Why is Tahm Allowed to Stun and Devour?

doiminat0r3600·Jan 9, 2016·69 votes·3,989 views

His passive only should apply once. Otherwise, there is no counterplay. Make him choose rito.

116 Comments

Stand Alone WolfJan 9, 201617 votes

The same reason Blitzcrank can pull, knock-up, & silence. The same reason Alistar can Knock-up, push, & heal allies, & Minions. Tahm has a stun, & devour, (Which slows him if an enemy is consumed) & you're disliking that he has two of these things when there are other supports/top champs with so much more into their kits/passives? This is League of Legends. Just about every champ is OP in their own way. It's just that some are above OP Cough Cough Yasuo Cough I only hope you aren't focusing him, since he's not really a prob once the rest of the team's been picked off. only person I can think of who could do a 1v5 no help full bars is. . . well. . . . I don't even think Yas could. (Please don't prove me wrong)

Weeb GuardianJan 9, 20165 votes

U know what actually would fix A LOT about tahm? Remove the fcking bonus movement speed upon consuming an ally, MAKE TAHM THE MEATSHIELD, not the 'hurr durr i run away with bonus movement speed while consuming something which weights way too much'

His base damage upon devouring an enemy also simply is INSANE, like rly, wtf is that?

I still haven't seen someone outplaying tahm top, for the simply reason that his base damage is too damn high, the other day i saw a tahm winning from a frigging garen, who by the way still is the way too fast and way too damaging full tank juggernaut, if tahm can outplay that sht by just devouring and tongue lashing i'm simply done, and the 2 frigging healthbars aren't helping either.

Itadaki SeiekiJan 9, 201617 votes

They. They did. o_o Just last patch.

REMOVED: Bonus movement speed while moving away from enemy champions while holding an ally.

Weeb GuardianJan 9, 20163 votes

Wait whut? I always read patch notes... Seems like i missed that...

But still, the issue on the base damage + utility still exists, i'm glad they removed the movement speed buff, this explains why i haven't seen support tahm for a while, only top now xD

But k, riot should make it that a champion stunned by your q either or consumed either should remove the stacks (or do -1 stack), or make the stunned or consumed champ immune to the other effeft for let's say... 3 seconds? Isn't that bad, is it now?

Itadaki SeiekiJan 9, 20163 votes

Eh. Support Tahm exists still, I have a good friend who does it!

Only problem is that EVERYONE prefers him top because of his damage that can do.

Kind of like Blitz. Designed to be top lane bruiser, but was shoved into support because of his kit.

MaterisnaJan 10, 20161 votes

I think they should add something like: The more an ally has HP The slower would Tahm's move speed be when devouring an ally But thats just a suggestion

MunchCrunchLunchJan 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stand Alone Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EIejHR49,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-01-09T05:48:13.060+0000)

The same reason can pull, knock-up, & silence. The same reason can Knock-up, push, & heal allies, & Minions. Tahm has a stun, & devour, (Which slows him if an enemy is consumed) & you're disliking that he has two of these things when there are other supports/top champs with so much more into their kits/passives? This is League of Legends. Just about every champ is OP in their own way. It's just that some are above OP Cough Cough Yasuo Cough I only hope you aren't focusing him, since he's not really a prob once the rest of the team's been picked off. only person I can think of who could do a 1v5 no help full bars is. . . well. . . . I don't even think Yas could. (Please don't prove me wrong)

that has nothing to do with it. its a passive that should consume when you use it. imagine if vayne silver bolts mark just stayed there for like 5 seconds and all her attacks counter as % max health true damage. thats a fair comparison now.

Stand Alone WolfJan 13, 20161 votes

If anything it helps me greatly that I'm able to stun my opponent so I can consume them. ugh, Udyr Kalista, & any other champ that's quick on their feet are good examples. Seeing as I'm not a good support, & only use Tahm for top, & jungle, making him less useful by removing the stacks after I devour, or lash him would make it a bit more difficult for me. Maybe if I was support, I could see how it would be a bit op, but he's useful in more than one lane.

Little Stick ManJan 9, 20166 votes

if when he used his stun or devour it consumed the stacks it would be tolerable at least

xSleepyJan 9, 201610 votes

actually devour consumes the stacks, he can't insta stun after he spits them out

Trash MammaIJan 9, 20165 votes

item 3140 item 1321 item 3102

doiminat0r3600Jan 9, 20167 votes

Yes because a insert squishy AP here would buy this.

Trash MammaIJan 9, 20166 votes

That's your own fault for refusing to counterbuild because "it's not damages"

WoonStruckJan 9, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Simple Tora,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EIejHR49,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-09T06:22:40.495+0000)

That's your own fault for refusing to counterbuild because "it's not damages"

Versus a champion that doesn't have to choose in order to deal damage... right. He gets much higher bonus value out of the hp and resists he doesn't have to choose over anything else because tank stats are 100% completely optimal on him due to his shield's interaction with them, as well as the ult passive giving him a lot of free damage.

