Either nerf LeBlanc or revert the rework.

dakota saturn·Nov 30, 2016·2 votes·1,403 views

Pick one.

She is sitting at a 52+% winrate on a high skillfloor champion, with a near 50% ban rate in diamond+.

She is oppressive and disgusting early game and snowballs out of control. You can argue her 1.5s lockout give her counterplay, but in laning, it doesn't when she can just sit back and push better than most mages, and roam bot and get doubles. Or she has multiple options to pop sigil. She's not even difficult to play anymore.

I want my champion back. I don't care if you break her knees with nerfs, I want to be able to play my champion again.

Ty.

35 Comments

AttackOnTeemosNov 30, 20163 votes

Or Build MR

dakota saturnNov 30, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Or Build MR

Sure, I'm guessing all the people in diamond elo have NEVER thought that they just can build MR. I guess they don't know how to use the shop.

AttackOnTeemosNov 30, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=dakota saturn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nPZOR1pG,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-11-30T22:02:37.373+0000)

Sure, I'm guessing all the people in diamond elo have NEVER thought that they just can build MR. I guess they don't know how to use the shop.

It wouldn't surprise me some all most of them can do now is smurf. -drops the mic-

dakota saturnNov 30, 20163 votes

{quoted}

It wouldn't surprise me some all most of them can do now is smurf. -drops the mic-

Got it, so everyone on the boards is literally better than diamond and challenger, and they just don't rank up because they don't feel like it, k.

People in Diamond+ have such a problem with her they ban her more than 120+ other champions. Because they're all smurfs and all are retarded and bad at the game. They also forget that magic resist exists and stack zeals when seeing LB in champ picks. k.

AttackOnTeemosNov 30, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=dakota saturn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nPZOR1pG,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-30T22:18:52.431+0000)

Got it, so everyone on the boards is literally better than diamond and challenger, and they just don't rank up because they don't feel like it, k.

People in Diamond+ have such a problem with her they ban her more than 120+ other champions. Because they're all smurfs and all are retarded and bad at the game. They also forget that magic resist exists and stack zeals when seeing LB in champ picks. k.

Well I mean you answered your issue here. "People in Diamond+" If you actually check right now . (since I last checked a month ago.) Less than 8 percent of NA are even in that elo. Just because she's that powerful in that elo doesn't mean she is in lower elo. Riot isn't going to make changes simply because people who have a higher play skill are good at her.

I mean I USE to support main her in the start of the season but I had to switch off because it harmed my own Adc in the long run.

dakota saturnNov 30, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Well I mean you answered your issue here. "People in Diamond+" If you actually check right now . (since I last checked a month ago.) Less than 8 percent of NA are even in that elo. Just because she's that powerful in that elo doesn't mean she is in lower elo. Riot isn't going to make changes simply because people who have a higher play skill are good at her.

I mean I USE to support main her in the start of the season but I had to switch off because it harmed my own Adc in the long run.

Whether she's legitimately good or not is irrelevant. People seem to perceive that she is though, hence why she has a 40-50% ban rate.

If she isn't that good in lower elos, why the fk is she banned almost every single game? She is banned in all elos more than 125+ champions, whether you want to admit that makes her good or bad doesn't matter.

Give her a nerf, let people kneejerk react and stop playing her, then let us all go on with our day.

Why downvote? How is anything I'm saying wrong?

AttackOnTeemosNov 30, 20161 votes

[deleted]

dakota saturnNov 30, 20162 votes

{quoted}

50% ban rate? Bro I haven't seen a Zyra ban maybe twice out of a 500 something games I've played this season.

People asking nerf...What you want changed her damage? You reduce her damage then what? She still snares you because you stand still. You can literally step on her plants before they do anything they die instantly to tower and aoe melts them.

She's that damn strong but I bet if you played her now you wouldn't know what to do lol...

Why the fk are you talking about Zyra? lol

Read the topic lmao.

AttackOnTeemosNov 30, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=dakota saturn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nPZOR1pG,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-30T22:34:20.891+0000)

Why the fk are you talking about Zyra? lol

Read the topic lmao.

Gawd damn it! :C Went to wrong post! <3....My bad.

dakota saturnNov 30, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Gawd damn it! :C Went to wrong post! <3....My bad.

I think you should reverse all your downvotes and make an apology topic now :3

AttackOnTeemosNov 30, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=dakota saturn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nPZOR1pG,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-30T22:41:49.745+0000)

I think you should reverse all your downvotes and make an apology topic now :3

o.o Boss do the math, I can't downvote a topic more then once. If it was me the topic would be at 0 n.n Not -3

BorblandNov 30, 20163 votes

The issue is, they added pseudo-counterplay, but increased her damage output overall, making her way stronger then before. Getting a an E is abolustly deadly now without chance of redemption due to the insane leash range.

