Late game permanent potion!

Jlesaistu·Dec 17, 2014·1 votes·666 views

I think it would be a fien addition to the game.

Rarely, but sometime, game drag on for so long than you end up with full build, those 400 potion up...and yet have thousan gold spare you simply cannot use at all...

what about adding to the game possibility to buy ultra expensive potion than woudl give you permanent bonus stats...dunno, like 50 extra ad for a 3k gold....

just so you can still increase stats (even if technically nto cost effective) when you are jsust plain full build on a long long game -_-

27 Comments

Hyrum GraffDec 17, 20143 votes

How would this be any different than adding another item slot? What effects could you see this having on long games?

JlesaistuDec 17, 20141 votes

this could actually help the team having advantage un gold but strugelling to win...you know..when you are again very good deefended team than jsut cannot push

Hyrum GraffDec 17, 20143 votes

Agreed. I'm more concerned about the other side, though -- where a team that's losing is unable to stall for long enough because enemy champs get so strong.

Right now, at some point an enemy champ reaches lvl 18 with full build, and they can't get any stronger, even though that Kat has 3k extra in the bank. It means that even when my team is behind, we can stall out the game and hope to catch up. If there were more item slots, stalling for longer would just mean that the enemy team (who can farm your jungle) would be able to get even more of a gold lead, making it harder to come back from behind.

As it is, I think there are already enough mechanics to let teams who are ahead close out the game: You have Dragon stacks (if the enemy is turtling, just keep taking drag until that 5th stack), ohmwrecker, righteous glory, and baron buff, which you can use to break through seiges, force engages, and tower dive.

Epilogue of LifeDec 17, 20141 votes

Why is stalling even a part of the gameplay...in sports, particularly fencing, you get penalty for non-combativity. The point of competative games is not to have people pussy and make no plays until 40 mins...

Hyrum GraffDec 17, 20142 votes

Because you have no other options if you're far behind.

Stalling, when done well, doesn't mean you're looking to have no interactivity. It means you're looking for a pick, where you can get just one kill, to alleviate the pressure and make up the gold difference, while you try to catch up.

Epilogue of LifeDec 17, 20141 votes

The punishments for misplaying should be way harsher. If your team is down 20 kills, you SHOULD NOT be allowed to come back...you've made so many mistakes, you don't even deserve a win. While it is still mildly tolerable that individual champs like Nasus and Singed are farm-based and late gamers, it is NOT COOL to give so many second chances to people who mess up early on.

Hyrum GraffDec 17, 20142 votes

On the flip side, though, you shouldn't lose the game because you gave up first blood.

At low elo, maybe stalling is an issue. But when players are decent, they take the advantage they have and run with it to create a bigger advantage (by forcing towers, taking dragons and barons, warding the enemy jungle and preventing them from farming). Not doing these things is a misplay by the team that is ahead, and they deserve to be punished for it, too.

There's some golden balance to be found, where, when you outplay and gain an advantage, you do feel like you're ahead, but when you're behind, you don't feel useless, either.

Epilogue of LifeDec 17, 20141 votes

But if you already given about 15 kills already, you should just keep getting #rekt. And, when you get behind, you're supposed to be kinda useless...

Hyrum GraffDec 18, 20142 votes

{quoted}

But if you already given about 15 kills already, you should just keep getting #rekt. And, when you get behind, you're supposed to be kinda useless...

I would agree with you that this is how games often work. I woudl disagree with you that this is how they should work.

If the game is so snowbally that there's no chance of coming back after you've made a few mistakes, why force the losing team to go through those minutes? Why not just say, once a team gets a 5k gold advantage, the other team automatically FFs?

Since League is a competitive e-sport, let's compare it to some other sports. In basketball, football, soccer, baseball, hockey, you-name-it, there's a certain point when one team gets so far ahead that, sure, there's a chance that the other team could come back, but realistically nobody expects that. For example, if the basketball score is 20 to 50 at halftime.

But there's a chance that they will come back. Imagine if, in basketball, as soon as one team built a 15-point lead, the game was over. That would be a much less interesting game. It could be 35-50 at halftime, and the game is over, even though it could still obviously go either way (although it's significantly more likely that the 50-point team is just better and is going to win.

The point is that, state-of-mind advantages aside, at any given moment, the losing team still has a chance to outplay and catch up a little bit.

[{quoted}](name=Sarcastic Skeptic,timestamp=2014-12-17T23:30:46.855+0000) So we should make it so both teams always have the same amount of gold and XP, right?

Well, no. Obviously those sports and league are scored way differently. Those sports are on a timer and point system, while league is on an objective system. Since death timers keep getting longer and champs keep getting stronger compared to turrets (which is necessary, so the game will end), keeping gold and XP even would be the equivalent of always keeping the scores even no matter who scores, which is dumb.

Let's go back to the sports example. The important part isn't the exact score, it's that if the leading team and the behind team both play at the same level of skill, the team with the lead is going to win. However, if the team in the lead makes mistakes, and the losing team is able to step up their game, they can take steps to get themselves back in the game.

Back to league. If your team has an advantage, and you play as well as the other team does (ie, if they're doing a good job of stalling, you're doing a good job of seiging; if they're bad at stalling, you're bad at seiging), you should win. But if your team makes mistakes, like just continuing to farm up instead of pressing your advantage, you're misplaying. If the other team is able to capitalize on these mistakes by successfully stalling, then they should be rewarded by weakening your lead a little bit.

