindsight is 20/20.

Baby GhoulSep 9, 20152 votes

{quoted}

No, no you didn't, even in silver, he didn't get played often.

Yes, yes people did.

Personally I think they are both meph, their early games are weaker with strong mid to late games, which is exactly what people were complaining about, but hindsight is 20/20.

You're wrong on all 3 of those points. He was seen in a lot of games. He was not under picked.

There is nothing "meh" about either of them. They're both incredibly strong top lane picks now, and everything shows that they're preforming very well.

JamareeSep 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You're wrong on all 3 of those points. He was seen in a lot of games. He was not under picked.

No, he really did not, we are not going to gloss over and act like he saw any actual play. Before this rework besides being a niche counterpick and by hardcore mains he did not get played anywhere above low gold. He would get picked to counter Riven, Darius, and Renekton, and that was it. You did not once see him see tourney, don't bullshit and lie and say you did, and you didn't see him on spectate of master games more then once every blue moon.

The same things that worked on them before, IE ranged champions, still work on them now. Garen's early game is weaker now, he gets less movement speed with his Q, the silence is shorter, and his W is weaker early game with the removed tentacity which means the same things that bit him before hand, ranged combat, still beat him as long as you careful. Teemo, Jayce, Gnar still counter him because ranged still beats him.

And yes, people were begging for Garen buffs, players above Silver were asking for these for the longest because they said Garen fell off mid to late game, which was true because his scaling was trash and if he built full tank, did no damage and if he built full damage, got kited to death.

Baby GhoulSep 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No, he really did not, we are not going to gloss over and act like he saw any actual play. Before this rework besides being a niche counterpick and by hardcore mains he did not get played anywhere above low gold. He would get picked to counter Riven, Darius, and Renekton, and that was it. You did not once see him see tourney, don't bullshit and lie and say you did, and you didn't see him on spectate of master games more then once every blue moon.

The same things that worked on them before, IE ranged champions, still work on them now. Garen's early game is weaker now, he gets less movement speed with his Q, the silence is shorter, and his W is weaker early game with the removed tentacity which means the same things that bit him before hand, ranged combat, still beat him as long as you careful. Teemo, Jayce, Gnar still counter him because ranged still beats him.

And yes, people were begging for Garen buffs, players above Silver were asking for these for the longest because they said Garen fell off mid to late game, which was true because his scaling was trash and if he built full tank, did no damage and if he built full damage, got kited to death.

There's a reason you're getting downvoted. It's because you're just wrong. He's very strong right now, in every way. He does not lose lane often.

I'm not talking about any tourneys. I don't pay attention to any of that, the majority of us do not. We are talking about soloqueue. Do you think OP was in a tourney or something? I'm going to bet she wasn't. Soloqueue is a different environment. It's complete BS to compare the two. He was seen a lot in solo queue, like it or not.

Do not act like you're in a much higher ELO. I've been around for a while. This is not my first account, and there were not tons of people asking for Garen buffs. That topic did not surface here as often as you're trying to say. Please stop lying.

JamareeSep 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

There's a reason you're getting downvoted. It's because you're just wrong. He's very strong right now, in every way. He does not lose lane often.

I'm getting downvoted because the lower levels of players don't agree with what I'm saying, I don't really care, I'm just stating the facts of the matter, I'm not saying he isn't strong, I'm just saying he isn't this broken thing people are QQing about when he really isn't that bad.

I'm not talking about any tourneys. I don't pay attention to any of that, the majority of us do not. We are talking about soloqueue. Do you think OP was in a tourney or something? I'm going to bet she wasn't. Soloqueue is a different environment. It's complete BS to compare the two. He was seen a lot in solo queue, like it or not.

No, he wasn't, pre rework Garen was not seen in ranked solo queue at all unless you were silver or below, and Garen is only strong in solo queue against people who don't know how to handle him. He really isn't that end all be all threat people make him out to be, and he has clear weakness that the juggernaut rework pushed forward. He is now weaker against kiting with a shorter lasting Q in both movement speed and silence time as well as a weaker end game W in both raw amount of defenses and removed tenacity. In turn, he has gotten more damage to make up for the lack of mid to end game damage he didn't have.

Do not act like you're in a much higher ELO. I've been around for a while. This is not my first account, and there were not tons of people asking for Garen buffs. That topic did not surface here as often as you're trying to say. Please stop lying.

Yes there were, far more people asking for Garen buffs rather then saying he was fine, you need to stop lying.

Baby GhoulSep 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'm getting downvoted because the lower levels of players don't agree with what I'm saying, I don't really care, I'm just stating the facts of the matter, I'm not saying he isn't strong, I'm just saying he isn't this broken thing people are QQing about when he really isn't that bad.