One can argue you can dodge the E, but she just jumps on you, leashes you and kills you 1,5 sec later. If that wasnt enough, she has the snare duration to inflict further pain upon you, in the form of a Q or Ignite.

dakota saturnNov 30, 20162 votes

{quoted}

The issue is, they added pseudo-counterplay, but increased her damage output overall, making her way stronger then before. Getting a an E is abolustly deadly now without chance of redemption due to the insane leash range.

One can argue you can dodge the E, but she just jumps on you, leashes you and kills you 1,5 sec later. If that wasnt enough, she has the snare duration to inflict further pain upon you, in the form of a Q or Ignite.

If you agree, why downvote?

BorblandDec 1, 20161 votes

I didnt downvote your post, it seems other people have.

NiyumiNov 30, 20163 votes

You know, I don't see it.

Sure if she's fed she's cancerous, but that's true of just about any champ. She has real counterplay now, instead of just instagibbing you with a Q>R>W like old LeBlanc. If she pushes the wave, she's goinna get ganked and run out of mana at the same time. If she tries to use her W and snag you with the splash on her Q, just stand away from minions until your mark wears off (kind of like Ryze).

Maybe, instead of complaining, you could learn how to play against her? Old LeBlanc was MUCH easier to play, and far more broken.

Edit: After looking through the comments... just because you're diamond doesn't mean you're good. In fact, most upper ELO people have terrible microplay and mechanics, and are just good at macroplay and team coordination -- the LC$ is a great example of that. If I can easily deal with LB as a gold 4, then why can't a diamond? The champion doesn't change between ELOs.

dakota saturnNov 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You know, I don't see it.

Sure if she's fed she's cancerous, but that's true of just about any champ. She has real counterplay now, instead of just instagibbing you with a Q>R>W like old LeBlanc. If she pushes the wave, she's goinna get ganked and run out of mana at the same time. If she tries to use her W and snag you with the splash on her Q, just stand away from minions until your mark wears off (kind of like Ryze).

Maybe, instead of complaining, you could learn how to play against her? Old LeBlanc was MUCH easier to play, and far more broken.

Edit: After looking through the comments... just because you're diamond doesn't mean you're good. In fact, most upper ELO people have terrible microplay and mechanics, and are just good at macroplay and team coordination -- the LC$ is a great example of that. If I can easily deal with LB as a gold 4, then why can't a diamond? The champion doesn't change between ELOs.

I don't want her nerfed becuase I can't deal with her, I'm a LeBlanc player myself.

I want her nerfed so I can play her again.

I don't care about her kit, or whether she's actually too strong or not - the consensus among the highest ranked players is that they don't want to deal with her, so she's a perm ban in ranked.

I want to play my champion again - I will deal with nerfs and making her a lot weaker if it means I can play her again.

Again, I have absolutely no issues playing against her myself. I just want my champion back.

Thanks.

AHeroNamedHawkeNov 30, 20162 votes

Her passive is the biggest issue, simply because she can proc it with E alone

Making her E only able to either apply or proc the mark, rather than both, would probably be enough

1.8 AP scaling on one 1000 range spell is kind of retarded it turns out

dakota saturnNov 30, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nPZOR1pG,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-11-30T23:02:46.933+0000)

Her passive is the biggest issue, simply because she can proc it with E alone

Making her E only able to either apply or proc the mark, rather than both, would probably be enough

1.8 AP scaling on one 1000 range spell is kind of retarded it turns out

Would -you- still ban her if she couldn't E and chunk people anymore?

What if she just chooses to Q after the snare and do the same damage anyway?

I don't see this being enough.

AstôlfoDec 1, 20161 votes

Or you could just dodge the snare chain.

A Dizzy LuluNov 30, 20162 votes

She's still garbage late game. Just try not to die and she'll be useless af post 25 minutes

dakota saturnDec 1, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Dizzy Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nPZOR1pG,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-11-30T23:55:13.110+0000)

She's still garbage late game. Just try not to die and she'll be useless af post 25 minutes

Then, WHY IS SHE BANNED 24/7 IF SHE IS GARBAGE?

If people on this board are so convinced that she is awful and not good - PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHY SHE IS FKING BANNED EVERY SINGLE GAME?

Pretend I'm a five year old. Explain. Why do you all think it is so easy to counter her, but in almost HALF OF EVERY SINGLE GAME IN DIAMOND, people decide to ban her over ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY FKING CHAMPIONS.

Sorry for the rage. People keep saying she's garbage in the thread, then continue to ban LB every single game. WHY?

A Dizzy LuluDec 1, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=dakota saturn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nPZOR1pG,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-12-01T00:04:01.613+0000)

Then, WHY IS SHE BANNED 24/7 IF SHE IS GARBAGE?

If people on this board are so convinced that she is awful and not good - PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHY SHE IS FKING BANNED EVERY SINGLE GAME?

Pretend I'm a five year old. Explain. Why do you all think it is so easy to counter her, but in almost HALF OF EVERY SINGLE GAME IN DIAMOND, people decide to ban her over ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY FKING CHAMPIONS.

