Faker wants old Leblanc! - Pro players and SivHD opinion on Leblanc.

Zed K Haha·Jul 25, 2017·85 votes·9,179 views

Perkz and Febiven - Old Leblanc is less OP than reworked Leblanc https://clips.twitch.tv/ShyTastyPrariedogSoonerLater

Faker - Prefer old Leblanc. https://clips.twitch.tv/DoubtfulVenomousJalapenoWoofer

Bjergsen - Confirms that old Leblanc was more fun to play than reworked Leblanc https://clips.twitch.tv/FilthySpicyGaurJKanStyle

Doublelift - Reason why old Leblanc have a higher ban rate than old Leblanc in LCS https://clips.twitch.tv/LovelyTangentialCurlewSwiftRage

Bjergsen - Confirms that reworked Leblanc is way more broken than the old Leblanc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yULT2xvaQGI

Bjergsen - Think that the new clone is not deceiving. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DoLr3y8Bk4&feature=youtu.be

The reason Bjergsen is saying, that Leblanc's new clone is not very decieving, is because he have experienced Leblanc's old passive(Mirror Image). With this passive Leblanc creates a Controllable clone which lasts for 8 seconds or until killed. Which Bjergsen felt is much more deceiving.

Svenskeren - Opinion on the reworked Leblanc and the reason he is banning her every game. https://clips.twitch.tv/ImportantCheerfulPeachUWot

Shiptur - Think reworked Leblanc is less fun to play https://clips.twitch.tv/SpeedySavoryAsparagusTBTacoRight

Redmercy - Liked old Leblanc and think new Leblanc is weird. https://clips.twitch.tv/RespectfulAgreeablePhoneRlyTho

LLStylez - Reworked Leblanc is more OP/cancer than old Leblanc, because of the new Mimic https://clips.twitch.tv/AbstemiousHelplessFriseeKappa

SivHD - Opinion on the reworked Leblanc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIHiSh5_UW8

SivHD - Wants the passive(Mirror Image) back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEM6EOlBzQQ

My idea My idea is to revert Leblanc's rework but nerf her Q(Sigil Of Malice) damage, so she doesn't rely on the Q-RQ combo. This will lead Leblanc to use her W and RW more to engage and do damage with. And by doing this, Leblanc have to be in the enemies faces to do damage, which gives the enemy team, to have a higher chance to lock her down(CC) or hit their ability and do some damage back to her.

164 Comments

SeolhyunariJul 25, 201752 votes

Old LB was a lot better I agree, she was unhealthy sure but the rework didn't exactly make her healthy and took away the fun aspect too.

EDIT: Wanted to explain myself a bit more, when Riot announced the rework they complained that old LB was not 'deceptive enough', unhealthy and hard to punish, specifically her WQR (which didn't really one shot unless you were 20/0 but lets pretend it did).

First of all no one is deceived by the 2 second ult clones, and as you can see from the videos, many people preferred the old longer passive clone and thought it was much more deceptive.

Secondly if you wanted to make her more punishable why take away all the damage from her W and stop her from ever having to dash into melee range in the first place? Old LB also had a slower dash speed so it was easier to CC her as she dashed in, literally no one asked for a faster W to compensate a passive cook time.

And finally if you thought her WQR was toxic why not just redistribute the sigil damage from 50/50 to 30/70 so that she had to hit her E to assassinate a target? Why move all the damage to the passive so her combo is literally still WQR (+ Gunblade) and she never has to hit her E to assassinate late game?

As you can see the rework solved no problems and created more, I think if they are gonna do any more changes they should revert the rework and start up from old LB's kit.

RainbowIceeJul 25, 20173 votes

problem was that old lb was too damn strong and you didn't even need to be good with her to succeed. It's just that when you was good you was nearly unsupportable. She should not go back exactly to how she was. She does need some changes

Fisher No ChainsJul 25, 201722 votes

What? You didn't even need to be good? I admit that her laning phase was a bit retarded, but if you were bad at her you made the game 4v6 because there was no way you could do shit mid and late if you were bad lol.

