So when can the community stop kidding itself and admit sona was way way overnerfed?

A Wild AP Sona·Mar 2, 2015·34 votes·12,732 views

A Wild AP Sona - stuck in d5 due to +9 - 31 gains and derp teammates + sona's missing 800 damage burst AP Sona - Stuck in D3 Dota 2 Sona - rage quit league due to sona being garbage after 30 nerf (also stuck in d5) Codesave - demoted from D2-D4

why is it that the 4 best sona players NA cant climb back to high elo if she is so OP? why is it that her win ratio in real elo has been stuck at 48-50% for months now?

community is now forced to admit winning is 50-60% luck based and elo hell is real or that sona was way overnerfed after 30 nerfs + 800 damage of burst lost and is unplayable vs people with a pulse that know how to right click on her and force her to use her 400 mana to heal for 150 hp at level 2

one of the 2 biggest LoL hoax will fall today your move community

173 Comments

Sailor MintMar 2, 201510 votes

Are you sure you're not failing to climb because they changed the way Diamond MMR works?

Sounds like you're just blaming Sona as a way to cope for your inability to hit the 2400+MMR requirement for Diamond I.

Back in S3/early S4, you could hit Diamond I with a 2100MMR, and then would get clamped on your way to Challenger. Those days are long gone, soft clamping now starts in Diamond V.

BisaknospMar 2, 20159 votes

her mana cost on w needs a decrease and a base heal buff.. plus the shield is garbage

Laughing FishMar 2, 20152 votes

The shield is still enough to activate item 3504

BisaknospMar 2, 20159 votes

who is dumb enough to buy this on her? what a waste

Laughing FishMar 2, 20154 votes

It has worked out pretty well for me. A nice passive, some mana regain, CD reduction, and AP. What's not to like?

It Is I EmotoMar 2, 20158 votes

still staying squishy as hell tbh

Laughing FishMar 2, 20152 votes

Honestly she is pretty squishy no matter what you do. CD reduction and MS make here much harder to kill imo (although I haven't done great with her my last few games, so take my advice with caution lol)

It Is I EmotoMar 2, 20156 votes

nope, but her previous auras helped her much better to sustain, her current auras don't do that very well.

Yandere CarryMar 2, 20152 votes

so are ap sona builds like OP uses.

It Is I EmotoMar 2, 20156 votes

I know, sadly the stats that ardent offers are pretty weak compared to other items

ForgiveColourMar 2, 20155 votes

lol just play lee sin and 1v5 get challejour, gg

GigahappytownSep 30, 20155 votes

i honestly dodge games when i get sona on my team because the enemys just going to pick blitz thresh or naut walk past the minions and zone or kill us because sona can't do anything about it.

Pika310Oct 1, 20153 votes

Ditto.

ADepressedLeonaOct 2, 20155 votes

I know discussions get heated, but can we refrain from attacking each other like savages? At the end of the day, this is just a game.

More to the point, I believe Sona is in a really bad spot (Understatement of the year). She has been nerfed several times over, even when she wasn't really that good. Personally, I feel she's been given the Evelynn treatment (Purposely nerfed into the abyss until Riot comes up with a rework that they like) because they have stated time and time again how they hate auras and how they hate her ultimate.

Off the top of my head, I cannot think of a match up where Sona has even a slight advantage in (I still do well with her in Gold, but Gold is much, much different than Diamond and above)

All in all, I feel like Sona is extremely underwhelming (Both playing as her and playing against her) and I just hope Riot doesn't take nearly two years to rework her like they did with Eve.

Pika310Oct 3, 20152 votes

I know discussions get heated, but can we refrain from attacking each other like savages? At the end of the day, this is just a game.

Yes, it's good to remember to keep these threads civil, but at the same time, many of these people have been at this for well over a year now. Silence and inaction from Riot in addition to the rare appearance which offers us nothing more than propaganda and lies has built up for a long time. I can understand and empathize with those people that are frustrated from dealing with this for so long.

What I can't understand are the people that have been verbally attacking posters since day 1, notice they're still here to this day:

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4887033&page=2

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4902912&page=2

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4909644&page=9

Poptart EvelynnMar 2, 20154 votes

Main is overpowered, obtains freelo, main is no longer overpowered, and drops due to lacking the required skill for their elo.

Interesting.