Sorry for the rage. People keep saying she's garbage in the thread, then continue to ban LB every single game. WHY?

Any champ that was recently reworked/released is always going to have a high banrate

"People on this board" what's that suppose to mean? I'm not saying she's awful, her early game is more potent than ever - just play safe and you'll be fine. You sacrificing some CS just so she doesn't get a kill on you is worth it.

Michael SykesNov 30, 20161 votes

let's see what the waveclear nerf does. You are not patient enough Bro

dakota saturnNov 30, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Michael Sykes,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nPZOR1pG,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-11-30T22:53:28.299+0000)

let's see what the waveclear nerf does. You are not patient enough Bro

A change that small won't bring a 40-50% ban rate down to 10%.

She didn't lose any damage on champions (in fact she GAINED it because 40 dmg was shifted from E to Q. Most LB's max Q first anyway, so this was actually a BUFF.

She needs REAL nerfs pls.

Michael SykesNov 30, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=dakota saturn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nPZOR1pG,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-11-30T22:58:35.734+0000)

A change that small won't bring a 40-50% ban rate down to 10%.

She didn't lose any damage on champions (in fact she GAINED it because 40 dmg was shifted from E to Q. Most LB's max Q first anyway, so this was actually a BUFF.

She needs REAL nerfs pls.

well, it fixes her early early game since she maxes w first. And that's actually the biggest issue - what she can do pre 6. Maybe she gets further nerfs, maybe she doesn't, but in my opinion she is way healtier now. And her winrate will drop after a few patches

dakota saturnNov 30, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Michael Sykes,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nPZOR1pG,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-11-30T23:43:07.049+0000)

well, it fixes her early early game since she maxes w first. And that's actually the biggest issue - what she can do pre 6. Maybe she gets further nerfs, maybe she doesn't, but in my opinion she is way healtier now. And her winrate will drop after a few patches

How do you see her winrate dropping?

I can only see it increasing - she is a high skillcap champion, and as people get better with her mechanics and playstyle, that's only going to make her better over time. If you look at any winrate % graph, it's shown a steady and sharp increase since the rework.

Her winrate has substantially increased in only two weeks.

How on earth do you imagine that her winrate will decrease? This makes absolutely zero sense.

Michael SykesDec 1, 20161 votes

wait sh** I was so tired that I accidentally wrote "winrate" instead of "banrate" xD Yeah, totally agree with that, the people get better - but also the people that play against her will become better and learn how to play against her kit

Feel your Dafuq-moment Bro feelsbadman

nm1010Dec 1, 20161 votes

If you are going to complain about a champion at least know their max order, new leblanc is r>w>e>q

CatastropDec 1, 20161 votes

That's only for people who are good at the game/main the champion as they can reliably land E. Otherwise, Q max second gets you more consistent damage.

nm1010Dec 1, 20161 votes

I've already shown why this is wrong like 3 times, if you want the math go look at my posting history from a week ago. Q max right now gets you 25 damage per point with increased mana cost and no decreased cd. You already clear minion waves with 1 point in it (current patch) so you literally get next to nothing and a higher mana cost.

E max keeps the same mana cost, lowers cd, and increases the damage by twice the amount of q. For kill pressure you almost always need e so you want all of those things.

https://i.gyazo.com/0a6cca1390b36cc114f4d4395de0834a.png

CatastropDec 1, 20161 votes

Except you haven't, you pretty much proved my point. 521 games, where it's basically mostly mains and OTPs playing her. Whereas literally just above this, you can clearly see that newer LB players go Q max second.

I'm not saying E max second isn't the better than Q, but it's also not the "right" skill order as you implied in your first comment.

nm1010Dec 1, 20161 votes

Damage is worse with q, mana cost is worse, cd doesn't improve with level, wave clear doesn't improve, the 25 extra damage isn't going to prep or secure kills better. New lb is all about the passive and against anyone with a brain you have to hit e to reliably proc it.

I'll give that the "right" skill order is up for debate still, but e gives you a hell of a lot more potential power than q does. Even if you aren't landing it, the pressure of having it up more often and the higher damage is really strong.

CatastropDec 1, 20161 votes

I'm not saying Q is better outright than E, but it isn't always the ideal skill max. Yeah having pressure is nice, but it's wasted if you can never land it because at that point, you'd have been better off with maxing Q and having the reliable damage.

nm1010Dec 1, 20161 votes

High elo players are good at high skill cap champions, who wudda thunk it? She is good right now, but I think the changes next patch will help people deal with her.

Personally I've only gone against LB twice in diamond and destroyed her both times so she clearly isn't unbearably broken.

PentaJukeDec 1, 20161 votes

I honestly dont see anyone using LeBlanc in my Elo or even banning her. So its different for me, I dont want her to get nerfs or buffs actually. They should release a new Champion called Evaine and she uses LeBlanc's old kit lol (I would love that, wishful thinking)