Epilogue of LifeDec 18, 20141 votes

So the only punishment to making mistakes is having to work harder for the win...I feel like people who play stupid at ANY TIME should not get a win. Personally, I do feel like the game should be automatically ended once one team builds a certain amount of advantage, because the time, effort, and luck required in a comeback are all pretty damn taxing. I REALLY hate playing a losing game, but thats just me. I know some people out there enjoys getting analed hard for twenty five minutes and then gradually coming back, but I prefer to be the one doing the anal from minion spawn. Again, personal opinion.

Hyrum GraffDec 18, 20142 votes

{quoted}

So the only punishment to making mistakes is having to work harder for the win...

It's not just that, The enemy team also has to make a mistake. If you work harder, but the enemy team also works harder, you're still going to lose. Isn't that how sports (and well-designed games, IMO) work, though? It really sucks to be on the losing team and feel like, no matter how hard you work, and even if the enemy team misplays, the game is lost.

It's like, if the game is going to be that snowball-y, why not just have the game end at first blood?

I feel like people who play stupid at ANY TIME should not get a win.

Why? I mean, let's take this example: What if I'm playing support. I make a bad engage, and it ends with first blood and a double kill going over to the enemy. Should the game be over? What if, 5 minutes later, the enemy team makes an even bigger misplay at dragon where we end up with a clean ace (0 deaths for us)? Do we still deserve to lose because we gave an early double and FB?

Personally, I do feel like the game should be automatically ended once one team builds a certain amount of advantage, because the time, effort, and luck required in a comeback are all pretty damn taxing.

You're entitled to your opinion, it's a valid one that I totally understand. It is certainly a lot of work to come back That's why some sports have mercy rules (especially at less competitive levels), and it's why League has the surrender vote. At the same time, in my personal opinion, its' really satisfying to come back after the other team gets an early lead. It's like, "Yeah, I messed up, but I played so well that I was able to make it up."

Epilogue of LifeDec 18, 20141 votes

But more often, I am the one who has the twenty kills, and my team feels like because I have 20 kills, they have equal stats and proceeds to fight 1 vs many infinite times...One person cannot outplay five people enough in this game, sad truth. This is why my real life sport is fencing--no way trash team can troll me in a solo sport lol

EndlessSorcererDec 18, 20141 votes

In that case, maybe team games aren't for you. You did well but your team misplayed, so you lost.

Epilogue of LifeDec 18, 20141 votes

Kinda unfair for me, right? I enjoy coordinating with people of the same skill, and why should I lose a game when I didn't make the misplays?

EndlessSorcererDec 18, 20141 votes

Because it is a team game. That's how team games work. What a member of the team does affects the other members of the team.

For the record, I agree with Hyrum Graff

Hyrum GraffDec 18, 20141 votes

{quoted}

Kinda unfair for me, right? I enjoy coordinating with people of the same skill, and why should I lose a game when I didn't make the misplays?

Sounds like ranked 5's might be the place for you.

Epilogue of LifeDec 18, 20141 votes

But ranked 5's doesn't even have the same rewards as yoloq...

Epilogue of LifeDec 18, 20141 votes

However, a bad member harms a team far more than a good player can contribute.

EndlessSorcererDec 18, 20141 votes

Because a member of your team did.

Hyrum GraffDec 18, 20141 votes

{quoted}

But more often, I am the one who has the twenty kills, and my team feels like because I have 20 kills, they have equal stats and proceeds to fight 1 vs many infinite times...One person cannot outplay five people enough in this game, sad truth. This is why my real life sport is fencing--no way trash team can troll me in a solo sport lol

I think we're moving on to a different discussion, of whether it's possible to solo carry / whether elo hell exists, etc. I'm happy to have that discussion, but I don't really want to derail this thread. If you care enough to make your own thread, "Can one player carry the team?" (or something like that) and link me, I'd be happy to continue this discussion over there.

Epilogue of LifeDec 18, 20141 votes

It's not about elo hell; I feel that this game should be even more snowbally, a LOT more snowbally, because the advantage of one player is way too insignificant once the enemy successfully stalls.

Laughing FishDec 17, 20142 votes

Hmm... Perhaps. I kind of like very late game when all 10 champs are fully built. It is where the skilled are separated from the lucky.

Hyrum GraffDec 17, 20141 votes

Yes and no, I'd say. You can still get a lucky, game-changing catch in late game (game-changing because death timers are so long). I think it just makes the stakes higher for everything that you do.

Laughing FishDec 17, 20142 votes

That's true. Luck still plays a role. But once everyone has full builds, farming stops playing as large a role, and allows more tactics to be used.

Toru ItaiDec 17, 20143 votes

[{quoted}](name=Laughing Fish,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=naZNiWvI,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2014-12-17T18:20:19.337+0000)

Hmm... Perhaps. I kind of like very late game when all 10 champs are fully built. It is where the skilled are separated from the lucky.

^ obviusly a nasus/veigar main (Jk)

Laughing FishDec 17, 20141 votes

Lol, while I do enjoy both of them, I rarely play them. I mostly use Garen , Velkoz , and Warwick .

Toru ItaiDec 17, 20141 votes

there used to be a heart shaped item that would disapear after (i think) 3 levels. if there was a simuler item that offered AD (instead of hp regen) i think that'd be better. that way there's some forthought.