Hybrid Pen Runes on who?

Fat Bastard GOD··1 votes·4,872 views

DISCLAIMER I know Jax uses them, you don't have to mention Jax, I fully understand he is the definition of Hybrid. Thanks for all the feedback so far!

I know Jax could make fantastic use of them, but what about Nasus and Sion ? They both have magic damage and physical damage. Many tanks have hybrid damage and I was wondering if you would take hybrid pen. runes on them.

What your thoughts?

21 Comments

MisterHealYoGirl3 votes

Orianna has really obnoxious mixed autoattack harass in the early game, and hybrid pen helps with that. Same with Sona and TF, although TF might do better with straight magic pen.

Xicashina2 votes

There good on Akali, Eve, Elise, Nidalee, and some others

I think most tanks would prefer just tank runes/masteries though

Karma Deified2 votes

Shyvana Shen Orianna Akali Diana Kayle Kennen Rammus Teemo Thresh Warwick

Woodakoodashooda2 votes

Evelynn Her AS buff coupled with the Armor pen that hybrid pen offers allows her to clear the jungle very quickly.

Diana Her passive is all about maximizing her damage with her 3rd auto against a target.

Ekko Another champion with an on-hit passive who benefits from breaking through both armor and resistance.

Fizz Empowers his trident so his autos deal additional damage.

Katarina Her autos deals additional damage to marked enemies, consuming the mark.

Lulu Pix deals bonus damage to whatever she attacks.

Lux Like Kat, her autos deal bonus damage to enemies she marks, consuming the mark.

Malzahar His voidlings scale with armor penetration.

Teemo A mostly AA champion.

Sona Her passive empowers her basic attacks through the use of her abilities.

DeathBurst1 votes

You're wrong on a lot of them. Sona deals bonus magic damage, so does Pix from Lulu, and Lux passive. You're better off with straight Magic Pen, not hybrid. I suspect Ekko, Kata and Fizz are the same, but I don't play them, so I'm not so sure.

The only ones I agree with you on are Malza and Teemo. And for Malza, I'm not even sure.

Woodakoodashooda2 votes

I am merely pointing out that Armor Pen can optimize any champion's basic attacks. Many of the champions I listed benefit from additional effects from their Autos; so, why not further enhance those attacks with hybrid penetration?

DeathBurst1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chocolate Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nxMNGBYM,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2016-01-15T17:28:25.870+0000)

Many of the champions I listed benefit from additional effects from their Autos; so, why not further enhance those attacks with hybrid penetration?

Because if you deal 50 physical damage with your base AD + 100 bonus magical damage with your "enhancement", then you effectively deal more damage with straight Magic Pen than with Hybrid Pen, because the share of magic damage you deal is more important to get Pen. It's a matter of proportion between the physical and magical damage.

Also, even if for the enhanced autos the share is close to 50-50, sometimes it's not worth decreasing your Magic Pen that will be useful on your other skills too, and not just on the enhanced autos, to get a slight increase in Armor Pen that will be useful only for the enhanced autos.

Hope that helps ;)

DeathBurst1 votes

As a quick example with real numbers, for Sona:

Level 5 Blue powerchord deals more damage than your base AD, even without AP at all. So it means from level 5 you are better with straight Magic Pen.

And this is neglecting some stuff that also pushes toward straight Magic Pen:

  • You may have AP in your Runes/Masteries, or build some items for it.
  • Magic Pen also increases damage from your blue missiles and your ult, nor just the enhanced basic attacks.
EndlessSorcerer1 votes

Actually, Voidlings deal magic damage now.

Teemo is better off using straight attack speed rather than penetration.

DeathBurst1 votes

Yeah, Malza changed a lot in the last few months, that's why I said I wasn't sure.

And good point for Teemo. I was so deep in the Hybrid vs Magic Pen question that I didn't stop to wonder if Pen at all was the right choice. ^^'

DeathBurst2 votes

Specifically for Sion, I think Armor Pen are better if you max Q. If you max E then W second, Hybrid Pen may be cool (typically, when you will be bullied and you'll just try to poke and farm from afar). But if you max Q, 90% of your damage output in lane will be physical anyway.

And for Nasus, I don't play him so I am not sure, but on paper, I think it is so much better to have bigger Pen for your Q than medium Pen for both Q and E that I would never use Hybrid Pen on him. Your Q will be the most of your damage, unless you're playing some strange Support Nasus and maxing the Armor Shred.

Generally, if you deal "hybrid" damage but with shares of 70% - 30%, it's better to take Pen for the 70% part, not hybrid, and you can have a look on champion.gg for the shares. According to champion.gg, both Nasus and Sion deal roughly two times more physical than magic damage.

This is not a perfect way to make your decision, because for instance you'll deal much more Physical damage in late game, but maybe in lane your shares are closer to 50-50 so it would be cool to take Hybrid Pen for laning phase, but as a rule of thumb, it still works pretty well.

Z Statistic2 votes

Pretty much every mage, AP assassin, and AP support.

The exceptions are those who cannot afford to AA harass in lane like Karthus or Anivia or Fiddle in the Middle. Even Xerath would benefit from them as his passive revolves around autoing champions.

Fanny Forecast1 votes

Nami

xSleepy1 votes

i used hybrid pens on supports for a while because it helped damage in the lane phase on just about everyone. the only exception was thresh, where i ran ad marks so i could last hit for relic. after awhile i moved away from it a bit, but i still use them occasionally on champs like lulu or morgana who take spellthiefs, since i don't wanna use up all my mana in lane but i want to harass. so i auto a lot in between spells. helps quite a bit!

Sohleks1 votes

Generally best on some top lane tanks with mixed dmg or ap champs that AA a lot early or buy sheen. Fizz Orianna Shen Malphite

It's odd because some true hybrid champions I still recommend the AD marks, pretty much the ones with AD ratios. Jax Evelynn Corki Kennen

So I think of hybrid pen marks as a slight tweak to magic pen runes.

Fat Bastard GOD1 votes

Thanks for the feed back guys!

BD Wilton1 votes

Teemo, Blitz Supp for me

Weathered1 votes

Shaco Can work if you plan on invading their buff lvl 2 and want to cut off exits with boxes. You also can get the pen on your E

The Deckowner1 votes

every champion who have good use of a shen/lichbane/sometimes triforce can use hybird pen quite well. and champion with auto attack enchantment can use hybird pen too.

examples: tf diana ekko lulu sona oriana fizz corki

Extrana1 votes

champions i use it for: Evelynn Jax Rammus Shen Corki Akali Malphite Leona DrMundo some situationally, some only when i want to go full dmg and pretend being tanky isnt a thing

Extrana1 votes

Kayle too

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