Jhin's ult CD vs Xerath's ult CD

Fat Bastard GOD·Jan 31, 2016·97 votes·6,043 views

Jhin's ultimate refunds the CD based on how many shots you didn't cast/remaining shots. Xerath's ultimate CD is lowered (split) only if you didn't cast ANY shots. Could Xerath's ultimate CD work the same as Jhin's?

EDIT: Some of you guys think that I mean Xerath should have FOUR shots. That is NOT what I am saying.

**EDIT 2:**I have an idea for a Xerath CD similar to Jhin's.

• If Rite of the Arcane is canceled via enemy, Rite of the Arcane is put on full CD •Rite of the Arcane's CD is also based on the amount of shots not fired (no pun intended)

45 Comments

ModWulf HelhammerJan 31, 201617 votes

I think the difference is that Jhin's ult, while still having great range, is limited to that cone. Of the enemy walks out of it (to the side), he's stuck. Meanwhile Xerath's is a circle, meaning it is much harder to simply walk out of its range

Urgonnalearn2dayFeb 1, 20167 votes

{quoted}

I think the difference is that Jhin's ult, while still having great range, is limited to that cone. Of the enemy walks out of it (to the side), he's stuck. Meanwhile Xerath's is a circle, meaning it is much harder to simply walk out of its range

Much easier to land Jhin's though...

ModWulf HelhammerFeb 1, 201610 votes

But his can also be blocked, as well as only hitting on champion at a time.

Xerath's has neither of these drawbacks

S H A Y C 0Feb 1, 20161 votes

lets not forget about jhins equally long ranged minion piercing champion stun that makes ults easier to land.

RyzeReworkFeb 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I think the difference is that Jhin's ult, while still having great range, is limited to that cone. Of the enemy walks out of it (to the side), he's stuck. Meanwhile Xerath's is a circle, meaning it is much harder to simply walk out of its range

Yeah covers more of an area but I mean its comparable to say p antheons channeled ult cancles refunds cd till like 10 secs or something but for poppy her cd goes to 30 seconds if unused

SpecterVonBarenFeb 1, 20169 votes

I'd rather they just change his ult altogether.

Bladerunner7777Feb 1, 20168 votes

Just make Xerath's ult have more explosions/eye candy and we will call it a day

SaiannaJan 31, 20165 votes

Or better, make Xeraths (and Jhins) ultimate ammo based (like Corki/Teemo).

ModWulf HelhammerJan 31, 201640 votes

Um...as a Xerath player, that would simultaneously be broken and the worst feeling a Xerath could have, depending on how many shots you had at a given time

SaiannaFeb 1, 20163 votes

3? as right now?

I though it was obvious..

ModWulf HelhammerFeb 1, 20162 votes

Yes, but if it didn't have a cool down, and was instead an ammo system, he could theoretically have it up every time he needed it.

At the same time, if he didn't have 3 shots, it would be horrible for the Xerath

SaiannaFeb 1, 20161 votes

I'm not sure if It's worth giving Jhin a ammo system. Just tossed that out, as their ultimates are somehow similar.

About Xerath. Either he has ammo system, or not it's still kind of lame pew pew pew rain drops.

Fat Bastard GODFeb 1, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Um...as a Xerath player, that would simultaneously be broken and the worst feeling a Xerath could have, depending on how many shots you had at a given time

How would a refunded CD be broken? I've had multiple times where I fire off a shot and the enemy is killed before it hits them.

ModWulf HelhammerFeb 1, 20168 votes

No, not a cd refund, an ammo system. I gave my reasoning why he doesn't have a cd refund below

Papa SlothyFeb 2, 20161 votes

ammo system means harass and ksing for days

PaiRezaFeb 1, 20161 votes

I think an ammo system similar to ahri's ult would be great and the CD is based on the number of shots left after canceling the ult. That way, it wouldn't be broken like corki's ult where he fires one every 10 sec and also have an ammo indicator for how many shots you have left.

SettDownShutUpFeb 1, 20163 votes

I actually liked this idea.

EnchantéFeb 1, 20161 votes

that's broken...

but I like broken *kappa

S H A Y C 0Feb 1, 20161 votes

unless you severely nerf the damage so it is like corki's and has minimal effect, this is an unhealthy change. i am pretty sure no xerath player wants his damage reduced.

SaiannaFeb 1, 20161 votes

Considering size & speed of this salty teardrop of Xerath I'd risk leaving damage as is.

Maybe I had never faced a really skilled Xerath, but dodging that ultimate is childsplay.

SpinnerMaskFeb 1, 20165 votes

While I would love this on xerath, keep in mind jhin's last hit does MORE damage then the rest. So he uses a lot less power on the first ones, compared to xerath who has less shots, more power per shots cause of that, and each shot is equal in power. plus the whole cone vs circle thing. I would like it to be a bit more forgiving though. 1/2 for not using any shots, maybee take the rest of the time out for that? aka instead of doing 1/2 cooldown, make if he fires one it 1/3 done cooling down? and so on for the other shots.

