No, 25~30 AD doesn't count as 'heavy'.
There's a heavy AD/Crit item, a heavy AD/MR item, several heavy AD/Lifesteal items, even a heavy AD/Mana item, but no heavy AD/IAS item.
Why is that? Is it really that unfathomable that someone might want to build attack speed and not crit chance?
SexyTaylorSwift3 votesBecause both heavy AD and AS would increase damage output a ridiculous amount. Increase damage on an already OP class of champions. Think before you post OP.
JustMyBassCannon3 votesWhat would it do?
Aside from scaling specifically with Lucian and every bruiser ever, what would be the purpose of a high AD/AS item?
No, seriously, I want this to be a discussion. When you're asking for a high AD/AS item, what stats are you wanting from it? What champions are wanting this?
I'm neither for nor against the idea. I'd like to see the reasoning.
Rebonack1 votesWhat would it do?
Aside from scaling specifically with Lucian and every bruiser ever, what would be the purpose of a high AD/AS item?
No, seriously, I want this to be a discussion. When you're asking for a high AD/AS item, what stats are you wanting from it? What champions are wanting this?
I'm neither for nor against the idea. I'd like to see the reasoning.
Ah HAH!
Someone wants to talk about stuff.
Just to toss some random numbers around, 70-80 AD and 40-50% attack speed, potentially with a passive that increases auto-attack range VS Towers and only Towers (with melee champions getting a larger bonus). Basically, an item that would be a reduction in auto-attack damage vs champions when compared to something like IE or Dancer in exchange for increased siege power. I'm not sure how Bruisers would really feel about an item like that. It would be a heavy investment with no defensive value to speak of (not even Lifesteal!)
As I said, this has always struck me as a hole in the game's itemization. Armor pen doesn't work on towers. Crit doesn't work on towers, either. There's no DPS item focused on eating one of the game's most important objectives. And with the addition of all these anti-siege options cropping up in the game, I can imagine it would be nice to add a siege option that provides improved tower crushing at the expense of champion crushing.
SexyTaylorSwift3 votesSo, the highest AD amount from an item as well as the second highest AS (I think) with a passive? Ok, but let's make a 1000 health item with 100 armor and a passive that takes 50% less damage from AAs.
Rebonack1 votesSo, the highest AD amount from an item as well as the second highest AS (I think) with a passive? Ok, but let's make a 1000 health item with 100 armor and a passive that takes 50% less damage from AAs.
80 AD is pretty much standard on high-end AD items (Reaver, IE, Thirster, Maw gets 90 at full power).
50% IAS is standard on high-end IAS items (Nashor and Wit's). Dancer and Hurricane (lol) both give more.
But do note that I suggested a range of IAS and AD on both.
But sure, let's toss in a 1000 HP and 100 armor item as well just to see what happens.
Taarki1 votesThis item is going to cost like 4k gold?
Rock Rockburgh1 votesThat seems like it would be a bit cheap, really.
BFS: +50AD, 1550g Dagger x3: +45%AS, 1350g (because screw Recurve Bows) Subtotal: 2900g
Recipe: +25AD, ~700g? +range vs. towers, ?????g.
Pricing that would be REALLY difficult, especially without any numbers. It wouldn't make a huge difference for ranged champs unless it let you outrange the tower, in which case it would be worth easily in excess of 1000g, probably over 1500. For melee champs it would be pretty nice, so it could fit around 700g. (Maybe less? Not sure on this.)
Approximate total value: 2900 +700 3600 +700 4300
So we're talking 4300g at an absolute minimum, for an item that would mostly be useful in the early game when you'd want some distance from towers. Later on people will be taking more damage, so it won't be as huge of a deal to back off the tower; your lane opponent (if you were even still laning by the time you got this) would have to leave more often, whether from low health/mana or death.
With the passive described above, a lategame item really doesn't feel right. It would have to be fairly early, since it mostly provides safety during the laning phase. Maybe something like this:
Longsword: +10AD, 360g Dagger: +15%AS, 450g Combine/Passive: ????g
As mentioned above, the item wouldn't really be useful on ranged champs unless it let you outrange the tower, in which case it would be way too expensive to buy early. So we'll say something like +[70/140] attack range vs. towers for [ranged/melee] champs.
Ranged-champ AA range increase was chosen from Tristana's stats. At level 18, her passive brings her to 703 range, as opposed to a tower's 775. +70 range would keep her just inside. (Because if it DID bring her out of range at level 18, this would be ridiculously powerful in that one niche case, and so it would need to be expensive... which would mean nobody but a fed Tristana would buy it, and only late in the game.)
