Let me break down the Cho'Gath "Buff" for you:

Lord Desert··6 votes·1,585 views

First of this is not a rant, I will provide evidence for my claim! I simply am analysing the situation.

This "Buff" will make Cho'Gath even worse than he is currently. And I will prove it to you! They also should look into his Abilitys which are bugged/ completely off their indicators. Take a look yourself Here.

Buffs:

  • Across the board buff lategame/endgame
  • Tank Cho does a bit more truedmg (still loses alot of HP from the ult early)
  • cant lose stacks (this should have never be done in the first place, just lower his stack losses)

Nerfs:

  • His stacking is slowed by 100%
  • His window of weakness is streched out by 100%
  • extremely less HP early
  • No mana refund( affects lanephase only, HP refund at 6 stacks is irrelevant)
  • Strategic Decision making is basicly removed and playstyle dumb down
  • Bigger Hitbox is bad

Infinite Stacks?

No, the max is around 20, because every game ends after this number, 100%, even the 80min dignitas game would have generated at best 20 stacks for a Cho'Gath. When Cho'Gath gets a stack the next one is more likely to end the game unlike Sion, Veigar and Nasus. They can stack without ending the game of it. If we look at a game length of 35min you should get around 14 stacks in a really good game, 10ish in a normal game, 6-7 in a bad game. We can compare his stacking to Kindreds, not Veigar, Nasus or Sion! Dont let those Youtuber and Streamer fool you! High rank =/= Knows everything! Technically speaking his stacking is weaker then Kindreds, but we will not discuss this here.


#The math proving my claims:

Here I will show you why this "buff" belongs ether into the trashcan or back to the drawing board and not on the liveservers! Old Cho gets ether 2 Stacks/champ or 50% CD refund, so he takes only half the time to reach 6 stacks if he Omnomnoms everytime its of CD. With 20% cdr, his R has a 64sec CD.

Old Cho: 192 sec/ 3:12 mins to get 6 stacks, which grants 600/840HP New Cho:_ 384 sec/ 6:24 min to get 6 stacks, which grants 480/660 HP_

AND

#When old Cho hits 6 stacks, 600HP, the new Cho only has 3 stacks, 240HP!!!

The new Cho loses up to 360HP! compared to the old Cho'Gath in his best phase, the early midgame! The new Cho is a Giants Belt weaker in the midgame! While his best winrate is around 25min, because of this strong early midgame! And you are nerfing him by 1k Gold in this phase!

I cant be the only who sees that this "buff" in a meta with 20-25min games, is not exactely a good buff. And he also needs to kill 1 epic/champ when hes at 5 to get to the old 6 stacks. Which also give less HP.


And we arent finished yet....

With only 1 stack from champs and no refund, the downtime, thus the window of weakness, is increased by 100% too. Great this gets better and better by the minute :D

Next his new "best" playstyle: Cant get more stacks from minions after 5 stacks? Also no benefit from killing champs with it? Ok, we will always use the ult on minions, as soon as it is up we chomp a minion. Why would you wait and dont use your ult if you dont get a higher penalty from getting killed and also delay your 5 stacks point further?

Ether you jump the enemy the secound it is up or nom a minion... Fantastic improvement of the strategic thinking, where you were holding on to your ult so you would get 2 stacks instead of only 1.


#Bigger Hitbox

Ah thats good you can block skillshots for your allies, I mean you will be a massiv tank too, so you can take the hits with ease... Normaly that would be the case, yes. But beeing as big as a 8 floor house, in height and witdh, makes it impossilbe to dogde anything. Blocking crucial skillshots is nice but eating every poke without having anyform of sustain other then base HP Reg doesnt cut it for a while :/

Oh and normally the hardest-to-hit skillshots also do the most dmg. And you eat all of them if you want or not :D Even FullTanks get into trouble if they eat every single poke. Remember dodging something does inifitly less dmg than beeing forced to eat everything... So beeing a moving mountain, with no sustain, beeing full tank or not does have some drawbacks folks.


I told riot a couple of times that this is not a good buff, but spotting 1 comment out of one thousand is quiet difficult. Thats why I made this post after the offical release not before, hoping they would have changed it...

Lets put it all together:

  • extremely nerfed midgame (up to 360 less HP)
  • doubled window of weakness and stacking time
  • weaker laneingphase(less HP, lower mana)
  • his playstyle/decision making got dumbed down
  • hes to big later
  • he gets a lategame HP increase as compensation (in a early/20min game meta)
  • not losing the stacks is great, but it honestly feels wrong, he should get punished somehow.

Cho'Gath, having Azir level winrate(45% and less) for a couple dozent of patches, and beeing not viable in high elo even for mains, gets this "buff".... I call this a nerf with a compensation! Please for the love of the allmight Omnomnomner, disprove what I just claimed! Give me a reason to believe that this is indeed a buff! I absolutly by any means cant see any...

