New Swain be like:

No, I merely stated an information.

Looks like Boards are full of critics from Rotten Tomatoes.

By the way the Last Jedi hit an all time low there and has currently a 49% audience rating. Ouch.

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there was no shitting on any important established characters, the original trilogy characters acted like they would have given 34 years. (...) Luke retreating to a spot alone is exactly what luke would do, hell man luke did it more than once in the original trilogy. luke is older than he was on endor, and since then it is not entirely unrealistic to assume that he would choose to not go ballistic and follow his feeling sto the level h edid in the original trilogy, especially if he was learning the proper way of the jedi, because that would teach him to be calmer.

Luke rage quit, because of one failure. Not to mention he almost murdered his relative and an apprentice, because he MIGHT turn evil - you know, they guy who knew one of two most evil people in existence could be brought back to the Light. His actions in the new trilogy are fundamentally opposite of how Luke behaved and who he was.

Leia knowing the force now is not especially random, leia was also a child of darth vader and given 34 years if in that time span luke never taught her how to use the force then you should have been dissapointed. also leia's track record for strategy was never really great. she got captured more than once trying one of her plans in the original trilogy. she was always a fuck it up and then have someone else get her out, or create a big enough distraction to let her get out herself.

Leia was Force-sensitive, yes, but it doesn't explain her plot armor being so thick she's tougher than a spaceship. Add that idiotic Mary Poppins ass-pull in a situation she should die 3 times over. She approves of Poe's plan, which succeeds and allows them to live another day and then behaves like a bitch who can't take responsibility, blames it all on Poe and demotes him and leaves a complete moron in command.

The new characters are not pointless, it would probably be pretty boring to watch a much older luke and leia explore the galaxy, so the new characters were required. the only issue is that one of them is marey sue through and through.

My issue isn't that there are new characters, but the fact they don't do anything. In the first movie Finn doesn't do anything, in the second he embarks on a completely pointless mission and gets denied a self-righteous sacrifice by a whale whose IQ level rivals those horse-dogs. Admiral Gender Studies through her incompetence and superiority complex allows a mutiny, let's other ships be destroyed so she can have her own glorious moment of killing herself in a way that required nobody to die and which could've been done a long time before.

The characters do develop a lot though. or atleast finn and kylo do, poe never gets enough screen time to develop, and rey is not a well written cahracter from the outset, but finn goes from a first order defecter into his own character in 7, (ignore rey's influence on breaking the story from 8) and kylo goes from what amounted to a petulent child into a very real and very dangerous dark lord.

Finn the mop runs away after seeing some blood, proceeds to not do anything for a whole film while being Rey's faithful dog. In the next movie he's not allowed to see character development, beyond a highly forced romance. Kylo's character development, if any, doesn't matter, because Rey was born superior. Poe is the most developed character and the only one believable of the whole bunch, despite screenwriters trying to make him an idiot at every occassion. Phasma, one of the most hyped up characters gets literally thrown to the trash without putting up a fight and comes back for the next movie to get smacked a bunch and die for good. 5 minutes of screen time total. Snoke the super-villain of the story gets no character development and dies to one of the oldest Force tricks.

34 years, if the first orders tech was not better than the original empires tech than honestly it would have just been a mess.

IT took the empire about 10 years to build the whole deathstar, starkiller base was a smaller contruction because it was just built into a planet, so it taking them 34 years to build the whole thing is actually much slower than the empire and fully believable. it shows that the star wars universe didn't just stop after we stopped watching it.

Starkill Base smaller? Have you watched those movies? They literally cut the planet IN HALF to make it a thing and the "barrel" of the weapon ALONE is bigger than the ENTIRE Deathstar and it's much smaller than the Deathstar's focusing dish in comparison to the size of the entire planet. The fact they did it in Unknown Regions without an entire infrastructure like the Empire had while building further destroyers and even a super-destroyer as a backup Doomsday Device is completely idiotic and people responsible for this plot expect the viewer is a braindead drone not a person.

also all three deathstars were destroyed in different ways.