A Wild AP SonaMar 2, 20158 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kawaii Kha,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nVF6Es62,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-03-02T19:04:19.392+0000)

Main is overpowered, obtains freelo, main is no longer overpowered, and drops due to lacking the required skill for their elo.

Interesting.

calling a champion that gets countered by literally 90% of champions on league and only 4-5 people in all of NA play at a high level + has to get within 550 range which allows her to be 1-2 shotted "overpowered"

Picardfacepalm.jpg

skill isnt the problem kid which is obvious by my 2.0 support k/d which shits on the k/d of most peoples mid laners

the problem is that even if she is 10-0 fed she cant deal enough damage to 100-0 a squishy because she is basically a floating pinata with a childs toy keyboard

then you got mid laners running around and 100-0 people with a dorans ring

Pika310Mar 4, 20159 votes

the problem is that even if she is 10-0 fed she cant deal enough damage to 100-0 a squishy because she is basically a floating pinata with a childs toy keyboard

Couldn't have said it better myself.

insaiyanbaccaApr 29, 20153 votes

lol what mid laners are you seeing 100-0 people with a dorans ring? because i need to play those people :P

PryotraSep 30, 20154 votes

the problem is that even if she is 10-0 fed she cant deal enough damage to 100-0 a squishy because she is basically a floating pinata with a childs toy keyboard.

This sentence reminded me of Heimer before the most recent rework.

Difference is that Sona is a support champs, and they have admitted to being ok with shoehorning supports into that role. If you want buffs, compare her to a support champion.

BoulderoxSep 30, 20154 votes

Azir You want to talk nerfs.... Gang, we out https://33.media.tumblr.com/1e0a24f8e2165a1ee6ec06da97eba3ca/tumblr_nbtf8dLzG81rn3500o1_500.gif

Pika310Oct 1, 20154 votes

Not a single one of those champions has received 24 simultaneous nerfs in just a single patch. Sona has.

BoulderoxOct 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Not a single one of those champions has received 24 simultaneous nerfs in just a single patch. Sona has.

Nice over exaggerating there... Nowhere does she get nerfed more than a skill or two, and she got buffed in 5.1 for her ult to cost 100 flat. That is a buff. She was nerfed pretty bad, but she is an early to mid bully, after that she is only an ult heal and speed up sacrifice.

Sona shouldn't be able to carry

Emmy Cha0sOct 1, 20155 votes

This list of those 24 nerfs says differently.

[{quoted}](name=Miku Hime sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GEOsuPbl,comment-id=0025000000010000,timestamp=2015-09-25T13:25:17.501+0000)

Sure, here's the list of all 24 nerfs just in 4.13 alone:

Base AD

Base HP

Staccato dmg

Staccato CD

Diminuendo CD

Tempo CD

Hymn base dmg

Hymn CD

Hymn aura removed

Hymn active spell range

Hymn secondary active spell range

Hymn secondary active dmg

Aria base heal

Aria CD

Aria aura removed

Aria secondary active mitigation

Aria secondary active duration

Aria secondary active spell range

Aria mana cost

Celerity CD

Celerity aura removed

Celerity active spell range

Celerity active MS

Crescendo width

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/GEOsuPbl-list-the-3-most-balanced-champion-in-the-game?comment=0025000000010000

As for the reduction cost on Sona's R... Nice try, but that wasn't a buff to Sona. It was a change that was made to countless champions simultaneously, but blatantly and unjustifiably discluded Sona. It was just an equality change being made to her well over a year after it should have been. Details on that here:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/3dRQ6g4P-its-now-been-1-year-4-months-and-2-days

BoulderoxOct 1, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Emmy Cha0s,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nVF6Es62,comment-id=0012000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-01T08:40:45.129+0000)

This list of those 24 nerfs says differently.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/GEOsuPbl-list-the-3-most-balanced-champion-in-the-game?comment=0025000000010000

As for the reduction cost on Sona's R... Nice try, but that wasn't a buff to Sona. It was a change that was made to countless champions simultaneously, but blatantly and unjustifiably discluded Sona. It was just an equality change being made to her well over a year after it should have been. Details on that here:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/3dRQ6g4P-its-now-been-1-year-4-months-and-2-days

This was the patch she was mini reworked, call it a nerf but they had to to make the brief nerfs to have her q w and e so they weren't oppressive. They replaced her autas with stronger durations.

Sona still is an early to mid game threat. She still is a pain in bot lane with her 0 skill q aa proc to deal quite a bit of damage for free. That is her design, and she fulfils it with deaignated weaknesses.