Hay5eedFeb 1, 20161 votes

Yes but how often would is it REALLY important that Xerath has a circular AOE ult? You usually just ult to take out stragglers or to do damage in a team fight, you don't need a giant circle to do that

NichtHurzFeb 1, 20163 votes

It still makes him alot more flexible when it comes to using the ult. If you've got baron fight and the enemy team retreats being split up (taking the top lane path and the mid lane path) you can use Xerath's ult to finish off people whatever path they take, Jhin needs to decide in which direction he wants to use it, it's alot easier to walk out of the cone and he can't fire his shots as fast as a Xerath. I think it would be fair to have cd refunded for not using all three shots with Xerath, but the amount of cd refunded should be way less than Jhin's. Especially if you think about all his other quite long range abilites, Jhin does only have his W for high range dmg and a chance of rooting the enemy.

Edit: + your teammates can protect you from Jhins ult just by standing in front of you,

LlaniteFeb 1, 20165 votes

I never understand these kinds of reasoning

Ability A has X. Ability B, which functions 100% different, hence, should also has X.

Uh, really?

ShrîkeFeb 1, 20163 votes

I agree people are dumb. Two completely different champions so since one is similar let's make them identical cuz it's not fair.

TeCoolMageFeb 1, 20169 votes

Yeah, really, because it's not 100% different.

It's even harder to understand

Ability A has been suggested to have X Ability B has X

The fact ability B has X suddenly makes ability A unable to have it too.

Xerath needs it more than Jhin.

LlaniteFeb 2, 20161 votes

Ability B having X does not eliminate the chance Ability A having X, but does not provide a reason why Ability B should have X either.

If someone suggests Ability A to have X, he/she needs to provide a rationale, and that's not "Ability B also has X". By that logic, I must request Jihn R to become an AOE, he also should not be locked into one direction either, because Xerath isn't during his ult.

Ezreal R should also deal dmg on missing health too, since Jinx R has it. While we're at it, Pantheon ult should also reveal all targets, because TF ult does.

TeCoolMageFeb 2, 20161 votes

but at no point of the post does it say "Xerath should receive cooldown reduction because of Jhin"

it says "Xerath should receive cooldown reduction like Jhin"

The two are completely different, and the post is justified because Xerath actually needs it as he's more reliant on his abilities than Jhin, but is completely unable to take risks like him knowing that the ulti will go into a huge cooldown after the first shot.

LlaniteFeb 4, 20161 votes

Everyone relies on their abilities. By your logic, Ahri should have her ult refunded if she didn't use all 3 charges? Khazix? It's totally unrealistic and people will start using it to scare others away, giving it unnecessary advantages.

TeCoolMageFeb 4, 20161 votes

more reliant

Emphasis on more

LlaniteFeb 4, 20161 votes

And who is to decide who need something 'more'?

TeCoolMageFeb 5, 20161 votes

It's the entire point of the discussion and it's pretty obvious otherwise... Who defines Ashe as more auto reliant than Soraka?

LlaniteFeb 5, 20161 votes

And you keep saying he 'needs' buff because, well, "he needs it", without any justification, render the whole argument pointless.

TeCoolMageFeb 6, 20161 votes

no, I'm saying he's more reliant on his abilities, and if you want arguments for Xerath needing buffs, just research it instead of using "Oh well, if Xerath needs it then Ahri needs it too because if two champions have something in common, ALL of them should have it in common"

I'm not going to give you a list of reasons as to why Xerath needs a buff, as the point of this conversation was to establish that the reasons weren't "simply because Jhin had it", stop trying to derail an argument made to derail the entire topic.

LlaniteFeb 6, 20161 votes

To this point, you have not provided any justification why Xerath should have what Jihn has, besides you subjective 'because I think so'.

Good luck convincing Riot with that. /Thread.

TeCoolMageFeb 6, 20161 votes

because the entire point was to establish that the fact Jhin had it was not a reason in itself, and that your original comment was unrelated to the discussion and was derailing the entire thing. You then proceeded to try derailing THIS conversation by circling back to why Xerath needed buffs despite the conversation being about the fact Jhin having this trait wasn't a reason.

You're not Riot. I'm not going to convince YOU because you've done nothing but make a smartass comment on an actual discussion.

AuroramancerFeb 1, 20164 votes

No.

Xerath ult is not influenced by unit collision, and the area of effect is a full circle, not a restricted cone.

TeCoolMageFeb 1, 20163 votes

"full circle" is technically true but extremely misleading.

CaythelesFeb 1, 20164 votes

Um, why are you comparing the two ults? Xerath can do aoe dmg to all the people in the blast, and can go all around him. Jhin only hasa certain direction he can shoot and it can be body blocked by the tanks.

Both of these ults are completely different.

ofartFeb 1, 20163 votes

Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense and it's not like it would suddenly make Xerath OP. Great idea!

JasiwelFeb 1, 20162 votes

I'm not totally on board with it. While Xerath could use some love, I don't think this comparison is the best. The champions are exceptionally different and Xerath can shoot in any direction, whereas Jhin has only a cone in front of him where the shots are blockable.

That said, I think it's a suggestion worth trying as a large QoL buff, but keep in mind it would be a strong buff.