Aery's cooldown is the problem

Rebonack·Nov 15, 2017·73 votes·6,388 views

Not the damage. Not the reliability. The cooldown. Aery only sticks with the target for two seconds before she begins heading back to you. In melee range, that means a two second cooldown. In 'Pantheon is spamming spears on cooldown' range, that's about four seconds. Four spears, four instances of small animals molesting his target for about 80 damage total.

Now let's compare to Arcane Comet.

So, assuming Panth is throwing spears at someone, the first triggers Arcane Comet. The second kicks the cooldown to 8 seconds. The third kicks the cooldown to 16 seconds. The fourth will lob Arcane Comet number two. Assuming both hit, that's ~60 damage.

Assuming BOTH HIT that's less DPS than Aery.

Whoever designed the cooldowns on these abilities did not the math.

58 Comments

AakeshNov 15, 20177 votes

Aery's cooldown is base on 2 secs it sticks to the target and how long it takes get back to you and never changes. (so some one like Swain and Pantheon well get lot of aery procs off they be near close by/all most on top of you)

Comet starts and 20 seconds until it's reduced to 8 seconds. Whoever is in charge of math at riot is fucking brain damage when Aery has been doing half the damage of comet but has a 100% chance to hit and can be cast 5 times in the time it takes for comet to come off cool down once.

RebonackNov 15, 201712 votes

{quoted}

Aery's cooldown is base on 2 secs it sticks to the target and how long it takes get back to you and never changes. (so some one like and well get lot of aery procs off they be near close by/all most on top of you)

Comet starts and 20 seconds until it's reduced to 8 seconds. Whoever is in charge of math at riot is fucking brain damage when Aery has been doing half the damage of comet but has a 100% chance to hit and can be cast 5 times in the time it takes for comet to come off cool down once.

It does seem a little odd, doesn't it?

Comet SHOULD be better for super long range poke Mages, but Aery's reliable damage still seems more valuable.

TerozuNov 16, 20172 votes

Aery has a max range, Comet doesnt.

RebonackNov 16, 201713 votes

{quoted}

Aery has a max range, Comet doesnt.

And what's that range again? Because I've seen her go flying across the map to hump my leg when I step on a Mushroom.

TerozuNov 16, 20172 votes

About 3/4 Lux Ult.

Bronze 6 YasuoNov 15, 20174 votes

Remove aery

RebonackNov 15, 201724 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bronze 6 Yasuo,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mzsiHNHd,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-15T19:43:06.752+0000)

Remove aery

Or double the time she sticks to foes from two seconds to four.

That would largely fix the problem.

OR just make Arcane Comet less terrible. A cooldown of 8 seconds at all levels would be a solid start.

Bard R FridayNov 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Or double the time she sticks to foes from two seconds to four.

That would largely fix the problem.

OR just make Arcane Comet less terrible. A cooldown of 8 seconds at all levels would be a solid start.

Did you know they're changing Aery's base damage to 15, bringing the damage in this scenario down to exactly Comet's damage? And if you say that's assuming Comet hits, then you are complaining about reliability, not cooldown.

LazyW0lfNov 16, 20172 votes

I'd rather they just make the cd on comet a static 8 seconds and make the missile speed scale with levels so at highers levels it's near impossible to miss but has tremendous counterplay early. This would also probably cement comet being the high scaling, later game damage keystone when compared to aery.

RebonackNov 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I'd rather they just make the cd on comet a static 8 seconds and make the missile speed scale with levels so at highers levels it's near impossible to miss but has tremendous counterplay early. This would also probably cement comet being the high scaling, later game damage keystone when compared to aery.

That's a pretty cool idea that probably deserves some play-testing.

PhDs NutsNov 16, 20174 votes

Aery should stick longer than a DoT lasts. Or DoTs shouldn't be allowed to trigger it more than once.

KuriekoNov 16, 20174 votes

The problem isnt Aery, its pantheon

Usually the abused isnt what needs changed, its the abuser.

RebonackNov 16, 20176 votes

{quoted}

The problem isnt Aery, its pantheon

Usually the abused isnt what needs changed, its the abuser.

I used Panth since his cooldowns line up nicely with the two abilities. But this applies to literally anyone with medium range harass. Teemo can proc it TWICE on one basic attack, for example.

KuriekoNov 16, 20171 votes

You're talking about extreme cases, abuse.

People with medium range harass normally are not able to use aery within 4 seconds of eachother.

Champions like Lux are harass based with Singularity and because the harass is on a higher cooldown, its not a problem.

When your harass is on little to no coolown, its not a problem.

Nerfing aery just fucks over everyone else, those champions will still be a problem because they will just find something else to abuse.