Emmy Cha0sOct 1, 20155 votes

so they weren't oppressive.

Except there's a MAJOR flaw in your statement. Sona was NOT oppressive. She was a sub-par pick deemed to be a blatantly inferior cookie cutout of Nami.

You admit that patch 4.13 was an overall nerf, but nerfing a tier-2 champ is unjustified.

BoulderoxOct 1, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Emmy Cha0s,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nVF6Es62,comment-id=001200000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-01T14:10:12.555+0000)

Except there's a MAJOR flaw in your statement. Sona was NOT oppressive. She was a sub-par pick deemed to be a blatantly inferior cookie cutout of Nami.

You admit that patch 4.13 was an overall nerf, but nerfing a tier-2 champ is unjustified.

idk why you are complaining, according to http://www.nerfplz.com/2015/09/2015-champion-tier-list-solo-queue_20.html she is currently god tier status, and i believe that. She has so much early game harass and protection that it is hard not to see why she is there. Her ult is by far one of the best initiations on par with a flash Annie R when done correctly.

If she was so horribly gimped, why is she sitting at the 12th most popular champion on lolking charts, with a winrate above 50% consistently, and a ban/pick of ~10%.

She does not need buffs, she is fine how she is. She is A SUPPORT, she shouldn't be able to carry games, she has a role of buffs and brief auras, not to 100-0 people in an instant.

Pika310Oct 1, 20157 votes

she has a role of buffs and brief auras,

By definition, an aura is permanent. It cannot be "brief", thus Sona does not use auras anymore.

BoulderoxOct 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

By definition, an aura is permanent. It cannot be "brief", thus Sona does not use auras anymore.

PLEASE READ http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Sona

AURA: Sona and tagged allied champions receive a shield lasting up to 1.5 seconds. (W)

AURA: Sona and tagged allied champions deal bonus magic damage on their next basic attack within 3 seconds. (Q)

AURA: Tagged allied champions gain bonus movement speed for 1.5 seconds. (E)

Aura is not permanent, it is an aoe buff or debuff, no set time makes it an aura

Pika310Oct 2, 20155 votes

According to the video game definition of an aura, they are as a matter-of-fact permanent:

Auras have four basic characteristics:

They are AoE spells, based on the position of the caster, otherwise known as point blank area of effect (PBAoE) spells.

They are instant cast, and have no cooldown.

_**They have an infinite duration, as long as the affected target is within range of the caster, and the caster is alive.**_

```
They are not dispellable. 
```

It doesn't matter what Riot wants to call them, common sense and the English definition disagree.

Emmy Cha0sOct 1, 20156 votes

According to common sense and mathematics, she's shit tier status and I believe math. Math is the only absolute in the universe.

Her ult is one of the weakest in the game and can rarely tag more than 1 person even with a surprise Flash.

Winrates are one of the worst excuses you can make, if you need to fall back on something like this, everyone knows you've already lost the argument, especially yourself.

She's the weakest support and arguably the weakest champion in the game. Saying she's not designed to 100-0 someone does not excuse the fact that she has the lowest base damage amongst all supports as well as the 2nd-lowest damage potential of the whole class just after Braum. She needs a full revert AND buffs; or a re-rework.

BoulderoxOct 1, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Emmy Cha0s,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nVF6Es62,comment-id=00120000000000000000000000000002,timestamp=2015-10-01T15:39:39.132+0000)

According to common sense and mathematics, she's shit tier status and I believe math. Math is the only absolute in the universe.

Her ult is one of the weakest in the game and can rarely tag more than 1 person even with a surprise Flash.

Winrates are one of the worst excuses you can make, if you need to fall back on something like this, everyone knows you've already lost the argument, especially yourself.

She's the weakest support and arguably the weakest champion in the game. Saying she's not designed to 100-0 someone does not excuse the fact that she has the lowest base damage amongst all supports as well as the 2nd-lowest damage potential of the whole class just after Braum. She needs a full revert AND buffs; or a re-rework.

first off, i love how an assumed lvl 10 smurf is fighting your battles for you, you hit me right in the feelings >_> boo hoo. and how the hell can you claim mathematical support WHEN YOU GIVE ABSOLUTELY NONE WHILE I GIVE STATISTICAL INFO.