The first one had a design flaw down the trench, the second one had an opening in the hull as it was incomplete and a ground team had t obe put down to unshield the whole design, and this one had a fully shielded weakness that they had to put a ground team down to disarm to open it up. the stakes were also different in all of the battles Deathstar 1 was going to essentially destroy the rebellion, deathstar 2 was the final obstacle to beating the rebellion, and starkiller base was the resistance destroying the first order's primary planetary base, forcing the first order into orbit for a great deal of the conflict.

The first one was destroyed by a conveniently placed weakness that required hundreds of sacrifices to assault an Imperial planet and steal plans, the second was destroyed before it was fully constructed, the third one was destroyed by a conventionally placed weakness that even a fucking janitor knew.

the thing that made it fantastic is that all of your points are points taken from the perspective of someone that does not watch starwars that much and only has vague memories of those moveies being good and not remembering anything specific other than that, and then going to the new movies and not immediatly seeing on face value how good these movies were immediatly, and then because you haven't had them around long enough you convice yourself that it is overdone and bad when in reality these movies are actually of a quality that is quite good.

That's exactly what I'd say about your point of view. You are in love with an incoherent mess of a story that contradicts itself and everything that came before. You don't look at it logically. Sure, maybe the Force Awakens HAD a chance of becoming good in the grand scheme of things, but by itself it's not good by any stretch and with the Last Jedi around it's even worse.

I will say right now that if you think that return of the jedi is better than episode 7 then you must not have watched them both recently. and episode 8 is still without a doubt better than episode 1 and 2.

I don't need to watch the entire series in a marathon to realize a new movie is trying to insult my intelligence, which ironically seems to be the general consensus. Except here on the Boards apparently.

Stop convincing yourself star wars is not as good as it used to be and you will start to see the new star wars as pretty alright films.

I came to the Force Awakens having no expectations and it wasn't even 10 minutes into the movie when they started pulling unforgivable bullshit.

You know, I'm actually very hard to be displeased by a movie or a series. I mean at one point I had to take a notch from almost 200 animes on my profile on My Anime List, because I ran out of stars to give to outstanding ones. Sure there were few series I dropped or put on hold_(indefinitely)_, but I was perfectly aware at the time they aren't "bad", just not my thing.

But knowing there are people who are completely fine eating human excrements, there's no accounting for taste.

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there was no shitting on any important established characters, the original trilogy characters acted like they would have given 34 years.

retconning everything they achieved in the ot is a pretty big middle finger in my book to the original characters. Lea and han are in the exact same situation they were before the ot (fuck everything is) and luke is replaced by completely different character. "people change" my ass u can´t turn a 180y on a character without a proper explanation and the little bits we got there laughable.

The new characters are not pointless,

ofc new characters were needed, that´s why it´s such a shame we didn´t get any good new characters and no one expected the new films to be all about the old crew. But when it comes to motivation, goals, consistency and having a character ark those characters all fall flat.

• rey is such a complete trainwreck of a character that i don´t want to waste time going into detail.

• Poe is just an ace-pilot in the first film and thankfully gets some attention in the second one and even then it´s just the bare minimum and gets even further dragged down by how contrived the whole plot point with holdo was (because the film acts like poe learned from his mistake, even though he did nothing wrong lol. in the end he shows good leadership skills and becomes the leader because leia is getting too old for that shit apparently. It´s a good development and it could have had a bigger impact if he got just a little more screentime so that the viewer can see the character reflect on his action the whole situation etc. )

• Finn is an inconsistent mess in the first film and has barely anything to do in the second one. The only character development this character has that is actually believable is when he stops running away and is willing to sacrifice himself for others. People always claim he goes from a lot of changes and that is true he turns from a defector to a good guy and it would have been nice if that transition took more than 5min total. The movie tells us that he was a stormtrooper, but none of his actions or lines reflect that. As soon as he leaves the first order he is just like everyone else. He blends in way too good considering his background.

and whats with his moral-compass btw?