Tahm doesn't have to choose at any point in the game. The only choice is whether you decide to be an idiot and 1v5 or not.

Trash MammaIJan 9, 20163 votes

This thread was about his stun and devour. I stated 3 of many options on how to counter said abilities, now you're talking about his E and ult passive?

What information exactly are you trying to find out? How to counter this abilities, why a tank is tanky? How to buy MR and reduce magical damage?

WoonStruckJan 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Simple Tora,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EIejHR49,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-09T08:42:49.100+0000)

This thread was about his stun and devour. I stated 3 of many options on how to counter said abilities, now you're talking about his E and ult passive?

What information exactly are you trying to find out? How to counter this abilities, why a tank is tanky? How to buy MR and reduce magical damage?

The Tenacity on Merc Treads is so minor now that only tanks can make effective use of them. They won't make you live in circumstances you wouldn't have without them as a squishy.

Quicksilver has a very long CD relative to how easy it is for Tahm to stack his passive with Q. That alone is trouble for anyone (not just squishies), before even acknowledging devour. The payout you get for purchasing it vs him is not worth what you're spending unless you're an extremely high-priority target for Tahm, and that's only because it'll get you out of devour and possibly out alive (but still nowhere near certain).

Banshees, while working well for mitigating his impact as a bruiser/tank, does very little for squishies, since it only blocks a single spell, which is easy to counteract. As a squishy, its cost sets behind your damage significantly for a period, especially since it'd most likely be needed mid-game. Despite that, its the most logical option you gave, since it prevents you from being bursted by tahm alone, considering the HP and high MR.

But besides all that, they don't counter his abilities. Not in the slightest. They're a minor setback at most. Maybe if Quicksilver also negated the damage devour does it could be considered a counter, but at the moment, nope.

Also, you never addressed why he should be allowed to stun and devour.

Trash MammaIJan 9, 20163 votes

Because he's a tank? Tanks are full of CC? cough Shen cough jokes aside

QSS gets you instantly out of his mouth without taking damage (it is also an mr item js) Banshee reduces his damage and prevents him from devouring Merc treads again, is mr + tenacity to reduce the duration of his CC. Mikael's is another option Zhonya is an option

I've yet to ever find tahm to be an issue to play with or against. While one thing I could say is he could probably use heavier mana cost that's about all. He's perfectly fine, ill agree he's annoying at some points, but all in all he's fine.

AninLegions777Jan 9, 20163 votes

Wait, are you trying to say he isn't OP? Cos that would be surprising.

Shen is full of CC? Lool. One CC ability isn't "full of CC". QSS gets you out yes but then he applies 3 more stacks and stuns you until his devour is up. Also, any champ that forces you to build more defensive items than required is unhealthy for the game.

Trash MammaIJan 9, 20163 votes

The shen thing was sarcasm I thought it'd be easy to tell lol

Also, any champ that forces you to build more defensive items than required is unhealthy for the game.

My saltiness aside, no, I don't find him OP because i've never had a reason to consider him OP. Strong? Yes. OP? No.

AninLegions777Jan 9, 20163 votes

Well now it is. :P

Riven? She can be shut down so easily. All it takes is one morgana bind and she's gone. Tahm can lose up to 95% of his HP, Shield and game another WHILE dealing %max hp dmg. That's OP to me. But pray do tell, who do you consider OP?

Trash MammaIJan 9, 20163 votes

I don't consider anybody OP, I consider some people overtuned/overloaded kit wise because they have too much in it without lacking enough. That doesn't necessarily make them OP though.

Going back to Riven for example, I consider her kit overloaded as shit, Doesn't make her "OP" but it sure as hell doesn't mean she's balanced

Heckin SupportJan 9, 201611 votes

[{quoted}](name=Simple Tora,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EIejHR49,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-01-09T03:36:52.480+0000)

Merc treads are a joke now...

Silents429Jan 9, 20165 votes

Why?

Tenacity is still there and just as valuable as ever.

WoonStruckJan 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Why?

Tenacity is still there and just as valuable as ever.

Tenacity is a 'critical mass' stat. The less of it you have, the less useful it is. Anything under ~40% reduction is essentially worthless, and that's unreachable for the majority of the cast now.

People only buy Mercs for MR now, outside of tanks, who can actually live through CC...but they're still only buying it for the MR because the tenacity is essentially unnoticeable.

Silents429Jan 9, 20162 votes

You never got more then 40% originally anyway, You get 35% total with the boots and mastery.

And 20% reduction to CC is actually the difference between getting another basic attack or two on your target or not.

