Honestly, every freaking full tank champions deals more damage than you in this game.
Tried Kayn out, loved him. Choose red form, loved it.
Then next game, i tried the Assassin form... WTF?
I actually felt like I was doing LESS dmg than when I went Red form... isnt the whole deal of an Assassin that hes able to ASSASSINATE people?
Give me ONE GOOD REASON to pick an Assassin when bruisers do the same damage, but are tanky AF...
Leblancs Boob33 votesMy favorite is the second you lock in an assassin you know the game is on a time limit. If you don't snowball and end the game before 25-30 minutes you lose by default. By lategame an assassin's entire burst will just barely cut through the enormous amounts of supports shields/heals/exhaust and then the adc will shred you in half a second.
DeusVult4 votesThe worst is that most assassins burst is attached to their CDs, and is on a small delay. Late game, when they try to all in the enemy ADC, they get outbursted by the ADCs 800-1000 damage crits every 0.5 seconds
japhib2 votesIsn't that how it's always been? If you're trying to carry as an assassin by killing the adc when her whole team is near, you're doing something wrong ... so if the game gets to late game when teams are grouping 5v5, you need to get a pick when they're not grouped as 5
Penns22 votesTbh assassin form Kayn is pretty broken actually if you play it well after the buffs and bugfixes but overall.. yeah assassins arent the best atm xd
Raoul3 votesCould you give me a few tips?
IPERFECTO13 votesCould you give me a few tips? I don't have that much points on kayn, and wouldn't call him my main(since i do want to have at least 100k points to call him my main),but still have at least 45k and mastery 7 so might help you with something.
Tip#1 - try him in midlane.He's actually feels pretty comfortable staying mid, as long as you know matchups(and permaban ori, really, it's hell) and you can simply stack your SA form straight from your laner and snowball, even if your enemy is meele, just go bot and take your form(or take rhaast and wait 4 mins)
Tip#2 - max W. W deals crapload of damage when is maxed,especially when you're in the midlane you can waveclear pretty well and poke your oponnent ,and take your opportunity to kill him(but requires more skill as it's harder to land than Q)
Tip#3 - rush 
.If you're not rushing this item on SA,well then, it makes a lot of sence that you did less dmg than rhaast.It's literally one of the best item for SA(2nd is Ghostblade),since he synergises with your passive and ult sooo well.You guess it right, dmg also DEALS ADDITIONAL MAGIC DMG FROM PASSIVE,AND REFRESHES AFTER YOU USING ULT,SO YOU CAN HIT EMPOWERED TWICE.I would suggest you to build it even on rhaast, but didn't played him much so i won't.
Tip#4 - don't be cocky,start 
. Your pre-6 is a bit tough,to survive you'd better start doran so you can sustain poke, stay passive, get at least 
and then try to be a little bit more aggresive.
Tip#5 - ALWAYS pick 
. Why? The reason is simple.It can save you much better than any other summoner.How?You can ult on ignited targets,so if you aren't have any possibility to reach your target and do some dmg, you can ignite+ult her and then demolish your victim\wait your cd to run.I can't count how much kills i got because of it and how much times i managed to survive thanks to this combo
Tip#6, Pick up Lethality red,Ad quints, and yellow&blue runes for your taste, it does increase your dmg a lot, and it's actually usefull in late game aswell,much more benefitial than straight ad.
Tip#7 - I can see a lot of SA took fervor, don't do that, pick thunderlords,since thunderlords gets powerboost from your passive aswell
Tip#8 - Try to kill your victim in 3 seconds,because your passive actually does a lot of additional dmg, so use everything you can in that window
Tip#9 - Use your W ,Then your Q.This combo is a lot more smooth(on SA) and faster, so you can burst better in 3 sec window,or you can come to meele, hit Duskblade aa, W+Q, usually adc won't survive that even under support, peel(if you're not behind ofc)
TIp#10 - use your E for sustain in your lane.