BUT OH WAIT that is the worst excuse you say. any data is useful data, now heres some facts for your butt hurt. http://loldb.gameguyz.com/champions/sona.html The win rate shows how she fluctuated per patches and as you know, she shuffled around since, but is BACK to average 50+ winrate. DOESN't matter what rank, what division, it is an average, that is higher that 90+ champions, it even states she is 24th in win-rates of the champions ON AN AVERAGE SCALE.

If you understood math classes, and realize that mean and average % are actually one of the best ways to weigh data, the more data, the closer they actually are in how they truly are in game. So all that bull about winrate not being useful is freaking hogwash, anything above 50 is amazing, anything below 43ish is lacking. She did hit one point on SEPT. 15, 2015, which was a few weeks ago, but LOOK, its right back up.

and if you would realize that lane sona was a thing, the reason her AA damage is shit is because of her q + item 3100 took way too much out of people for FREE. so don't go calling out low damages without ACTUALLY DISSECTING HOW SHE PLAYS

https://themidnightalliance.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/sit-in-the-corner.gif

CaythelesOct 1, 20151 votes

Sona seems pretty strong at the moment, one of the best pokers in lane. just dont get caught when doing so and its gg Ez give me that pizza pleasee

BooriinOct 1, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Sona seems pretty strong at the moment, one of the best pokers in lane. just dont get caught when doing so and its gg Ez give me that pizza pleasee

If you can keep poking while can't be get caught as a Sona, it's most likely your opponents are bad, don't appreciate yourself much if you can do that.

Good player know how to zone and poke Sona when she get close to use power chord. Good ADC poke Sona, good tank supports sometime dive minions wave, turret to caught Sona, good Jungler camp support Sona's lane.

Emmy Cha0sOct 1, 20157 votes

Good tank supports sometime dive minions wave, turret to caught Sona.

Funny you should mention that:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/OE5Ew9HQ-sonas-pattern-lacks-significant-counterplay

CaythelesOct 2, 20151 votes

That sona made Terrible decisions. Aswell as not saving her ability point for when she needed it. Good players would still have their Lvl up point until half the XP bar so they can decide weather the enemy is playing passive or Aggressive, By no means was that sona prepared as a Player, not a champion.

Emmy Cha0sOct 2, 20156 votes

That player is diamond and you call them bad. You're barely "gold," I don't think you're in any position to be judging them.

CaythelesOct 1, 20151 votes

You need to know sonas MAX range on Q. if you can do that then you can poke safely. MOST sonas will get abit closer than Max range and completely get caught.

Learn max Q range and you are set for the game. with good communication and or Synergy wth your adc you can make sona the most overpowered Support in the game. Her heals are abit too costy for what you get though.

Also i take Movement speed quints... it works

Pika310Oct 2, 20154 votes

First you say cast Q at max range for 40 damage(which is factually the lowest damage amongst the entire support class), then you say coordinate with your ADC to proc the secondary active, which requires moving into AA range. Your statement couldn't be any more self-contradictory if you were actually trying.

I can only assume based on your unfamiliarity of how Sona works, that you've never actually played her.

CaythelesOct 2, 20151 votes

Just because you are bad at sona, doesnt mean you need to compare me to you. You didnt even ask if i was in a Chat with a duo (wich i usually am), and i take advantage of my Movement speed Quints, Dont blame a champion because you dont want to try new things.

I can only assume based on your Unfamiliarity of how sona works, That you've never actually Tried to make her better and work with your Runes and Masteries to make her work. Think outside the box. I would know more about my Supports being a Support main and getting to Gold with only Supports. (and some Situational Mordekaiser picks XD)

Pika310Oct 2, 20154 votes

Judging from your defensive reaction, seems I've hit the nail on the head.

CaythelesOct 2, 20151 votes

Not really, think of it like this.

You have only seen or tried the ways that Dont work on sona. you stand by that viewpoint and call her weak.

I have tried the ways that Do not work aswell, However i played around and i experimented with Sona, leading to me Finding her True place in todays Meta, This means You have tried one edge on your sword (Rusty). and i have used both (Rusty and Sharp) i prefer to use the Sharp one.

I said she was in a good spot, wich she is, but you say she is unusable because you refuse to Work with her as a Champion?

That is why i reacted Defensively, i will not stand someone who has not Tried to make sona Viable in Every way. Try to correct me "Someone who has found the cure to the madness". By no means am i an amazing sona, But i make her work when i want to Step it up with a Sick beat and a tight Booty (DJ Sona)

Pika310Oct 2, 20154 votes

You have only seen or tried the ways that Dont work on sona. you stand by that viewpoint and call her weak.