If the enemy LB was good at her you could be good enough to insta CC chain her every time she used W offensively. Or you could get MR and shut her down completely because all she was good at was oneshotting someone and then die/be useless. Remember that if LB couldn't do her "kill and die" job she was totally worthless. She could't even split push decently because her waveclear sucked balls and having no ult meant no kill/no chance to duel late game carries.

So, new LB is way worse. Her gameplay is just too different and some die hard mains, just like me, are really upset about those changes that made her a hybrid abomination.

RainbowIceeJul 25, 20172 votes

You're just throwing a random tantrum at me with no proper valid argument. You're arguing at a bad player that can potentially mess up any champion. A normal player being the most common one was able to pull lb off no problem, so you was better than a random player that decided to play lb once in a while does that mean they were not viable? nope. They fed so the champion was "not that strong" not really. I can vouch for her not having a high learning curve because i myself had no big problems pulling her off and by no means did i ever consider myself a "good lb" player. Her burst came too easy, Q and R and a E to over punish if necessary. She does have a high ceiling cap ( still does ) but that ceiling cap only made her much much worse and oppressive than she should be. Her passive allowed her to escape damage if anyone managed to catch her and her W allowed for a great escape ever more so if the R was available. You should try playing talon or something and realize that some assassin's require placing themselves n danger to do their assassination. I don't disagree entirely new leblanc is not that good, but old leblac was way too good. She should not go back to how she was. She had a safe lane phase, and easy access to burst on low cd's. Maybe she couldn't jump from 1 target to the other, is that what bothers you? you want a 1 button champ that wins the game? She was too good at nitpicking at target to kill better than even fizz and akali. So yea you may not like it but you're just being biased, she was not a healthy champ to have around. How much you dislike this one it does a lot less harm to the overall game than the old one.

Fisher No ChainsJul 25, 201716 votes

I agree that a decent player could play her, but you could notice the difference when X Pro played her and when Faker/HotShot played her. She wasn't a QR bot, she had way more depth than the current "spam chains and deal damage" LB. Her mobility could let her escape, if only she wasn't one of the squishiest champions in the game with no defense except for her passive. A 1.25s stun was more than enough to burst her to death.

You say that she was a "1 button champion that wins the game". Then why was LB always at a 47/48% WR with an awful play rate? I mean, you said it was easy to play and win with her!

As for being too good of an assassin, she did what she was supposed to. She killed squishies, then she died/she helped with chains or stuff like that, but she HAD to get close to deal damage like every assassin in the game. A Hexdrinker was enough for an ADC to survive her burst and wait for his team to stun her and kill her. And I'm not even counting that her old E, used to proc RQ, had a stupidly slow projectile speed and was way shorter than the current one.

KloqdqJul 25, 201735 votes

Couldn't agree more with this. LeBlanc just isn't the same champion anymore.

sardiniiiJul 25, 20173 votes

Reworks do that

KloqdqJul 25, 201716 votes

Yeah but this one changed the fundamental ideas behind the old one and missed the mark in mimicking it. LeBlanc was good at tricking opponents and picking off single targets. Now she is some weird mage-assassin hybrid that can hit multiple enemies for massive damage and is more invested in her E than anything.

She is slower and honestly more clunky with her weaknesses being covered up with this rework (pushing her in hard early and bad teamfighter). Instead of that they failed to refine what makes LeBlanc special and just ruined her.

BerylCrabJul 25, 20171 votes

as did the sion rework, as did the taric rework, as did the gp rework

KloqdqJul 25, 201710 votes

Frankly, all three of those reworks completely improved upon the champions. Comparing LeBlanc's rework (really it was just a gameplay update) to something like Taric or Sion (which made the champions actually playable and gave them an amazing theme) is missing the issues with the LeBlanc update.

LeBlanc lost elements that made her special, while giving her traits that missed the point of the original design (which they didn't change) while also making her far worse of.

For example, the passive was moved to ult in a "ult" that feels like I wasted it every time I use it. Mostly because I have no real control over it and it doesn't really "trick" anyone. Really all I can say that ult is for now is scouting an area and THAT ISN'T THE POINT OF IT.