My usual build is >>>
(or 
)>>>
>>>(to take extra dmg to squishes 
>>>
(please don't skip this item, this fits soo good to kayn, and 20% cdr feels very good aswell) >>> 
(E+ + = Hussain Bolt) >>> SItuational AD item (aka 
,etc)
Hope this will help, you can check my op.gg if you want to see results of my SA games(sadly i can't play ranked with such unstable connection, but oh well) And good luck with reaping squishy's guts [slayer-jinx-catface]
SUPERX4PANDA2 votesI've wanted to get into playing Kayn since his release, and while I don't hate Rhaast I've always thought SA was much cooler, so thanks for some useful tips. I'll give them a try.
ImTheSideKick1 votesif you get far ahead 
works as well as your passive does magic damage
gunblade should also be a sometimes item. its 300 plus damage (active plus passive) is nice plus heals on every thing, magic damage, true damage every thing
IPERFECTO1 votesI thought about bying it, but... Buying 80 literally Useless ap instead of something more viable? I don't think it's worth it, and buying sorc shoes leaves you completely defenceless glass cannon, which i don't like.I never had suffer from have not enough dmg, so defencive boots is good to go
ImTheSideKick1 votesshadow assassin is just that a assassin. sure glass if you build glass, the damage boost is nuts tho
as for gunblade the sustain is crazy as you are healing off every thing. even your passive on top of that extra big burst, slow. and not to mention just drive by shooting people is fun
OyddAWqJ5r3 votesNever go Assassin if you can't win the game in 25 minutes or less. After that sadly, SA is worthless.
Rhaast is always good. However, SA is even better early game.
Nut on my Butt4 votesTbh assassin form Kayn is pretty broken actually if you play it well after the buffs and bugfixes but overall.. yeah assassins arent the best atm xd
That's because SA Kayn breaks all of the assassin rules that were set in the update a year ago.
2Charmnot2Charm17 votesI miss when assassins were relevant [zombie-nunu-bummed]
An Enemy Sutando6 votesWhen these boards were filled with "LETHALITY OP NERF PLS Q_Q" threads?
Wimbledofy14 votesnah before lethality even existed like season 4. That was the best
Pierce The Veal2 votesnah before lethality even existed like season 4. That was the best
This.
KuroCaliber7 votes*season 5, pre Juggernaut rework.
TequilaZombie1 votesSeason 3 did it for me. I miss Team Builder
Melledoneus14 votesHonestly, every freaking full tank champions deals more damage than you in this game.
Admittedly, what you say has a shred of truth to it. But let me first start out by saying it is NOT because tanks deal all that much damage (Cho'gath is not a tank, f*ck Cho'gath).
It's because tanks can survive long enough to even throw out a spell rotation on normal occasions. Assassins get blown up before they can. It's just how the game favors ranged burst DPS these days that makes assassins difficult to play. As a Talon, Leblanc, and former Rengar player, I am sad to see how rampant ADCs are because nobody can really keep them in check.
Pierce The Veal1 votesAdmittedly, what you say has a shred of truth to it. But let me first start out by saying it is NOT because tanks deal all that much damage (Cho'gath is not a tank, f*ck Cho'gath).
It's because tanks can survive long enough to even throw out a spell rotation on normal occasions. Assassins get blown up before they can. It's just how the game favors ranged burst DPS these days that makes assassins difficult to play. As a Talon, Leblanc, and former Rengar player, I am sad to see how rampant ADCs are because nobody can really keep them in check.
As someone who has played several juggernauts, they ALL deal more damage than assassins without even building damage. Tanks themselves can outdamage assassins if they go for stuff like titanic hydra.
Melledoneus2 votesJuggernauts are part of the bruiser category, not the tank one. So it woulfn't be fair to lop them in the same basket as tanks.
Furthermore, I agree Titanic Hydra does provide some decent damage for tanks. However, the only tank that builds it is Shen, who strays from the idea of what a tank is. Tanks in general can't invest much into offensive power because ADCs require 4-5 tank items to not get blown up. Tanks really don't have that freedom to itemize offensively these days.
