"Part of the reason Ryze has been hard to balance in the past......

Sona x Rubick·Jul 24, 2016·34 votes·2,285 views

is because he's mainly just brought damage" -Meddler

it's almost like it doesn't make me remember, people.

50 Comments

Zane ZephyrJul 24, 201622 votes

What separates ryze from them is that he had some form of CC in his kit, and also one that he can spam very consistently in the hands of people that have mastered it and leave little to no counterplay for people once they get caught in addition to all of his damage

Sona x RubickJul 24, 20168 votes

sounds like tryndamere.

RivuoJul 24, 201631 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona x Rubick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nAERUtEm,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-07-24T18:28:22.347+0000)

sounds like tryndamere.

tryndamere and olaf are just really bad concepts in general.

One doesnt die while hitting you for all your health in 1-2 seconds

The other is immune to everything while building tank while slaughtering your adc in 2 seconds

Sona x RubickJul 24, 201611 votes

olaf has his tankiness reduced when he presses R

olaf has counterplay on every ability, tryndamere just rightclick you down

olaf needs to move to pick up his axe, his W has a FUCKING long cooldown, and his E needs him to attack to reduce the cooldown.

RivuoJul 24, 201621 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona x Rubick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nAERUtEm,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-24T18:34:21.385+0000)

olaf has his tankiness reduced when he presses R

olaf has counterplay on every ability, tryndamere just rightclick you down

olaf needs to move to pick up his axe, his W has a FUCKING long cooldown, and his E needs him to attack to reduce the cooldown.

He doesnt lose his tankiness when he presses R.. He loses his bonus free armor and mr he gets lol. That literally means nothing when you're building tank

Whats the counterplay to olafs reckless swing? Him losing some health but regenning it right back?

Im agreeing with you, But olaf is just as fuckin stupid imo. This is coming from every adc main he has no counterplay except flash over a wall

Sona x RubickJul 24, 20166 votes

and jarvan azir who knows how many champions can build walls now.

i said he has his tankiness reduced not removed, and 40 armor/mr IS SOMETHING WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.

RivuoJul 24, 20168 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona x Rubick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nAERUtEm,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-24T18:53:06.529+0000)

and jarvan azir who knows how many champions can build walls now.

i said he has his tankiness reduced not removed, and 40 armor/mr IS SOMETHING WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.

Yes his 40 armor/mr is something definitly, But when its free then it doesnt hurt him if he loses it when he gains ''immune to every CC except death''

There is a major lack of counterplay from olaf. Not many people can disagree.

Toplane FencerJul 25, 20161 votes

It does hurt him doh, now people deal more damage to him. It's true that it isn't that big of a debuff but you can't just ignore it.

maikokkJul 25, 20161 votes

except that if you cant cc olaf he its tankier than if you can because you cant prevent him from lifestealing... which is the usual way to counter a drain tank

Toplane FencerJul 25, 20162 votes

He is more susceptible to burst though.

AFK PushJul 25, 20161 votes

Back in season 5 when item 1401 and item 3800 were at their strongest I used to build him full tank, ult, then righteous glory initiate into the enemy team and then every member of their team just wasted their ults and flashes on me out of fear. Good times.

KeepeJul 24, 201613 votes

Build a wall, and make Shurima pay for it.

BeatzBoyFTWJul 25, 20161 votes

https://pics.onsizzle.com/Facebook-Trumpzir-f9537f.png

ArkatraJul 25, 20161 votes

Taliyah is better for this meme.

Diananmen SquareJul 24, 20162 votes

Not to mention activating Olaf's ult gives him AD as well.

RalanrJul 24, 20166 votes

That's probably because you're an ADC main and rely on peel to live. Of course you'd hate Olaf.

Toplane FencerJul 25, 20161 votes

He does loose tankiness as he loses armor and mr. Armor and Mr equals tankiness.

darkestkhanJul 24, 20161 votes

Sure, tyndamere can right click through Teemo blind...

Voluug13Jul 24, 20161 votes

He can live through it and then right click you to death.

AptestJul 25, 20161 votes

he lives through it but then he's on a shroom and gets slowed while teemo runs away laughing. and since he didn't get any crits he doesn't have his spin up and can't follow.

CppLJul 25, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona x Rubick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nAERUtEm,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-24T18:34:21.385+0000)

olaf has his tankiness reduced when he presses R

olaf has counterplay on every ability, tryndamere just rightclick you down

olaf needs to move to pick up his axe, his W has a FUCKING long cooldown, and his E needs him to attack to reduce the cooldown.

At least you can cc chain tryndamere ,you can even slow him to death.What can you do vs olaf who runs at you with ghost+ultimate? also "his W has a cooldown" what kind of the counterplay is that ?:DD

TotalJerkJul 26, 20161 votes

If tryndamere ults at you as Fiddlesticks or Lux you can CC him and run for a few seconds. If Olaf ults at you as Fiddlesticks or Lux you just fucking die.

Only Play DariusJul 24, 201613 votes

All 3 of those champions are melee, 2 of them have absolutely no CC whatsoever, and only 1 is actually useful in teamfights. Ryze has none of these issues.

MarshbouyJul 25, 20165 votes

OP has no idea what the fuck he is talking about.