Actually, that's incorrect. I came to my conclusion by looking at her numbers before and after, running countless mathematical calculations and doing side-by-side comparisons with every other support champion in the game. In addition to gathering countless explanations from the very best Sona players both NA and worldwise, the top player himself being the very creator of this thread itself.

The conclusion I came to is based on fact, figures, analytical reasoning and expert witness testimony. Whereas you are spouting a biased opinion that is intentionally ignoring common sense.

CaythelesOct 2, 20151 votes

Maybe that is your problem with Sona, you rely on her numbers too much based on other champions, But her abilities are not anything like Other champions is it? React differently, Move differently, they are slower in Projectile. Sit on that.

In the end, i will be playing games as Sona and Winning because i took time to Ecperiment, and you will be defending that she is weak. Either way i still win. They buff sona? GOOD. now my strat will be even more Torture to an enemy. All because you decided not to work with the champion instead of QQ on threads.

Once again, say all you want. What ever happens (Aslong as it isnt another nerf) I will still be winning in game. Good day.

Emmy Cha0sOct 2, 20154 votes

In the end, i will be playing games as Sona and Winning

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1944379240/201380536?tab=overview

Pika310Oct 2, 20154 votes

You're saying my problem is that I put too much stock into what the #1 Sona player in the world for three seasons in a row is directly telling me? Did I read that right?

Do you even read what you're about to say before saying it?

CaythelesOct 2, 20151 votes

Shh its alright, i am gonna go to sleep k? And tomorrow i am most likely going to play Sona and use my strat to win. you can argue all you want but in the end, i win. Buff her, i win, keep her the same, i win.

Also check the stats for that MH you linked. i decided to actually look at which match and it made me laugh even more. #3Acc

Night sleep tight don't let the Salt bugs bite.

Emmy Cha0sOct 2, 20151 votes

Lol, no. I'm the one that posted that match and I'm here because you responded to MY post. I saw the notification, saw there were unread posts and decided to step in on you harassing him. Sorry if my quick post made you paranoid enough to make up some sort of major conspiracy in your head, I understand being proven intellectually inferior can cause that to happen.

Whatever, you'll keep believing whatever you need to protect your narcissism and inferiority complex. That's not my problem.

CaythelesOct 2, 20151 votes

in the end, i win

WldSonaIsNo1SonaOct 2, 20156 votes

{quoted}

in the end, i win

The only thing you win is the award for being the player with their head the greatest distance up their ass You are gold and your trying to shit talk me? SMH to begin with the video he linked you to has this as the description (and I quote)

"I decided it may be interesting for people to see what the average difficult game looks like for an AP sona its pretty much impossible to finish a game vs good people with better than a 2.0 k/d

Recordings are intended for viewing with 720/1080P."

I actually uploaded that video to show an intentionally difficult close game NOT to show me carrying the living shit out of it

so yeah 9-6-20 was considered a bad game for me but of course you would know all about bad games wouldn't you? like with that 0-8 galio and 1-6 braum game? at least I went 9-6-20 in my bad game

that video was actually gameplay of me playing league of legends with only about 5-6 months of experience so I would have only been about d5 at the time (although I still had the best sona stats) my gameplay has obviously been refined slightly since then

by the time I had played league for 11 months I had gone from level 1 beginner - diamond 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF4HZ0uE-1g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VwI_ZW0rHU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DnLBcoRwac

if you want to see me make LC$ big plays your looking at the wrong videos I suggest you try my 3 more recent uploads though

Gold is nothing but sand box elo and if you play sona as good as me you should have a 70% win ratio and average the most kills on the team with only 0-1 deaths http://www.lolskill.net/summoner/NA/WldSonaIsNo1Sona/champions

[{quoted}](name=Emmy Cha0s,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nVF6Es62,comment-id=0013000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-02T11:10:08.817+0000)

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1944379240/201380536?tab=overview

{quoted}

Well, he was the uncontested best Sona player worldwide for 3 seasons in a row. That inherently makes him the lead expert on her as far as everything gameplay wise.

Would you argue with SKT about teamplay? Argue with Insec about Rengar? How about argue with an astrophysicist about astrophysics? Personally, I wouldn't.

You can take everything with a grain of salt and ask questions, but at the end of the day, it's a student-teacher relationship.

don't worry I got him for you thanks though