The passive creates a layer of issues on itself while frankly making LeBlanc less healthy. They give her AoE damage and wave clear. Not a great choice. Then they front load her damage in one time (this houses ALL of LeBlanc's damage) while making an awful delay time that doesn't slow the problem LeBlanc has and make it annoying for everyone involved in the matter (LeBlanc has no damage due to the delay and everyone else has to just avoid her. It's not like death mark where it is just an extra amount to help finish off someone or Talon's bleed. IT'S ALL HER DAMAGE).

These problems layer themselves and mean LeBlanc feels awful to play in the majority of cases. There is also the problem of the way ult worked. Frankly, having LeBlanc having to cast the last ability again created a skill gap on the champion. You wouldn't notice it if you didn't play a lot of LB before and after but if you did, you really feel it. Not only this, it also kept her in line. She couldn't just chain and then QR she had to E then Q AND THEN QR. Now you can just go - E RQ. This doesn't seem like a lot but it actually opens up a lot more options for any LB and means she is simpler to play (you have to care less about what you are using) while you also don't create the delays that gated her in a way. You had to use your last ability meaning you need to think ahead in your combo. Now it just is simpler.

This all compact to not only miss the point of LeBlanc, but create serve health problems that alienate LeBlanc players, old and new frankly.

Zed K HahaJul 25, 20176 votes

You have many good points in there.

KloqdqJul 25, 20179 votes

I really love LB. Seeing her in the current state just makes me really sad.

PoskeJul 26, 20171 votes

He has no points

allowing le bl to choose what she uses after R gives her more options and raises her skillcap not the opposite He sucks at using RR just as siv HD does. Go find my big post i give you 11 ways on how to use it properly

I agree that her passive has a bit to much power Insane ratio and what 300 base dmg yes.....

I would like for that dmg to be spread about a bit maybe put some on her distortion back

KloqdqJul 26, 20176 votes

Raises her skillcap? Lol do you even know how easy it is compared to prior LeBlanc. When you are forced into a delay or a situation, that means you either have to think quickly or plan ahead. With old R you were forced to cast your last ability meaning you had to plan 2 steps ahead of your ability casts to maximize your potential in dodge, team fighting, juking, etc.

The current R just lets you cast your abilities in whatever order you want. The thought process is simpler because you don't really need to plan ahead and think about it. No player should ever be tricked by the RR. It is an AI you have no control over. Because you can't control it and it moves VERY predictably.

BerylCrabJul 26, 20172 votes

The champions were perfectly playable before, and infact in sion and taric's cases were actually better chamions. I used both of them to climb to diamond and had well over 50% winrate on both in high level ranked play. You can say whatever you want but in reality, they deleted peoples mains.

KloqdqJul 26, 20175 votes

I played both. Both had a lot of gameplay issues. Sion was weird with either full ap or full ad. Both of which had their own issues. Sion and Taric had massively outdated kits that as we got champions like Lucian, Kayn, Rek'Sai, etc. would slowly remove their power. The two are now not only more interesting but engaging. There is actually something to sink your teeth into. Sion was stupidly easy and Taric was easily kicked down by anyone with a brain. They will be different from what people played but they just didn't fit into the game anymore. Urgot, Poppy, WW, Galio, etc all deserve their updates and they all greatly improved for it.

Some may change a lot more like Galio or Sion but they are now great champions.

PoskeJul 26, 20172 votes

This is just blatantly wrong

Rework actually improved her juking. She has 3 ways to juke now, whole goal of riot was to improve her trickiness LB AOE damage is her biggest weakness atm ever since distortion nerfs

She used to be to invested In W year ago, She used to be to invested in Q 5 years ago. I dont see your point I assure you she isnt a chain bot... you might be mimicking her chain to often. Well if you are building her wrongly I understand...

If anything she is invested in item power spikes atm

How is she slower? Dafak? her distortion speed literaly got buffed. If anything she is more spooky now, you should have said her burst is slower I guess which was the whole point of assassin rework

She is clunky to you get good Real talk there are some buggs where you cant AA while q is bouncing. Only thing clunky about her atm..

