Boards›Gameplay

Why is Rengar punished for playing 3v3?

kargish··1 votes·677 views

It doesn't make sense really, Rengar Rengar can only reach a potential 3 trophies and will therefore lose 13% bonus AD and 13 AD, which is one heck of a power decrease. I have learned that there are other champions out there that get decreased effectiveness on 3v3, but for Rengar's case it's absolutely extreme. Let's take a look at Renekton instead, who loses a bit of health on his ultimate with every rank. 250 health is lost on Renekton's rank 3 ult.

Rengar AD bonus loss 15.3 AD from Runes 10 AD from Mastery 13 AD from Passive 265 AD from Items according to highest winrate build http://champion.gg/champion/Rengar/Jungle

= 303.3 Bonus AD

x 0.13

= 39.429 AD

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Gold_efficiency

1 AD = 35g

~40 x 35g = 1400g at level 18 full item build lost

Is probably the highest Gold loss of all these.

Comparison to Renekton: 250HP x 2.6 = 650g

This is a rather heavy nerf just for playing on a different map

8 Comments

Modern Support2 votes

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tXDvtqTZWF65HIyvUlPt8m0QOj75m1KVLdah4ZVI4wE

Riot doesn't design or balance champions around TT. Rengar is decent even though he cannot get his other 2 stacks because of the brushes in key locations of the map.

A lot of the problems of TT come from SR balance since everything that happens on SR will happen to TT

kargish1 votes

I don't have any idea what your document is meant to show me, of course TT isn't the base for Riot's balancing, but if you actually read my original post you'd see that Rengar loses about 1400 gold worth of AD, just because he changes map. There's literally no other champion in the entire game, that comes even close to this number, and thus Rengar is the only one who has to pay that price. I am not saying he's a bad pick on TT, I am not saying that Rengar doesn't benefit from the map environment, but as you have written yourself having taken this much potential away from you, purely because you swap map, is a complexity issue

Modern Support1 votes

Mordekaiser lacks part of his kit in TT also.

Mordekaiser specifically loses his power in sieging with the dragon and the 10% hp the dragon would give you of it's HP.

Rengar loses potential of AD it's just like bounty hunter you can't make it to 5 stacks in TT so double edged or battle trance is better for early game power.

Should Bounty hunter, Mordekaiser, and Rengar be changed on TT because of this? No, absoutely not the map has fewer champions so the numbers should not be tuned up per stack.

kargish1 votes

Alright let's make a couple of scenarios here then

Mordekaiser usually builds a couple of different health items. The main items are rylai's, trinity, spirit visage and liandry's. Let us assume that Mordekaiser has built all of these.

1766+250+300+450+300 = 3066 health at level 18

With a 10% increase from the dragon, Mordekaiser would get 306,6 extra health.

306,6 x 2,6 = 797,16

This health lost is equivilant to 800 gold lost

Shyvana gains 5 armor and magic resist with every dragon kill. Let's assume that Shyvana slays 4 dragons in a normal 5v5 game.

20 x 20 = 400 20 x 18 = 360 = 760

This is just below Mordekaiser's gold loss

797,16/1400 = 0,56

760/1400 = 0,54

So Mordekaiser and Shyvana only lose about 55% of the gold that Rengar loses, which is a huge damn deal. You cannot compare these fellas with Rengar, he loses way more potential than they ever will.

Modern Support1 votes

I removed the Shyvanna bit.

Shyvanna doesn't lose anything they never stated it in the patch but if you kill vile you get 5 armor and MR.

It doesn't matter if he loses potential the map only has 3 champions it shouldn't give you the full value of it ever since SR has 5 champions while TT has 3.

The King Discord1 votes

rengar can get the 6th stack if kha is on other team

kargish1 votes

As we all know Kha'zix is often picked in 3v3

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

Ivern outright doesn't have a passive on ARAM.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by kargish

It's absurd that RIot has allowed this to happen for so long. Rengar suffers while Twitch is around.
Gameplay140 comments
184
votes
With all this talk about Candy Kayn
Memes & Games38 comments
146
votes
This shouldn't had taken this long
Gameplay88 comments
140
votes
Riot should learn from Earth's history about power creep
Memes & Games62 comments
110
votes
Soon™ everyone
Memes & Games25 comments
102
votes
Hold on a second
Gameplay40 comments
101
votes