• defects because one of his "friends?" dies in front of him.(idk movie doesn´t tell me this) Turns out that murdering civilians is quite the gruesome act and finn is terrified, so I have to assume that it´s his first mission apparently (idk movie doesn´t tell me either)
• then he tries to escape and saves the guy, who is responsible for the death of his comrade (if i remember correctly) wtf?
• then continues to murder all his former comrades without a single thought (finn? i thought killing was bad. but hey why would a former stromtrooper value the lifes of other stormtroopers, but fuck it he is finn the good guy now)

so gj you had a good idea "stormtrooper gone rogue" and then failed in the execution by ignoring the stormtrooper-part entirely, i guess being a coward was the more important character trait here and o boy did we flesh that out like it took us one cantina scene and one attack to go from coward to hero.

from 8) and kylo goes from what amounted to a petulent child into a very real and very dangerous dark lord.

yet again good idea executed horribly. introducing kylo as a whiny darth vader wannabe was something i really liked. i was totally in for a young, inexperienced antagonist that grows alongside the protagonist, so they can mirror each other. The problem here is that we get next to nothing to support the character. What is his plan? why is he evil? No one knows and it´s apparently not important for the main antagonist, because snoke is apparently even less important, to have motivation and a backstory. heck no one needs a backstory not even the galaxy needs.

30 years or so have passed and we know nothing about what happened after rotj. And twa couldn´t be bothered to give us any information, because "exposition is boring" just accept that everything is now the exact opposite of what it was before ( so pretty much where anh started? how convenient!) for no reason because fuck consistency in storytelling. where the fuck did snoke came from btw? What was his plan? did he had a concrete plan besides "rule the galaxy because why not?" no one knows because backstories and world building are for nerds and get in the way of special effects and action pieces and rehashing the ot while also mocking the ot.

the thing that made it fantastic is that all of your points are points taken from the perspective of someone that does not watch starwars that much and only has vague memories of those moveies being good and not remembering anything specific other than that, and then going to the new movies and not immediatly seeing on face value how good these movies were immediatly, and then because you haven't had them around long enough you convice yourself that it is overdone and bad when in reality these movies are actually of a quality that is quite good.

no! i rewatch the older movies and the prequels on a regular base and i can tell you the difference in quality is so huge it´s sad. And all the good-cgi, funny dialogue and cinematographic won´t save you when you are trying to tell a story devoid of every substance with blander characters in an even blander universe where everything is in stasis. people crap on the prequels but atleast those film told a coherent story the main fucking objective of a film i might add. they didn´t shroud everything in mystery just for rian jhonson to come along to piss all over your expectation. rian is such a hack writer. subversion just for subversion's sake without pay off, who would have thought that the audience would be pissed when all their questions, which were deliberately set up by J.J that lazy twat, would be answered with "nobody" , "doesn´t matter" and "fuck luke jake skywalker". rian you think you are so clever, meanwhile, you are the only person that "doesn´t get it".

I will say right now that if you think that return of the jedi is better than episode 7 then you must not have watched them both recently. and episode 8 is still without a doubt better than episode 1 and 2.

Stop convincing yourself star wars is not as good as it used to be and you will start to see the new star wars as pretty alright films.

7 & 8 below the prequels am sorry. For people that just want to watch a scifi-flick and don´t care about star wars 7 and 8 a clearly more entertaining. ( term is not even right here but who cares about consistency disney surely doesn´t ) but for a star wars fan there is hardly anything for you in this movies. they offer you 2 underdeveloped characters and the same conflict from the original movies with slight variations. just watch the older one. that is the problem when the ones making the film only think from scene to scene, because that is the only thing you are left with. you have some scenes and shots u like and as soon as u try to think about the overarching story or the characters in that story you realize how lackluster those films are in that department. Nothing happens, nothing matters and i couldn´t be bothered to watch the third film in a fucking trilogy because the previous two went nowhere from a story standpoint.

Silly me, how could I forget?

Ah, right, because he gets put down like a dog.