Everyone Complaining About Vayne

doiminat0r3600·Jul 27, 2015·9 votes·1,191 views

Why now? Why not ~3 months ago when she was at her prime in the tank meta? What happened?

The reason for me saying this is because about 3 months ago, I posted a thread about Vayne and her TD being OP in the current tank meta. Instantly it got downvoted and I was being flamed by people saying that she has so much counterplay. Now everyone is complaining about it being OP and I have no idea why now its coming up. Is it just that everyone is NOW realizing that she is that strong? Or is it that nobody saw her that way during the TANK meta?

17 Comments

VentiraJul 27, 20158 votes

It's because this forum is garbage, and about three months late to the party every time.

Prospector PeteJul 27, 20152 votes

GASP! IT'S CALLED THE BOARDS, NOT THE FORUMS!

VentiraJul 27, 20157 votes

[{quoted}](name=Prospector Pete,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mVRHTE6U,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-07-27T17:52:42.059+0000)

GASP! IT'S CALLED THE BOARDS, NOT THE FORUMS!

SCREW THE RULES, I HAVE GREEN HAIR.

A Miss FortuneJul 27, 20151 votes

why green

VentiraJul 27, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mVRHTE6U,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-27T20:35:27.424+0000)

why green

Tis a reference my good sir/madam to Yugioh the Abridged Series .

A Miss FortuneJul 27, 20152 votes

i like green

EndlessSorcererJul 27, 20155 votes

I think part of it is that we are leaving the tank meta. Vayne is squishy and has to be in autoattack range to contribute to a fight, so she can easily get screwed over by CC and hard-initiation (which tanks provided a lot of). In addition, while her Silver Bolts would deal significant damage to tanks, they would still survive quite a while since they would stack armor.

Now that bruisers and assassins are coming back, she doesn't have to worry quite as much about getting locked down by CC or having the entire enemy team jumping on her face. Assassins and bruisers will typically dive her solo, so she can take advantage of her dueling capabilities and kite them out long enough to kill them before rejoining the fight.

The bot lane meta has changed quite a bit as well, but I forget the specifics. I believe that poke supports (i.e. Nami, Sona, Lulu) have become less popular and peeling supports (i.e. Braum, Janna) and engage supports (i.e. Leona, Thresh) became more popular. In addition, lane bullies such as Draven, Graves, Corki, and Lucian aren't as common as they previously were.

Trundle's in a similar position if I recall correctly; he works quite well against tanks, but he is vulnerable to CC (in this case, being kited) so too many tanks on the enemy team can screw him over. He's seems to be much better against a lone tank since his ultimate is single-target.

DreadlocksJul 27, 20152 votes

Basically, one newb sees sm1 cry about it on the boards, plays vs the champion being complained about loses to that champion, hops on the ban wagon and complains with them. Same thing happened with Zed, Leblanc and Riven.

Shadow GilgameshJul 27, 20152 votes

Probably because when it WAS the tank meta it made sense for Vayne to be played so often and succeed because it literally WAS complaining that the "anti-tank" ADC was shredding tanks.

Now that teams are starting to balance out in terms of rolls and it's not 3 tanks and 2 carries anymore, it's become quite obvious that Vayne isn't so much the "anti tank" as the "I got my core item and hit 6, I cannot be dueled by anyone" ADC.

ShogunaiJul 27, 20151 votes

Complaining about Vayne, is this still a thing?

Loken StoneheartJul 27, 20151 votes

Because Vayne is WEAK against a meta with numerous tanks. She doesn't have the range to deal with them-- She'll get CC locked and deleted by the two carries on the enemy team if she tries to go toe-to-toe with two CC machines.

Now, people are favoring more damage champs once again, and also giving her time to build up. For instance, the jungler might get devourer-- giving Vayne a free pass for like 20 minutes to farm without jungle pressure.

There has been a meta shift that favors her, to an extent. I still don't think she's anywhere near broken, but its why you're seeing complaints again.

ModKnightsKemplarJul 27, 20151 votes

Well, the forum posts now are just late. No other way to slice it.

Also, posts get upvoted and downvoted based on tone and content as much as anything else. Two threads that claim Vayne is OP can be vastly different from each other.