AninLegions7771 votesMate. I'll keep repeating this. ADCs are not the problem. Supports are. Thanks to the passive of Forbidden idol items and the Windspeaker mastery and Nerf to grevious wounds, it's almost impossible to kill an ADC. I play Zed a lot. Hard champ. I catch Lucian out, and ult. Immediately, a redemption from Soraka comes in. I deal half his HP with Ult>E>Auto but redemption almost completely heals him up. I hit him with 3 Qs, that almost always guarantees death. Next thing you know, Soraka Rs and he's full hp now. Plus he gets AS buff from ardent censer and kills me. Mark pops and he has about 500 HP left. Don't get me started with Janna and Nami. You won't even get close. Supports were already frustrating with peels, the healing/shielding buffs made them unbearable.
Melledoneus4 votesADCs were too influential far before support itemization was broken. But nowadays their usual power in games has multiplied by a factor of 10.
AninLegions7772 votesThey were too influential but at least I could have a chance at killing them with an assassin. Can't even dream of that now.
nm10109 votesKayn is a diver, not an assassin as he has no escape after e'ing into a fight. What Riot failed to realize is that a diver with %hp damage, hard cc, and vamp is much greater than a diver with more damage and little tank killing ability.
DragonShea4 votesKayn is a diver, not an assassin as he has no escape after e'ing into a fight. What Riot failed to realize is that a diver with %hp damage, hard cc, and vamp is much greater than a diver with more damage and little tank killing ability.
even in SA form 
is still technically a diver because he doesn't have the means to get disengage well.
have means to quickly get out of a fight. like 
have a harder time getting out and need terrain to disengage.
BoilTheOil9 votesRhaast does more damage than shadow kayn but, shadow kayn can do his damage much faster than rhaast. Rhaast is still 100% better than shadow kayn it needs some tweaking.
XPtoken9 votesAssassins are shit now due to the endless bitching of ranged carries.
They moaned and complained how it was unfair that there was a class in the game that existed to counter them til Riot decided to gut assassins while leaving adc the way they are.
Now an assassin will be blown up before he deals half an adc's health even when stupidly fed. thanks to all the "delayed damage" mechanics added to assassins, fuckload of nerfs to them, endless buffs to adc, indirect buffs to supports, and the 7 shields an adc gets from being near their team it is now impossible for an assassin to do what he is intended to do, assassinate.
So why pick kha'zix, kayn, rengar, shaco, evelynn, or any other assassin champ when you can take VI, Wukong, Xin, or Lee sin who all deal more damage than you while being tanky.
Rexxiee7 votesBest assassin in the game is : 
Build 6 defensive items and 1 shot squishies with 1 targeted spell true damge while having 10k+ health, ayy lmao, zed wish he could do that.
Cosnirak5 votesWhy even play Assassin in this game?
Don't. Assassins getting to do things that feel very assassiny is typically bad for game health in pvp games, so games try to find ways around this and generally fail because it's basically an impossible problem. No one is ok with suddenly dying with no counterplay to the fight itself, it makes people feel helpless. All the counterplay of not being somewhere your team can't save you and vision on the surrounding area doesn't really fix that feeling of helplessness enough.
JusticePauldrons4 votesI think the issue here is that SOME assassins can be relevant while others fall off so hard they might as well not exist. 
is an example of one that can stay relevant throughout the game simply because he has the potential to stay alive in extended fights. 
can simply because he is so safe while executing his enemies. But Anyone else? Good luck once the game gets to 40 minutes
AninLegions7773 votesZed isn't safe. He's easily peeled off and lost instant oneshot potential the moment forbidden idol got that damned passive. Also, someone can just wait at his R shadow and destroy him after.
