Veigar has little counterplay

Mãge··3 votes·1,090 views

From my experience of Riot's definition of "windows of opportunity" and my experience with playing against Veigar, I can confidently say that some parts of Veigar's kit lack counterplay*. The asterisk is for the catch, which is IF you're a champion that builds a lot of AP. The first problem is Vegiar's E. It's a circle AOE stun, that, even with an outplay on Veigar's opponent's part, still traps his opponent within an area for a set amount of time, bar the use of flash/similar blinks. That means you MUST stay a set distance away from Veigar if you want to avoid being hit by his ultimate. I think it should be tweaked slightly. Second, but not least is his ultimate. His ultimate is synonymous with the word boring. And it's too punishing on AP champions for some (probably outdated) reason. All Veigar has to do is to get into range (similar to Akali, but ranged-style) and press R. If it were a regular nuke R, it wouldn't be terrible. But it isn't. It does damage using his opponent's AP. 80% of it. And another 120% of his own AP, combined with another bit of relatively fair base damage. I remember some gameplay designers mentioning something about not wanting games to start and end at champ select, and Veigar pushes his limit by being too punishing on AP champions. Zhonya's is not counterplay. It counters just about all damage in the game. Veigar's ultimate needs to be changed. It lacks depth and counterplay.

9 Comments

PiRoScOuT1 votes

viegar's ult lacks counterplay true, but as a viegar main you can counter him with ease. Step one pick fizz or zed, step 2 wait tell six, step 3 win. He was made to burst people down like an assassin, but with the skill set of a mage. He has no escapes and fizz's troll pull, talon's jump, and zed ult all make that e useless, and then they can kill him with ease. Viegar is just another counter to heavy ap mages, complain about fizz, zed, talon, syndria, annie, or ryze as well.

Mãge1 votes

That's a champ select thing. I don't think games should end at champ select.

Doogmi1 votes

He is weak to assassins(counterpick) all in's(counter play) qss/cleanse work great for walking out of the stun and living. Tenacity makes a big difference. Mikeals and banshees and zhonyas are other great options. Veig is strong against mages agreed, but there are so many champs that have kits designed to get through his aoe stun. Not to mention itemation to help you out play your opponent. Which is all leagues really is...

Decrous1 votes

The best way to play against a veigar is to not only be careful him him landing his stun, but to be able to know when you have to change your itemization. Instead of going for that quick deathcap, get a zhonya's to try and use it before his ult hits you or go for an abyssal (if you're someone like katarina and short range) and reduce the damage of his ult. I don't think his ult lacks counterplay. I just think that players are not good enough to know when they have to work on their itemization. Its the same thing with say lissandra VS an AD or a AP. If its AD she goes Armguard+morello. If its AP she goes chalice/unholygrail then gets a zhonyas.

Mãge1 votes

The difference is that if you're an AP champion, you can only neglect full AP items so much, JUST so that his ultimate doesn't scale off your own AP. You'll have to get that deathcap at some point. Zhonya's would be a poor choice, because it only increases his damage to you if you're stunned.

Decrous1 votes

I still disagree. Deathcap is not a necessity. It's super good to have, but you still aren't getting the idea.

Looking at items you can do this:

Deathcap = Give veigar and yourself tons of damage so he can 1shot you. Rylais = Give veigar roughly 60 less damage on his ultimate + have 500 extra health to be able to survive, while only having roughly 80 less AP from deathcap (numbers are not exact but it's what im working with for "first items") Abyssal = Give veigar roughly 55 less damage on his ultimate from your AP + have Magic resist to reduce that damage even further. Sure it only gives 80 AP but you also get the debuff aura to increase your damage to the entire enemy team. Zhonyas = Still reduces the damage you take from deathcap, but not only does it give you the opportunity to competely dodge veigar's ultimate with good timing but you'll be able to protect yourself from everyone and do more damage. The statis also provides time for your team to kill veigar or other champions giving you problems. Liandrys = Not particually amazing on some champions, but you do reduce veigars damage by roughly 100 via AP scaling + you get 300 hp. You don't do as much damage or get as much stats but you also get the nice %hp DoT which is nice for hurting the tankier enemys, Also scales well with rylais. Rod of the aegis = Less damage but A ton of Health and mana. (getting lazy to explainations shorter) Even Seraph's embrace would be decent because of the mana shield you get to save as much hp as you can from his ultimate.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

When I see a veigar picked on the enemy team and I'm mid, I change over my runes to pure penetration, and take similar itemization paths.

Instead of DC, I'll rush item 3136 item 3001 item 3020

On any mage with decent bases, you'll still deal a respectable amount of damage, and veigar's ult will be much less punishing.

Mãge1 votes

What do you build lategame?

Hyrum Graff1 votes

Something like this, but obviously situational depending on the rest of veigar's team comp:

item 3020 item 3151 item 3135 item 3174 item 3157 item 3001

A banshees can go a long way, too.

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