So yes, it is the abuser. Nerfing aery wont do anything with the abusers.

An Undead bratNov 16, 20173 votes

False, when you nerf the abuser, you force him to take the abused stuff because everything else is now ineffective. You need to change the abused to make it less attractive for the abuser or change the abuser with the same goal without virtually nerfing any of those - like putting mana on Sheen items so Yasuo doesn't want it.

The thing is, no, it's not "usually abuser", nor it's not usually the abused. You need to come up with solution that doesn't trash either - even though in this case Aery truly is a problem, see the post, that's what it is about.

KuriekoNov 16, 20171 votes

If they are nerfed and they are forced to take the abused stuff, its not abusive anymore because it doesnt have a drastically overpowered outcome.

Nerfing aery will not nerf pantheon or teemo. They are still going to be cancer top lane, they will just find something else to abuse. All nerfing aery will do is just nerf all the other champions like Lux who use it appropriately.

So yes, the abuser is the problem.

AimléssNov 16, 20171 votes

Lux should have more synergy with comet, with all the cc packed into her kit. If Aery is more viable on Lux than comet, then you can bet aery needs a nerf.

KuriekoNov 16, 20172 votes

Why? Harass based kit with AOE shield, aery should be a no brainer.

What cc? The slow she wont have because she detonates E? She has a mild bind on an easy to dodge Q, thats literally it

AimléssNov 16, 20171 votes

All of her damaging abilities except ult give her a 100% chance of landing comet unless the enemy dashes/flashes. That is the definition of synergy with Arcane Comet. Aery is obviously still viable, but how many champs have a kit better than Lux for using comet? If she won't even use it, we need a change.

ChaddyFantomeNov 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

All of her damaging abilities except ult give her a 100% chance of landing comet unless the enemy dashes/flashes. That is the definition of synergy with Arcane Comet. Aery is obviously still viable, but how many champs have a kit better than Lux for using comet? If she won't even use it, we need a change.

You mean 1 of them?

AimléssNov 18, 20171 votes

Unless they flash or something, there is no way comet is missing on her E the slow is perfect for comet. And her Q obviously snares.

Handy Sandy Nov 15, 20173 votes

its preseason bro

notice me Sin piNov 15, 201731 votes

it's definitely preseason and we shouldn't expect anything to be balanced, but i think rito still could have done some math without having to rely on preseason data for this one tho.

NevrankroatonNov 16, 20173 votes

I think Aerie damage is fine early, it scale horribly and I feel it is a rune made for early game. As you said, simply tweaking the CD early would be perfect and not hurt character that like this mastery without abusing it.

The problem is that Comet scale horribly in base dmg AND ratio, and CD is too high anyway.

Comet need buff. Aerie need a light CD nerf.

OwynNov 16, 20172 votes

also comet hit percentage is garbage from time to time, can even be 70%

Sraeg2013Nov 16, 20172 votes

Unless you have any kind of slow or hard CC attached to the proc'ing ability... then it has 120% hit rate.

CantHandleMySwagNov 15, 20172 votes

On Tito it activates 2 times on 1 aa if youre not too far away :)

ZaghyrNov 16, 20172 votes

I don't understand why Riot didn't nerf the cooldown the first time. But no, they thought nerfing the damage would solve the problem. You are completely right, the cooldown is the problem, not the damage. The only reason the rune is abused in the first place is because it is essentially on 2 second cooldown. The problem is the same for ranged mid laners. They should be taking arcane comet, but because they can use Aery so often, they opt to go for it instead. They should make the cooldown (or swing around the target) time like 4 or 5 seconds, and/or just nerf it for melee champs in general.

rtbf76109271Nov 16, 20172 votes

comet is on AOE which could potentially do more in teamfights. It also has considerably higher AP/AD ratios.

I don't see any reason that the two need to do the exact same damage in the early game, especially if the better early game one scales worse.

Nanuk PihoqahiakNov 16, 20171 votes

Because why would you take Comet when Aery is better in lane? Yes, it can hit multiple people. It can also miss.

RebonackNov 16, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Angus The Bear,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mzsiHNHd,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2017-11-16T15:32:52.361+0000)

Because why would you take Comet when Aery is better in lane? Yes, it can hit multiple people. It can also miss.

And being able to hit multiple people is only relevant in one lane.

rtbf76109271Nov 16, 20172 votes

I realize the meta is win lane early and snowball. However that could change, and if so comet might be better situationally.

It definitely scales better (0.4 bonus AD vs bonus 0.15 AD, 0.2 AP vs 0.1 AP) and can theoretically do more damage in a teamfight due to hitting 3+ enemies.