TotalJerkJan 9, 20162 votes

20% reduction is hard to even notice.

TotalJerkJan 9, 20168 votes

Buying Tenacity against Tahm Kench is stupid. It doesn't reduce devour and he'll still have time after the stun to close the gap and eat you. Also if you spellshield or QSS the Q stun, he'll still just eat you. it's a terrible idea to buy that shit against champions that can chain CC.

BottleCapsterJan 9, 20167 votes

Its really silly that Devour doesn't go on cooldown on Spellshields

Raid Boss MordeJan 10, 20162 votes

Actually, building tenacity against Tahm isn't bad at all. Merc Treads reduce ALL of Tahm's damage. The tenacity part will lower the duration of his slow AND stun.

IcyPepperJan 9, 20165 votes

So basically the Braum passive treatment.

Which I think is fair.

Tik115Jan 9, 20164 votes

"We feel it's ok given Tahms lack of sticking power"

Is Riots responce

In all seriousness the passive SHOULD be consumed when he Q stuns somebody, it means a Tahm has to choose between getting a stun off and hoping ether he can reapply the stacks or the team jumps the target or hoping his move speed is enough to get him close enough to W

JorenciceJan 12, 20161 votes

So he should have to HOPE he won't be completely useless.....

5050BSJan 9, 20163 votes

TahmKench Nasus Volibear DrMundo Alistar Chogath Shen

Are all Broken right now. The design of allowing a champ to build nothing but Def and get TONS of Offense is stupid and BAD design. The same goes the other way.

EVERY champ needs to have to build DEF to be tanky or if Tanky is build into the champ they cant have offense built in. For health of the game they have to get rid of this stupid mechanic but they never will because of LCS replays.

Weeb GuardianJan 9, 20164 votes

Nasus is by far the one who fits the description the most in there... Altho it doesn't have a thing to do with lcs.

Any nasus with a bit of brains will go tank and proceed to nuke because 'meh stacks'.

And then you've got other lanes going: WTF U LET NASUS STACK, U IDIOT

Well fun fact, it doesn't matter what you do, susan will get stacks, and WILL nuke you...

Seeing that champ simply makes me sick, as i know that, if the game stretches to 30 minutes or more, you'll have to be at least 3 champs vs nasus solo in order to be able to kill him without dieing...

Itadaki SeiekiJan 9, 20163 votes

Yeah but Nasus has no gapcloser.

For instance, imagine if it was Darius who could stack his Decimate damage of how many minions it'd kill.

He'd be permabanned because his E exists.

Nasus? Pfft. Kite him and use escapes to get away from Wither and kill him as fast as you can.

Any smart Nasus will realize wait until the carry has no more escape then go in on them. That's the plan for his damage in and after teamfights.

RyzeReworkJan 9, 20162 votes

Wither is a gap closer lol

SeenanJan 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Godlike Jungle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EIejHR49,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-09T15:24:53.369+0000)

Wither is a gap closer lol

I tend to max W second cause lower cds = Wither up every ~7 seconds with how I build. Perma-wither hey?

WoonStruckJan 9, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I tend to max W second cause lower cds = Wither up every ~7 seconds with how I build. Perma-wither hey?

lolno.

You max E second because it contributes to burst. Wither costs too much mana to spam, and 1 point in it inhibits people enough during laning that they'll hardly touch you.

If you max Wither second, you're denying yourself kills on anyone cocky enough to engage 1v1 on your mid-game when you have some CDR.

AoE armor reduction is huge for teamfights. Under no circumstances should you be maxing W first unless the enemy carry is fed.

Only Play DariusJan 9, 20162 votes

Proceed to max E and run out of mana because you just made it more expensive than most ult's in the game

TheProAndrewJan 12, 20161 votes

ya for sure u can jump walls with wither

RyzeReworkJan 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

ya for sure u can jump walls with wither

you cant jump walls with a blitz pull but its a gap closer

Only Play DariusJan 9, 20162 votes

And anyone with half a brain will zone Nasus early game and/or roam to other lanes and snow ball the game while Nasus is getting "meh stacks". Not to mention how useless he is in teamfights if anyone is smart enough to cleanse wither.

Of all the juggernaut type champions, Nasus is the most balanceable and well designed. I admit that Nasus can be toxic as hell but there are far worse champions than him, and he is certainly not overpowered

Big LincolnJan 9, 20162 votes

don't get 3 stacks and he can't do either, kek

doiminat0r3600Jan 9, 20164 votes

Good advice! Maybe I should just uninstall now because I cant avoid Auto Attacks and a Q that has the pixel width of a blitz hook and a slow of a level 5 Janna W. Maybe I should just quit because of Tahm's passive doing a lot of damage to me. Maybe the problem isnt the players, its the champion.