Can I Play Support Top?

MysterQ··1 votes·2,166 views

Is playing support in the top-lane against the rules?

If 2v1 is an advantage, it makes sense for me to go top. If I have an aggressive hook or a zoner, can't I help my toplane roll ahead. The fact that my bot is solo should be even'd out.

How many people on my team have to agree before I can do this?

8 Comments

TTK Dreadnought2 votes

Ive seen ADC/support duos go mid instead of bot and did very well.

Luxana Crowngard1 votes

you know I've never put much thought into it, Like if you were to have a carry top lane like Rumble DariusHell even Akali sometimes, and the player shows great knowledge of their champion, I'd say fuck it and go for it.

420 grams1 votes

You need 2 to agree. The top laner and the bot laner. If you don't have both, their fighter/tank will be able to farm under turret while your squishy marksmen will be getting dove bot. If anything, go for the first blood in top then go back bot, but even then your adc needs to forfeit the first wave

I always wanted to have the adc & support go top because the lane just seems better for it and then have a nasus go farm under turret bot.

MysterQ1 votes

Well I also think more laneswap wouldn't be terrible. I mean if your top is ok going bot and doing 2v1, letting an aggressive poke lane go top seems ok. Clearly don't want to push wave to turret, but it seems like an idea.

But I mean Darius and Blitz can double hook. Or just any mage to zone away and collect spellthief.

Dark Nephthys1 votes

If you are playing with a group of 5 then you can do anything you want but doing this with random people could get you reported unless your entire team agrees to it which will most likely never happen.

As for if it is a good idea or not, it's a terrible idea imo. The reason why bot lane is a duo is because ADCs are generally weak early game and really need that support to help them stay alive and set up kills for them to get stronger quicker. Also it's really bad for the top lane to be duo because it slows down their leveling and will put them at a disadvantage in exp against the opposing top laner. Yes having 2 being top would mean that you could easily kill their top laner but they could just play passive and farm under tower and then easily out-scale both of you in exp.

Top laners are usually tanks or fighters which both rely on their abilities more then ADCs do so keeping up in levels with their enemy is important. Since you wouldn't really get a chance to kill them since they can play passive, you and the support might be like level 7 and 8 compared to their top laner which is level 9-10 or so which makes a big difference once the teams start grouping up. Trying to turret dive their top laner early on is also a terrible idea as well, it's a very easy way to give them a double kill if you mess up.

Also doing this would encourage their jungler to come up top lane and force a 2v2 fight with you and that would mostly end in their favor because a Top laner + jungler would be stronger than a Top laner and support (Unless it's a mage/kill lane support), and you wouldn't expect your jungler to come help that fight since they'll be busy with trying to help the ADC that was left bot lane by themself.

Other then that, there was 2 other main reasons why it would be a bad idea. One being that reducing your top laners level and possible strength will make it much harder for them to get strong enough to split push or to be an answer to their top laner for summoner 12. The other reason is having 2 people bot lane will give you a much better chance at securing Dragons. Having the support top lane would make it much harder for you to help out in grouping for dragon if your support is top lane without summoner 12 and a fight is about to break out over it.

Sasogwa1 votes

So, to better understand why in general it is a bad idea to put a support toplane, let's go back to the basics. First off, why are the lanes divided in top, mid, jungle and bot? Why not everyone in one lane or something else? Experience and gold repartition. There are 4 sources of gold and experience in the map : Toplane, midlane, jungle, botlane. (also enemy champions, but well they go to the lanes so..) If you don't use all of these sources of gold and experience, you automatically set your team behind because it's exploiting less resources.

Yet, there are 5 people. Why did we choose to make 2 people go botlane in that case? And why is the metagame built like that (mages/assassins midlane, adc + supp botlane, etc.)? To understand that, let's go over the main characteristics of each lane: Toplane : long lane, proximity to rift herald or baron. Midlane : short lane, center of the map (can roam to both top and bot) Botlane : long lane, proximity to dragon.

The map is symetrical except for the objectives : rift herald, dragon, baron. It would seem that the only reason why we put 2 people in botlane is to have more pressure around dragon, which is a more contested objective than rift herald.

Now, the metagame. Why are those 2 people always ADC+support? reason 1) laning phase : ADC + support in laning is extremely powerful and usually beats or stays even with most matchups. 2) synergies : AD carries have extreme synergy with items, and do not really care about levels. Since they take the CS, they get all the gold in the lane, which means they have similar gold to sololaners, but less experience. Supports on the other hand, have kits that work very well in duolaning and when starving in gold/exp. They don't need that many levels/gold to be useful.

Now, in toplane most champions played there are dependent on levels mostly. They "abuse" base damages to beat their opponent if they're ahead. They care less about gold than other lanes. Because the lane is isolated (mostly because there are more people/interesting objectives earlygame in the bottom side of the map) there is less opportunities to grab a lot of gold. Toplane is the land of minion wave control because grabbing a level advantage is absolutely crucial.

In midlane, champions used have usually one or several of the following features to be a good pick : -waveclear -roaming potential -burst -range -instant mobility

In general, they have both good scaling with items AND gold. That's why they get the lane in the center of the map, where the minions arrive first so they get exp/gold slightly more quickly; and to fight in a short lane, they need either range or extremely high mobility. We see mostly burst people in the midlane also because it is a short lane, you can't chase for long before running in the enemy tower. So in general bruisers/tanks are somewhat weak in that lane.

With all those preliminary explanations, let's now say why you shouldn't bring a support toplane :

  • You're setting your laner automatically behind in experience. If the enemy laner is very good and knows how to just stay in minion exp range and doesn't even take CS, he's still ahead in terms of exp and might just beat down your laner as soon as you leave the lane.
  • You're not putting any pressure towards dragon. The enemy team is more likely to grab early drakes.
  • Your ADC botlane is likely getting more experience, which he doesn't care a lot about, but he's losing on creeps since if the other botlane isn't retarded ; they'll just deny him. Also, ADCs aren't very good at surviving towerdives because they don't have the kit for that and don't build def items early on. (Alternatively, you can put someone else botlane. But except if you take an ADC top to compensate, your team is going to lack a reliable range DPS carry. In any case, if you just get ADC+supp top and sololaner bot, you lose out on pressure around drake. Herald doesn't spawn before at least 10 minutes, and at this stage of the game in high elo games, it's like there are no real lanes attributed anymore ; unlike low elo where lanes last forever).

Hope I've helped.

MysterQ1 votes

Is this something understood at high ELOs? So they would know to adapt?

It isn't like I am totally unread. I have heard most of those things before. But I am not sure how much it matters.

Sasogwa1 votes

{quoted}

Is this something understood at high ELOs? So they would know to adapt?

It isn't like I am totally unread. I have heard most of those things before. But I am not sure how much it matters.

I guess it's just more optimal to do it that way. I remember that the laneswaps used to be a common thing when people valued denying the toplaner / getting early turrets more than the rest. I'm not quite sure to which extent it's better to have a duolane bot.

Edit : Oh I think I know. Isn't bot turret weaker than the other turrets. They did this change to prevent laneswaps, along with the first blood tower thing. You simply have to put 2 people bot else your bot tower is taken faster and the other team gets fb tower.

Yeah so most of my explanation was about why you get adc+supp and the last thing explains why the duolane is bot.

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