No, he wasn't, pre rework Garen was not seen in ranked solo queue at all unless you were silver or below, and Garen is only strong in solo queue against people who don't know how to handle him. He really isn't that end all be all threat people make him out to be, and he has clear weakness that the juggernaut rework pushed forward. He is now weaker against kiting with a shorter lasting Q in both movement speed and silence time as well as a weaker end game W in both raw amount of defenses and removed tenacity. In turn, he has gotten more damage to make up for the lack of mid to end game damage he didn't have.

Yes there were, far more people asking for Garen buffs rather then saying he was fine, you need to stop lying.

You're in gold. I think you need to chill out. The moment you make this about ELO, especially when we're not that far apart, you prove you have nothing to say.

First the story was Garen was so underpowered, he was never seen, not even in silver or below, and everyone was asking for buffs. Now it's he was seen in silver, but some how the people who are always asking for buffs on G&B weren't participating in that because they were too busy playing him. You're all over the place. He was not a rare occurrence in solo queue.

I think you need to get your story straight, and check your ego. How Garen is preforming right now does not lie, and I'm not even asking for him to be nerfed, or QQing about him. I don't have problems playing against him with the champion I main, then again mine is also sitting at a super high win rate too with nerfs coming next patch.

You did not need to come at me with this, and I certainly don't need to take back talk from a gold player who thinks he's better than all of us when I get matched against plenty of gold players. It's not much different from silver. The only difference is a victorious skin at the end of the season.

JamareeSep 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

First the story was Garen was so underpowered, he was never seen, not even in silver or below, and everyone was asking for buffs. Now it's he was seen in silver, but some how the people who are always asking for buffs on G&B weren't participating in that because they were too busy playing him. You're all over the place. He was not a rare occurrence in solo queue.

No, what I said, and I quote myself above is "he didn't get played often." I never once said he didn't get played, I said he didn't get played often because of his clear weaknesses. Like his once against lackluster mid to late game, and utterly weakness to be kited.

I think you need to get your story straight, and check your ego. How Garen is preforming right now does not lie, and I'm not even asking for him to be nerfed, or QQing about him. I don't have problems playing against him with the champion I main, then again mine is also sitting at a super high win rate too with nerfs coming next patch.

Because this always happens, literally every buff, rework, and etc. Yeah his numbers are a big high, but everyone is so caught up in his strengths that they act like he doesn't have weaknesses period and don't look at all the numbers, or that he might just be overestimating his strengths. I don't have problems playing against him with my main either, because the strategies to beat him haven't changed at all, the only difference is his mid to late game is better.

You did not need to come at me with this, and I certainly don't need to take back talk from a gold player who thinks he's better than all of us when I get matched against plenty of gold players. It's not much different from silver. The only difference is a victorious skin at the end of the season.

I'm sorry, but I'm tired of lower elo players refusing to adapt, or learn, or try a different champion to counterplay. It is never their fault, it is always their teams, the balance, etc, never that maybe just maybe they need to try a different outlook on the game, try a different champion in a different role. However, as someone who has been from Bronze to Diamond, and now back to Gold, there really is a difference between play level of Gold to Silver.

Baby GhoulSep 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No, what I said, and I quote myself above is "he didn't get played often." I never once said he didn't get played, I said he didn't get played often because of his clear weaknesses. Like his once against lackluster mid to late game, and utterly weakness to be kited.

Because this always happens, literally every buff, rework, and etc. Yeah his numbers are a big high, but everyone is so caught up in his strengths that they act like he doesn't have weaknesses period and don't look at all the numbers, or that he might just be overestimating his strengths. I don't have problems playing against him with my main either, because the strategies to beat him haven't changed at all, the only difference is his mid to late game is better.

I'm sorry, but I'm tired of lower elo players refusing to adapt, or learn, or try a different champion to counterplay. It is never their fault, it is always their teams, the balance, etc, never that maybe just maybe they need to try a different outlook on the game, try a different champion in a different role. However, as someone who has been from Bronze to Diamond, and now back to Gold, there really is a difference between play level of Gold to Silver.

I can't continue to have a conversation with you when you're wrong, and no numbers support anything you're saying. In fact they contradict exactly what you're saying. Your entire argument that you started with me for no reason hinges on what ELO you're at, and it's really not that high. There is not a significant difference between silver and gold players. That's why we get matched together so often. Furthermore I've been playing this season for on ranked for one month, and not taking it very seriously. But keep bringing up lower ELO players, many people include gold into that bracket. I have no idea who downvoted you, but I can see why they were motivated to do so.

If he needs some tweaks, then he needs some tweaks. You don't see me lighting my hair on fire and running around crazy screaming that my champion is going to get nerfed after a very high win rate and topping many solo queue lists. I don't think any champion should be as strong as they are, and they are very strong in solo queue. Do I need to ban Garen? No. Many people are struggling with the juggernauts, across all ELOs, and that's significant.

Your attitude stinks, and you should not approach people in this manner, especially when again, you're not that high up there. No where was I QQing about Garen, so all of this is irrelevant. Lose the superiority complex.