Games to short, %dmg everywhere, his best time nerfed heavily, still unreliable dmg, bad synergys with items/keystones some got/get even nerfed (Rylais, Cunning), Tanks are weak and honestly now get screwed by a 1300g Item... x3 Lethality + 1300g now destroys tanks. I see no light at the end of the tunnel for him, but I will play him to see if my claims and math were wrong, but I doubt it... His playrate will increase by 3-4%, but I can imagen that his winrate might drop even further! But atleast beginners do not get that hard punished when they test out Cho. Thats the only positiv thing.

9 Comments

God Raijin1 votes

Overall, yeah it's probably going to drop his winrate.

item 3027 into tank top lane cho (if people still build that) Will be dealing more damage on his ult, but thats pretty much the only upside considering late game doesn't exist right now.

I also find it funny how riot reasons losing stacks: "reverse snowballing made him a gamble"

Well it's like you said, cho will have a item 1011 Less now when he hits 6 stacks than he would have before. In some situations, you have to think to yourself "If I had an extra giant's belt in that situation would I have died in the first place?"

Like, 1 of 2 things is probably going to happen.

  1. A bunch of people are going to try him out, his winrate will drop. Riot will spend weeks watching him, deciding to not make any changes, because "it must be a bunch of new people playing cho, so once they get better, then we will decide to buff him or not."

2.Riot is just like, alright we stirred up the cobwebs on an old champion, lets revist him 2 years from now, or rework him entirely 5 years from now and not touch him till then.

Lord Desert1 votes

Even if we have this "not losing stacks" mechanic, it takes to much time and leaves Cho far to vulnurable. He basicaly only has 2 spells when his Ult is on CD. And the Q is extremely hard to land against decent enemys and E only counts as a spell if you do atleast 3 AAs on the enemy. Also Q and W cost 1/4 of your mana each xD Good oponents can abuse this very easily. Getting less HP slower, but reliable and more lategame is at best an even trade, a powershift. AT BEST! But he is at a 45% winrate xD A powershift doesnt cut it. And a powershift into a nonexistant lategame even less...

I can totally understand if the changes sound like a buff, even a pretty good buff. I mean inifite stacks and not losing them sounds broken! But it clearly isnt a buff when you look deeper :D

I can understand the "reduce the gamble" thinking, think about the old Cho having "unlimited" stacks and losing half when killed :D 10 hard earned champion stacks down the drain from 1 mistake xD That would be indeed pretty brutal! But permanent defense and offense stacks? Meh, I dont like it.

They could have changed it to: For stacks 1-5 use the old Ult mechanic (2 for champs, 50% cd refund for minions) After that only from Champs& Epics and gaining only 1 Stack, not 2. (Hes pretty full after all that eating, but some space could still be filled :P) But he always loses 1 stack if he dies. (maybe 2 stacks). 180 to 140 HP/stack is fine because we can get more stacks now. You would have 120HP less at 6 stacks, which is managable, and not this 360HP deficit monster!

This would be far more reasonable.

Hopefully Riot doesnt wait to long to tweak this. But I am really currious if the winrate will drop like predicted! I mean you have more HP than the old Cho, when played badly. So his winrate could potentionally improve.

Wind Whistler2 votes

He's on Riot's hate list now. Cho'Gath is absolutely screwed.

Lord Desert1 votes

My hope is that they just didnt realize what this change exactly does, that can happen! Sometimes if you focus on 1 thing to hard you forget to check the hole picture.

God Raijin1 votes

Well just checking in on this thread now that Cho has had over a week to be played. His winrate according to OP.GG in Diamond ranked is now second to last just behind Azir he's sitting at a 43.94% winrate.

Lord Desert1 votes

I have checked a couple other statsites too, they all show his winrate about 45%. At least it didnt drop even further, but 45% is still far from a healthy state ^^ So it was not just a straight buff or made him op like some said. Math once again proved to be true xD

Terchio1 votes

I'm not even mad about any of this. This feels like a wash when losing stacks doesn't exist to me. However, it's annoying to me that in the later phases of the game, Cho is now designed to KS at every possible opportunity. It felt way better being able to hang onto Feast in case I needed to chomp down a carry further in the fight, or just give a kill to an actual carry, and save the chomp for minions/monsters.

Lord Desert1 votes

I also dislike that he doesnt lose stacks, if they had brought it down to losing 1 or 2 stacks on death that would have been fine with me! At least you can gain stacks from epics, but they have a very high cd before they respawn :/ So omnomnoming Champs is still unaVOIDable. But hey, he still can only eat 1 champion in a teamfight so the others can get kills too

Lord Desert1 votes

Boards never fails to astonish me... Im breaking down what this buff exactly does, comparing best and worst case, with the best case extremely nerfed and the worst case a slight buff, decently good in the lategame, which we currently dont have in 99% of the games. And the post gets downvoted a lot xD Even if you disagree, facts remain facts. Thats why I called this a break down. And not "My opinion of the chogath buff"...

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