This might seem to contradict my earlier statements, but I've realized something and I'm too lazy to go back and fix it; a single champ can already splitpush fairly effectively late in the game. (
, anyone?) Imagine what would happen if that champ-- that one champ, leaving the other four open to go do whatever-- could take towers without being hit, without any minions. That alone would make this item a near-optimal (if not required!) choice for any champs who could take advantage of that.
The fact of Tristana being the most likely candidate just makes the problem worse, since she's got an AS steroid built in that makes her decent at tearing down buildings anyway.
I'm rambling, though. Anyway, to finish the earlier build:
+ 
+ combine ~= 1600g, maybe?
I think that would be the best way to implement this passive, at least if we're following OP's desires for an AD+AS item.
EDIT: Holy crap that was long. Sorry.
Taarki1 votesI actually think it would be the opposite. Allowing a ranged character to outrange a turret would make it a backdoor miracle item. This would allow you to push turrets without shoving the lane. so like if you get an ace and your the only one left, as the adc, you could run and take turrets without minions. This item would have to be around 4.5k-5k gold though.
JustMyBassCannon2 votesWell, it probably shouldn't get a passive that increases attack range against towers. It would either be a pointless range increase that doesn't actually affect pushing, or it could push the longer-range Marksmen (Kog'maw, Caitlyn, Tristana, Jinx) too much. Even a range increase of 100 for them would be enough to have at least Kog'maw dancing at the edge (if not out of range) of the tower, but less than that wouldn't even be noticeable for most of them.
As for melee range increases...that's just weird for animations.
ADCs normally take down towers pretty well, despite Crit and ArPen not working, and I have difficulty seeing most of them bothering with it if it doesn't provide something as valuable as BT or IE.
That said, Bruisers would probably appreciate this greatly. Several Bruisers, despite having AD ratios, scale very well with AS. To name a few, I could quite easily build Shyvana, Irelia or Jarvan with mostly defense items, taking this for my only offense choice, and do quite well. 80 AD and 50% AS, or 70 AD and 40% AS, is a pretty large offense boost. It's true that it has no defensive value, but I could either rely on my innate defense or build it after my first defense item.
So there's definitely a group of champs that could (and possibly would) use it. Not to mention, as you said, it would probably be one of the best items for taking down towers faster as bruisers (although I don't know if they need that).
Although, I personally don't see much need for tower take-down items. S5 turrets seem exceptionally susceptible to damage, just in my opinion.
A Slime Appears1 votesThen you think for 5 seconds and realize champs that can easily split push like Tryn/Yi/Udyr/Nasus would buy this and steamroll everything. Then you realize how awful this idea is.
Rebonack2 votesBotRK's passive doesn't improve skills with AD ratios and doesn't work on towers.
There's two reasons right there.
This has always been an itemization hole in the game that strikes me as really weird.
Because both heavy AD and AS would increase damage output a ridiculous amount. Increase damage on an already OP class of champions. Think before you post OP.
You know what Crit does, right? A Crit/IAS item provides a higher DPS boost than a AD/IAS item assuming equal gold value if you have about 130 or more attack damage.
Quepha2 votesbecause the item system wasn't created to 100% always have the perfect item for what you need. it's part of the strategy of the game to pick what item will serve you the best and having the PERFECT item always available reduces the strategy and options to just memorization and calculation.
BotRK's passive doesn't improve skills with AD ratios and doesn't work on towers.
There's two reasons right there.
This has always been an itemization hole in the game that strikes me as really weird.
if your goal is to improve ad scaling spells, then you're still "wasting" item stats on that AS. you have the same "problem" as IE where you get a bunch of damage, but a lot of the item budget is on stats that do not benefit your spells except in bizarre situations.
SexyTaylorSwift2 votesI know exactly what Crit does. But, say you have 200 AD with 1.0 AS. Adding 25% crit, and even IE passive, would go about 200+200+500+200 in 4 seconds, average of about 275 damage a second. Now, lets say you have 200 AD but 1.5 AS. in 4 seconds, you hit 6 times, total of 1200 damage, for about 300 per second. So, for ADCs to already be stronger than most things, and never going to get nerfed as a whole, you want to increase damage.
These numbers are completely made up, so take it with a grain of salt. I am not sure what your "heavy AS" boost would be, but I can see that going badly. There are some items that give both, buffing them to "heavy" numbers would be nuts.