Her waveclear power at current time isnt better then it was pre rework after all the nerfs. You can still push her in specially with 18 sec cooldown on distortion and her requiring 2 abilities to dmg minions (She can clear entire wave with wq later on and even then its delayed)

She is still a bad teamfighter compared to any mage. You want to pick of with her. Granted great le bl players can pick off in teamfights to

DO YOU EVEN FKING PLAY LE BL ?

KloqdqJul 26, 20179 votes

Honestly you make some points but I just don't see it. LB's changes were the wrong direction. They didn't fix her problems and created new ones. Now the champion has been gutted and she will never be changed because Riot broke her.

Passive was a nice direction but it holds all LBs damage and it is front loaded in this one think. Not only does it make LBs burst subpar, it means you get the old Rengar Q where once it goes off it just blows the person up. Zed Passive, Talon Passive, Kat Passive, Ekko Passive, etc. They all just add a little bit to their damage, damage potential, or utility. This one holds everything in her kit hostage and makes her always need 1.5 seconds to be viable unless you got active items which is a terrible design choice.

Q giving her wave clear is bad. It was her one weakness and now she clears and pushes out a lot better. Now you can still push her in, but it punishes her a lot less likely.

W changes for the most part are fine honestly. I do think it needs a little damage back but it was fine.

E works too well with passive and was always a terrible ability on LeBlanc. It should have always been changed for real because it creates this gameplay pattern where if you get chained and have no way to get out, you are fucked and taking a massive dump of damage. Now if it procs it dumps even more damage. E is a bad design choice for an assassin and it should have been replaced.

R changes were bad. The clone is worthless. I have never seen it been used properly and even a bronze player can tell it's a fake majority of the time. Now this change of cast order does change between person to person. You like it, I do not. It feels slower to use and just doesn't feel fluid. It also dumbs down LB in my mind because you have the choice, you don't need to think a couple steps ahead to effectively maximize your potential.

This update was bad and not what LB needed. The wrong things were changed and the Passive creates a massive health issue that Riot themselves has said they don't want on another champion but it's fine here because it's slightly gated.

I know you are a diamond LB but you need to calm your ego man. There is a lot of issues with LB and you aren't 100% right. Looking at it from Gameplay and design, this was a failure and shouldn't have been done. It had some of the right ideas but missed a lot of the marks to be successful.

PoskeJul 26, 20171 votes

I am never wrong when it comes to this champ.... You dont reach a #1 LB World status while being wrong about her Yes I am cocky when it comes to le bl and few other champs... lets not say cocky lets say confident xd

Goal of assassin rework was to delay assassin burst by 1.5 seconds? It literaly did that Unless you get fed and you are at my level in terms of skil with her then you can stil delete in 0.1 seconds

Most of LB damage comes from her ultimate and items if built my way (Lichbane and revolver arent really active items..) But yeah lots of her damage is in passive I did mention somewher on this thread I would like some of that passive damage to go on her W. Precisly like 70 base dmg and 0,2 ratio

**Why was adding waveclear on her q bad? you are talking as if she has better waveclear then prerework LB which 100% is not the case. ** It was a case before all the nerfs

E is debatable. If some of passive damage comes to her distortion it wont be as bad...

R changes were fantastic. Clone changes were fantastic

Idk if amater le bl player Siv Hd cant utilize new clone because I am doing wonders with it

**I can pin point you why le bl ended up to strong **

her waveclear was to strong right out of a gate
the fact that she can RW away from danger not being locked into last spell she used
Passive has insane base dmg + ratio (They didnt decide to target it yet )

the second ended up adding a lot of power to le bl without Riot relising it

After that they literaly gutted there only to introduce new mechanic (Dont know if on purpose, I think they were trying to help shaco clone that patch, to make revolver + lichbane better on him since they directly nerfed him) in which her clone procs on hits which singlehandledly ungutted her and made her viable but not to strong

zippyHDJul 26, 20178 votes

Please stop writting in here... Your so annoying and are only spamming... Please make your own thread and spam all that you want. Much appreciated.

AzureeeJul 25, 201722 votes

Old LB > New LB not even close. Old one was actually fun to play. New one is an overpowered chore to play and play against. Also this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIHiSh5_UW8

Zed K HahaJul 25, 201712 votes

100% Agree and Siv have such a good point in this video. This point is something Riot needs to keep in mind, not only for Leblanc but for every future champion reworks.