IS3E531E3F964391Jul 24, 20166 votes

I personally have a bigger problem with yi because kiting becomes irrelevant vs him.

AninLegions777Jul 24, 20161 votes

Except you are using Ashe/Vayne and Kiting is irrelevant. Just stand CC and AA him to death with mortal reminder. But you can Kite with lucian and ghost blade. Wait for him to ult use E>Ghostblade>R in the direction he's coming from. GG. He's now full of lead.

mason waterJul 25, 20161 votes

magic lead*

AninLegions777Jul 25, 20161 votes

True! :O

Only Play DariusJul 25, 20162 votes

It's funny many ADC's can just sit there and out damage him late game (hello Twitch) No need to even try kiting

AninLegions777Jul 25, 20161 votes

Just too much dmg. If they aren't CCed and blown up fast it's gg. Except you are using Jax. Then you're good. ;)

DarkRitualJul 24, 20161 votes

As an ADC, the best defense against Yi is good teammates to peel.

Only Play DariusJul 25, 20161 votes

ADC's aren't supposed to kite Yi. They're supposed to stay behind their team who will keep him at bay while the ADC hits him from range (assuming you didn't draft a terrible comp)

ArkatraJul 25, 20161 votes

My favourite moment, when my ADC go into panic and flash away the moment Yi alphad. Though, yi is not picked that much anymore, i still remember these moment.

DarkRitualJul 24, 20162 votes

The difference is they want ryze to be a champ that spams his spells. Two of those you mentioned are very AA reliant, while Kat is a melee burst assassin.

Having low CD spells with good scalings would be way too much. They wanted him to have lower cooldowns, so the scalings need to be different. Most carries have traditional AD/AP scalings, so having a carry scale off of another stat means balancing off of a criteria not normally balanced off of.

Sona x RubickJul 24, 20161 votes

so that's why they gave him utility?

DarkRitualJul 24, 20162 votes

They've been moving away from "I have abilities that all do damage" so utility is a good way to fill a kit out without making them just a damage dealer.

Twerk a FishJul 25, 20161 votes

Problem with Ryze is that he has too much damage and utility to be a spam mage Riot wants. Before Ryze hit power spike after ROA and tear had stacked. Now he hits power spike after first mana item.

Ryze became A LOT stronger early game, he has still super-spam kit, but his damage numbers and ratios are too big.

MarshbouyJul 25, 20162 votes

It's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ckIwozedAY like (15% spell vamp) you (4 second root spam) have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

Sona x RubickJul 25, 20162 votes

you mean meddler right?

MarshbouyJul 25, 20163 votes

I did not think someone could be that stupid. I really didn't. Lemme spell it out nice and slow for you.

Mastery yi, katarina, and tryndamere are all meelee champions. Only one has a CC, even then it's a tiny slow.

All of them require some sort of snowball potential to get going or just need a certain thing to happen. (kill resets or enough gold to get good items. trynd can just splitpush with his ult and his E)

Ryze brought nothing but damage and a 2 second root. If his damage was too high he was cancerous because he was one shotting everyone and perma rooting someone and locking them down for a guarnteed kill. If his damage was too low he was just a shitty low range mage that brought nothing but damage and a garbage snare to the table. He'd die before he even left the

if he was strong or ahead he was too powerful, he couldn't be kited or shut down easily.

If he was behind or underpowered he was trash tier.

TwinkieProJul 25, 20161 votes

He brought that much damage because of his sustained damage combos. he still has a fuckton of damage, but now its limited, where his longest combo is: q e q w q e q. He's basically the same, but with a better teamfight oriented ult, which helped fix most of his problems.

mike in the boxJul 25, 20161 votes

Yi and Tryndamere are not all damage. Tryndamere has 2 non damage abilities and ye has a self heal.

Kat is a balance nightmare

TwinkieProJul 25, 20161 votes

Well, in fairness, both have sustain and a gap closer, but one has a slow and AD reducer and never dies, while the other runs at you and hopes you die before you can cc him more.

cinomenapplebaeJul 25, 20161 votes

cc and kiting

A LiberalJul 25, 20161 votes

To be fair... Ryze is/always has been a mage... Kat is an assassin and Yi and Trynd are damage heavy fighters.... so... not really the same thing....

NoblewindJul 25, 20161 votes

These champs have almost never been in the Patch Notes for problems with their kits, only Master Yi was recently but it was more due to issues with Rageblade/Devourer which created Tank Yi, so I don't see why this quote is being called out. If they just read the actual context below the quote they'd see it was quite reasonable.

LankPantsJul 25, 20161 votes

It's Zed almost Zed like Zed this Zed is Zed a Zed running Zed problem

Pika FoxJul 25, 20161 votes

Ryze is an AP DPS mage, you listed two AD Hypercarries and an Assassin, who are pulled from different groups of champions.

BloodyTomponJul 25, 20161 votes

You mean those three that never see competitive play and are kept in that state on purpose?

xTropicalPenguinJul 25, 20161 votes

all those 3 have 3 damage moves and one utility. Yi has heal, Kat has her jump, trynd has ult. Ryze had 4 damaging moves, at least i'm pretty sure his bind does damage, so what point are you trying to make?