Sire Hippington1 votesif we asume a base as from 0.650, which should be close to the avverage between all adc, you would need 77% as to get that 0.5 AS increase, which equals
(2250g)
IE gives crit worth ~1230g, ad worth 2740g, so even without it'S passive it is already over 100% gold efficient
Since it increases the power of crits by 50%, one could note it beeing worth 50% of your crits goldvalue, so with IE alone 615g.
With that, IE's crit+passive is at 1845g for ruthly the same dps-increase as 2250g of AS would give.
This doesn't even take into accord that it incraeses the power of future crits aswell, and yet it is already more gold-efficient than AS.
So the conclusion is simple, if one would want ad and aa-dps, crit is just more efficient than as and therefor a as-ad item would be either incredible cost-efficient or worse than a crit path, and if u don't need the ad but only aa-dps, on-hits like BotrK are the way to go.
Hoever, this kinda gives the idea how absurdly strong crit is(especially IE, it gives you dps equaly to an 80ad+~70%as item, so with 
+
u ruthly deal the same dps as someone with 
)
So yes, by going with how strong crit is, it is unfathomable that someone would not want to get more crit rather than something else.
Rebonack1 votes[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oIBNoRus,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2014-12-24T20:49:39.938+0000) Stuff about how crazy-strong IE is.
Thank you for doing a wonderful job of explaining why IAS/Crit is superior to IAS/AD after picking up Infinity Edge. This nicely supports what I've been getting at in this topic, eg, that if you want to optimize your auto-attack DPS against champions IAS/Crit is just plain better.
That's why I'm imagining here an item designed to provide power elsewhere, specifically in the realm of taking towers where Crit doesn't help.
ModThe Djinn2 votes{quoted} That's why I'm imagining here an item designed to provide power elsewhere, specifically in the realm of taking towers where Crit doesn't help.
If that's your goal (and that is indeed the only place where I can see wanting AS/AD over AD/Crit, save maybe if there's ever a bruiser with Riven-like base AD scaling and powerful on-hit abilities), I think you would cause a lot less build confusion by making it a bit more apparent. Something like this, perhaps:
Hextech Cannon +80 AD +60 Auto-attack range [ranged only] Unique Passive: Barrage -- Attacks against Buildings and Epic Monsters grant 20% bonus attack speed, stacking up to 4 times. These stacks decay at a rate of 1 per 2 seconds after you last attacked a Building or Epic Monster.
Taarki1 votesThe AD wouldn't be 200 if you bought AS to get to 1.5. Because the IE gives out attack damage, you would have to lower the AD on the 1.5 AS down to 120, which means 120x6=720 over 4 seconds which averages 180 damage/second. Which is way lower than 275 damage/second.
SeCKS Egai1 votesBotRK's passive doesn't improve skills with AD ratios and doesn't work on towers.
There's two reasons right there.
This has always been an itemization hole in the game that strikes me as really weird.
You know what Crit does, right? A Crit/IAS item provides a higher DPS boost than a AD/IAS item assuming equal gold value if you have about 130 or more attack damage.
BotRK was pretty much the first true AD item with attack speed that I can remember. Sure it may not be heavy in base AD for rations and crit calcs, but it didn't even have attack speed on its release.
I mean technically ghost blade has a speed boosting active, but botrk is strong enough to address a lot of situations. I remember when BT was our only lifesteal other than starks, and that item was better suited to the supports. Oh wait, I think executioner's had lifesteal for a while, or maybe it was just crit chance I can't even remember anymore.
Simply put be grateful we've got options as adc builds used to be even more static than they are now.
DJ Siamak1 votesbecause if you need both you're probably fine with just BotRK
There is literally 0 reason why somebody would benefit from both stats but not from the BotRK passive.
IAM2FKINGKawaii1 votes
BuyMeSkinsPls1 votesYes, Denting Blows is pretty nice but that's not what OP is talking about
Kingsgrave1 votesIt scales with itself too hard.
With high AD you want high AS and with high AS you want high AD. An item that gives you both of those stats in a large quantity is just too much of a power spike.
AccountaBilabudy1 votessomething like +60 AD +40% AS?
Rebonack1 votesWell, it probably shouldn't get a passive that increases attack range against towers.
Or increased damage against towers, or increased something against towers. Some small amount of True Damage OnHit vs towers, maybe? The precise nature of the passive really wouldn't matter that much, just so long as it is clear that this is a tower-busting item primarily and a champion busting item secondarily.
It scales with itself too hard.
With high AD you want high AS and with high AS you want high AD. An item that gives you both of those stats in a large quantity is just too much of a power spike.
So... like Phantom Dancer after you've gotten any degree of Attack Damage? I'll mention again, Crit is more cost-effective than AD once your AD is above 130 or so.