AquariusGineJul 25, 201722 votes

I used to be a LB main, she was rewarding to play and difficult to master. I've completely stopped playing her since the last set of nerfs, not that I feel she's weak or anything, but because she's a completely different champion now.

e46 FanaticJul 25, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I've completely stopped playing her since the last set of nerfs, not that I feel she's weak or anything, but because she's a completely different champion now.

Yeah, she got reworked :'D Her rework is THE LEAST in difference if you compare to Urgot and Galio's reworks. She's the same champ with practically the same spells. The reworked LB's spells, not LB. If that makes sense lol

DonatellaVersaceJul 25, 20179 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, she got reworked :'D Her rework is THE LEAST in difference if you compare to Urgot and Galio's reworks. She's the same champ with practically the same spells. The reworked LB's spells, not LB. If that makes sense lol

Of course its not different because it was a class update, not an individual one.

Fisher No ChainsJul 25, 201720 votes

To be honest I don't think that LB is broken in SoloQ, at least under high diamond she's not even that good. She's slowly falling out of meta (tanks being strong, adcs bursting more than intended) but despite this, I bet she'll get an overall nerf just because her current state in pro play is ridiculous.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVED old LB and she was the only champion I fell in love with in the whole game, but Riot will never consider bringing old LB back. Her instant burst was unhealthy for sure, but on the other hand she had enough counterplay to actually fall off/have a rough time if your opponent knows how to build against you. But since burst window > counterplay in Riot's mind, they're not going to change her delayed burst at all.

And anyway, having a fixed time to deal your damage (like the crappy 1.5s for sigil of malice) is terrible design. You're just counterplaying yourself by waiting 1.5s to have a chance to deal some decent damage. This 1.5s shit, the W gutting, and the support items' buffs just made LB really cancer to play as. People keep complaining about her when post 20 mins she's either a walking minion or a worse Tryndamere, whereas some assassins are way worse and can actually oneshot someone. I'm sad because after 400+ games this season alone, I started thinking to quit playing my 2 years main. She's just not worth it if I want to climb.

Dani El PezgloboJul 25, 201710 votes

i loved old lb , she was funny and have counterplay (mr, zhonya and push her lane was enough to stop her) , but riot decide it was time to send lb to trash , she doesnt feel more like an assasin , she is just a poke mage, w , q , go back. 'rework assasin' means u wont be longer an assasin.

NineTailedMysticJul 25, 20171 votes

whereas some assassins are way worse and can actually oneshot someone

Just cause LB was way more oppressive in laning phase while most other Assassins had to wait til 6 for their big kill pressure spike, and laning phase is the most impactful phase in solo queue imo.

Fisher No ChainsJul 25, 20175 votes

Except that right now laning phase, at least in higher elos, is a junglers shitfest. I have trouble in solo killing my opponent (especially since it's Orianna with barrier 90% of the time) so the lane goes even and whoever gets the first successful gank wins.

Also, "most impactful", lol. What about no? I've lost games in which I stomped my lane, was roaming hard botlane giving them a lead and we still lost. No matter how hard you win your lane, the other lanes won't even try their best (especially botlane, the most important lane rn).

Prime BeholderJul 25, 201715 votes

Thank you

Sraeg2013Jul 25, 201715 votes

When I first played LeBlanc after the MYMU I genuinely felt sad for LeBlanc mains.

When you add a gimmick to an existing champion there are following outcomes:

The gimmick proves too weak and: a. The kit gets buffed to compensate then... [go to step 2] b. The gimmick gets buffed until it's relevant then... [go to step 2]
The gimmick proves too strong and: a. The kit gets nerfed to compensate resulting in feeling like shit if you don't get the gimmick to work or b. The gimmick gets nerfed to the ground making the whole change pointless or c. The gimmick gets reverted (about as rare as a good looking female virgin riding a unicorn at full moon durning solstice)

AHScovenJul 25, 201713 votes

I just do not get why riot keeps trying so hard to make this new leblanc work. I mean there's nothing wrong in admitting that you've messed up in reworking her and they need to revert her in order to start again and work harder to make old leblanc healthier. I think lot's of players would love to see old leblanc back, because there were ways to stop her in lane and there was more counterplay to her damage + chains. If I can remember correctly old Leblanc has never been a huge treat for riot, she was never a pick or ban champion not in LCS, neither in solo q. So why not reverting her? She was funny as hell and a good example of assassin and she was not this kind of weird kite mage that can burst in 1.5 seconds. (sorry if I made grammar mistakes but I am not a native English speaker.)