Troy242621Jul 27, 20151 votes

Why she's hated:

Very safe (Condemn, Tumble, Stealth, always builds Bork which she synergizes with)
Duels extremely well, making it hard to stomp her, or duel her unless considerably ahead
Scales incredibly hard, so you are obligated to win lane just to go even.
Was made back in a time when "Crush them pre-6" was considered legitimate counterplay
Has a toxic playerbase that tells you that you were outplayed
Scales off of your defensive stats, making it hard to counter-build her

These all synergize ironically. She scales incredibly hard and it's hard to counterbuild her, so she will inevitably be a monster provided she gets the right items. You then must stop her from getting them. However, everything in her kit works to try and prevent you from stopping her, due to her insane safety and duel potential. Screw up once, and a good Vayne will punish you unfathomably hard. Vayne screws up? As long as she plays it safe, she'll scale it off.

Nobody likes a champion that is extremely annoying, very strong and insanely difficult to punish. As soon as she's picked, you have to play HER game. The VAYNE game. Keep her behind then win before she scales back. This is why she is hated, in my humble opinion.

Also, it's not just a fluke thing that is just a hatred of the month. She had a period of FotM+Hatred in S3, right before she ate some nerfs. I also remember complaints being raised in S4. She's just annoying, and when she is annoying and strong at the same time, you get a surge of resentment.

That is why she has this cyclical FotM+Hatred thing going on, I think. Just my opinion on it.

Loken StoneheartJul 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Why she's hated:

Very safe (Condemn, Tumble, Stealth, always builds Bork which she synergizes with)

Duels extremely well, making it hard to stomp her, or duel her unless considerably ahead

Scales incredibly hard, so you are obligated to win lane just to go even.

Was made back in a time when "Crush them pre-6" was considered legitimate counterplay

Has a toxic playerbase that tells you that you were outplayed

Scales off of your defensive stats, making it hard to counter-build her

These all synergize ironically. She scales incredibly hard and it's hard to counterbuild her, so she will inevitably be a monster provided she gets the right items. You then must stop her from getting them. However, everything in her kit works to try and prevent you from stopping her, due to her insane safety and duel potential. Screw up once, and a good Vayne will punish you unfathomably hard. Vayne screws up? As long as she plays it safe, she'll scale it off.

Nobody likes a champion that is extremely annoying, very strong and insanely difficult to punish. As soon as she's picked, you have to play HER game. The VAYNE game. Keep her behind then win before she scales back. This is why she is hated, in my humble opinion.

Also, it's not just a fluke thing that is just a hatred of the month. She had a period of FotM+Hatred in S3, right before she ate some nerfs. I also remember complaints being raised in S4. She's just annoying, and when she is annoying and strong at the same time, you get a surge of resentment.

That is why she has this cyclical FotM+Hatred thing going on, I think. Just my opinion on it.

I think people just forget that since trinkets came out, Vayne has no defense mechanism. Really, building upgraded red, or yellow into pink ruins her. Her tumble is awkward in that it's not good for escapes-- she has to AA to get it the CD to start ticking, which requires stepping back into like 500 range death-zone. Her Condemn is a fairly long CD, like most escapes. Her stealth should be a non-factor against a competent team.

The tried and true obnoxious part of her kit is her W, which still has enough counterplay and counter-building. Build attack speed slows (both of which are armor, that mitigate the rest of her damage), and interrupt her attack chaining. She has to hit you three times, forcing her to address another champion is counterplay. Her low range makes her fairly easy to pick off if she ever tries to chase into a teamfight to get the last procs, or to engage on her while shes fighting you.

In all truth of the matter, she isn't that bad.

Monsta MooJul 27, 20151 votes

Times change

tooomineJul 27, 20151 votes

IMO, she's pretty gimped compared to everyone else.

I wonder, though, if the answer to your question is that there is a group of people (i'd wager fnatic execs) who are serruptitiously trying to get the game balanced in their favor for worlds.

ZhuganJul 27, 20151 votes

You gotta understand two things.

The forums can hate on no more than like 5 champions or a single type of champion at any given time.
At the time lane bully ADCs were a lot better, which means that a short range hypercarry with a relatively bad early game may be good against the tanks but is bad against their direction competition.