I don't think there is an argument as to which one is better in lane, Aery should always be doing more damage. I'm just saying, if they tweak other things and the meta slows down a bit, comet might look a lot better without even tweaking its numbers.

DOUBLE TAPPED ENov 16, 20172 votes

{quoted}

And being able to hit multiple people is only relevant in one lane.

And one lane is only relevant for ~1/3 of a game.

Jungle Lux GodNov 19, 20171 votes

Just because it can miss doesn't mean missing isn't useful. If it misses in the right direction relative to the target it can be used as a zoning tool for both the target in question (if they kite backwards after getting hit by your spell) or for other team members.

It's also worth noting that, depending on the champion, Comet can consistently hit its target if the champion in question has strong enough CC to hold the player in place long enough for the Comet to hit. I ended up getting Vel'Koz rather frequently in ARAM, and it seemed like his Q's slow was strong enough to guarantee a Comet hit if the Q hit while Comet was off CD.

ChiTenshiNov 16, 20172 votes

The Cooldown should scale on a stat (CDR/Movement Speed).

Would make Aery less of an issue early game.

(Would also stop people crying blindly that Sona is OP when this Rune is half the issue).

Proxy345Nov 16, 20172 votes

Its funny how Aery suddenly became a problem after alot of people thought the damage was too low at first lol

Jungle Lux GodNov 16, 20172 votes

Arcane Comet isn't weak, nor is it strictly inferior to Summon Aery. It's just that in an isolated context of raw single-target DPS from on-cooldown poke seems to favor Aery heavily, especially with a champion that can poke with Aery very frequently.

The three biggest edge-cases that favor Comet are when you hit more than one target (Comet deals more DPS over the same 4-move rotation if it hits one more target on either Comet, while Aery can't hit more than one target at a time), when you're playing a spam-happy caster that can trigger Comet more than once in a spell rotation (where someone like Karthus or Cassiopeia can potentially trigger it multiple times in the time Aery has to travel to its target location and travel back), or combo casters that blow their entire load in a handful of spells and have to wait for another round of their spells (like Zilean or Lux). In these situations Arcane Comet is strictly better because of how these champion's kits work.

Friendly RamNov 16, 20171 votes

i'd be fine with doubling aerys cd if it means damage stays constant.

RebonackNov 16, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Friendly Ram,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mzsiHNHd,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-11-16T00:20:21.756+0000)

i'd be fine with doubling aerys cd if it means damage stays constant.

It wouldn't be double the cooldown except on close range abilities/basic attacks. Really I suspect all we need is to have Aery stick to foes for 4 seconds instead of 2.

Giving Arcane Comet an 8 second cooldown at all levels probably wouldn't hurt either. The thing can already be dodged.

Akali PrimeNov 16, 20171 votes

i fought against a teemo that could proc aery twice with just two autos because of his poision. so thats a thing aswell.

TheHappyReaperzNov 16, 20171 votes

Why does Aery have such a short CD? You should trade reliable damage/shielding, for a longer CD.

LordGeovanniNov 16, 20171 votes

thing is anything over 400 range arey takes the same amount of time to return to you give or take miliseconds. unless you are running away from where you were when she detaches from your ally or the enemy.

JoeMGNov 16, 20171 votes

Anyone else feel like Aery and Comet are too similar? Both involve hitting a spell and procing some extra damage. I know they have their differences, but are they unique enough?

RebonackNov 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Anyone else feel like Aery and Comet are too similar? Both involve hitting a spell and procing some extra damage. I know they have their differences, but are they unique enough?

Probably not.

I still think it would be really cool if Comet left a burn zone on the ground where it hits.

Kahl Drogo98Nov 16, 20171 votes

or maybe even slowed the target, kind of like a xerath W

Funkin DunkinNov 16, 20171 votes

Arey can proc twice from Teemo poison if hit by Q > AA

NTrumpWeTrustNov 16, 20171 votes

any longer and people will just use comet all the time instead. Aery shouldn't proc twice on teemo poison or malz E, that's abusive and needs to be fixed.

RebonackNov 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

any longer and people will just use comet all the time instead. Aery shouldn't proc twice on teemo poison or malz E, that's abusive and needs to be fixed.

Sticking to foes for 4 seconds instead of 2 would have relatively little impact on long range skills while nerfing close to medium range application of Aery, where most of the abuse is coming from.

And Comet doesn't shield allies.

NTrumpWeTrustNov 16, 20171 votes

Who is abusing it in your opinion?

Sonic AdventureNov 16, 20171 votes

I tested Aery and Arcane Comet with many champions, even Zyra spamming aery with plants and I obtain a higher damage number with comet in over 90% of the cases.