FilDaFunkJul 25, 201711 votes

They moved too much into her passive, just to delay her burst.

DaNinadJul 25, 20179 votes

I like how the people who got shit on by old leblanc are saying that new lb is better, even though they probably never played leblanc.

KixsyJul 25, 20179 votes

New LeBlanc is broken in competitive and isn't the greatest in Solo Queue now (in most elos). They just made a more broken LeBlanc after changing her. They should just revert the changes, and nerf the old LeBlanc to balance it out.

Zed K HahaJul 25, 20174 votes

Good point. New Leblanc have a much higher ban ratio in competitive/pro scene, than the old Leblanc.

Fisher No ChainsJul 25, 20172 votes

When LB was reworked she sat at a 47.7% winrate or something like that.

She was indeed frustrating and annoying, but she was balanced and not broken at all. Meh, she wasn't even pick or ban in competitive. :)

zippyHDJul 25, 20175 votes

That is not true at all? When LB got reworked she went from 46% winrate to 52% winrate.

Fisher No ChainsJul 25, 20176 votes

My bad, I wanted to say that OLD LB had around 47% winrate before they reworked her. I wonder why she went from 47 to 52. Good rework!

bonito boyJul 25, 20178 votes

as a leblanc main i completely agree with all of them, leblanc is less fun since the rework since you now rely on the passive dmg (which btw is fucking ridiculous amounts of dmg), if anything i think they made her worse to play against since now all you need is the passive to do dmg, which only needs an e or 2 spells. The "rework" also pretty much only changed her timings and combos order (i mean really , pre rework i use q then w in lane, now its just w then q) the spells are all basically the same its just the timing and passive reliance that makes her feel meh. dont get me wrong tho, shes still the most fun champ for me to play and will always be my favorite, but i hope the changes they are planning for her will be better than these (praying that sutff gets reverted but that probably wont happen) ^.~

FowusJul 25, 20176 votes

I miss siv

zippyHDJul 25, 20178 votes

I think we all do... You cant talk about League of Legends without mentioning SivHD, the guy who did a charity stream and made over 100.000$ for charity. And that why, he is a Legend in my eyes.

Zed K HahaJul 25, 20176 votes

Even Redmercy doesn't like the new Leblanc, you can watch the video above.

zippyHDJul 26, 20175 votes

Here is a video about old Leblanc

Who to pick against old Leblanc
How to play against old Leblanc
What to buy against old Leblanc
Her weaknesses

Then please stop talking about her, like she was an unstoppable/untouchable god.

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exWcLFALbsM

AHScovenJul 26, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Here is a video about old Leblanc

Who to pick against old Leblanc

How to play against old Leblanc

What to buy against old Leblanc

Her weaknesses

Then please stop talking about her, like she was an unstoppable/untouchable god.

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exWcLFALbsM

Amen

50ShadesOfÀDCJul 25, 20173 votes

New one is better.How many times did enemy toplaner flash from my clone or someone ulted my clone lol.

AzureeeJul 25, 20176 votes

You don't even play her friendo, like...at..all? O_o

zippyHDJul 25, 20178 votes

hahaha, that never happens now. It did with the old passive, you could make your enemy flash(chase) you and even chase your clone down with their whole combo.(See thats what i call a deceiver)

AHScovenJul 26, 20171 votes

It's really sad that Riot will probably ignore all of our requests..

Zed K HahaJul 26, 20177 votes

RIOT have not commented in this thread and will not do it sooner or later. But what i can guarantee you is, that they are seeing everything thats going on in here. And that's good since, they can use this thread as a feedback from pro players, streamers and the community who is not only from NA(That got the LB survey from RIOT). Last but not least, there is many different opinions in this thread, where we kinda get the point of view from everybody.