Sire Hippington4 votesWas inclined to upvote after reading the title, but then i read the rest... Seriously, complaining that Assasins are in a bad spot overall is totally legit, BUT claiming full tank champs deal more damage and saying 'Give me ONE GOOD REASON to pick an Assassin when bruisers do the same damage, but are tanky AF' is just...nope. Bruisers are hands down in the worst spot atm, with very few exeptions, and no full tank(exept maybe cho'gath) comes even close to the damage off assasins(over the same duration)
IAIIAIAIIAIAIIAI4 votesPeople got butthurt when assassin's offered low counterplay, so Riot's solution was to gut assassin's actual damage output by increasing tankiness on everything but ad carries, adding lethality, sustain items in lane etc.
The assassin changes as well really hurt some champions, rengar for example.
Envonyx2 votesYou need to get a lead, and snowball. I have no problem with assassin kayn but my rule of thumb is to go tank or assassin depending if they have more squishy or tanky units on the enemy team. If there are 3 squishies then go assassin. 3 tanks/fighters? go Rhaast (M7 Kayn)
AFK Push2 votesTanks counter burst damage, they don't like sustained damage. Meaning the Assassins shouldn't be fighting tanks in most scenarios, if you are playing Kayn and there are a lot of tanks/bruisers then Red Kayn will do better against them. Your early game isn't that great against a lot of top laners, so you're better off playing safe and farming up. Your late game on red kayn is pretty good, and can deal with the squishies and tankier targets a like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igiInXk4W6w This video could help, but only with top lane.
Jayce Top2 votesThats why I quit maining Nocturne. I could be fed as hell but lose 1v1 to a Naut that 1/0/3 with meh farm because he takes no damage yet dealt so much to me. Even when I had black cleaver and Lord Dominiks.
4th3t0s2 votesIn the future, get or 
, tanks hate sustained damage.
Asayake 5150glow1 votes[{quoted}](name=J a y c e T o p,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nMpi2TAq,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2017-08-27T01:08:03.152+0000)
Thats why I quit maining Nocturne. I could be fed as hell but lose 1v1 to a Naut that 1/0/3 with meh farm because he takes no damage yet dealt so much to me. Even when I had black cleaver and Lord Dominiks.
To be fair if that Naut had decent farm, he would also be considered fairly fed.
Also that's why you build Triforce on Noc.
Screw everyone else, Triforce is perfect for Noc.
Because. Uh. The. Stats are good. And uh. The Triforce proc. And. Uh. It looks cool on his build.
Squidward Dab2 votesKat just doesn't feel the same lately, that or it's cuz I recently started playing again after a few weeks hiatus
Papa Rinky1 votesName a single full tank that has a consistent higher burst rotation than assassins. This post is BS
AninLegions7771 votesNo one is talking about burst. Jeez, read the bloody post.
Papa Rinky1 votes"Honestly, every freaking full tank champions deals more damage than you in this game."
I love it
AninLegions7771 votesMore dmg =/= burst. Learn league terminology.
Papa Rinky1 votesHoly fucking shit you must be trolling
Based on the CONTEXT of post, that being ASSASSINS VS TANKS, we can infer that unless FULL TANKS CAN OUTBURST ASSASSINS is true, the claim that ""Honestly, every freaking full tank champions deals more damage than you in this game."" is fucking stupid. Guess what? Its fucking stupid, because full tank champions DO NOT BURST harder than dedicated burst champions whom build damage.
I assumed you were capable of using basic common sense, MY MISTAKE
AninLegions7771 votesCan't continue to kill my brain cells. Adios!
Papa Rinky1 votesLOL you didnt refute a single point I made.
Why do people who have zero idea what they are talking about think they have the right to discuss these things? Dunning Kruger effect at its finest.
RavenMagus1 votesShadow Assassin Kayn is really awesome. He can kill people super fast.
Of course, if the opposing team has Janna or Lulu or Karma or some other shielding support, or the ADC buys a GA, you're completely screwed and can no longer do anything. But that's every assassin for you.
Sraeg20131 votesFrankly Karma doesn't compare to Janna and Lulu. She's a mid lane reject that doesn't build AP, so her actual shield and peel is worthless. It's all tied to the player face-rolling the keyboard over all active items.